889 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

Well, yeah, I was talking about an independent CE state That's why I told Master Warder Z that the "immortality" thing wouldn't be the reason the humans would be kicked out from the Dales if independence happened, but all the history of abuses from the human overlords to their elven subjects. So, yes, City Elves.

 

The idea that Dalish elves and City elves will reach a miraculous understanding and live together in harmony, with the Dalish probably leading their brethren to pagan enlightment is naive at best. Not completely impossible, since stranger things have happened in real life (not to say in fictionland), but yes, very far-fetched.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

Pants. Takes a deep breath.

 

I would say the city elves should stay in human lands. The dalish can have their... independent state.

 

Chuckles.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, the simple truth is the City Elves know much more about human customs and line f thinking than the Dalish so they would be better suited for leadership since they know how the neighboring nations think. 

[wcholcombe]

I don't think its that far-fetched. I mean there is a cultural difference between them but if there is going to be an Elven nation then who'd better to lead than the Dalish? They have as much as lore as possible in case a new nation is to be started and judging from how elves at alieanage acted when they saw Marethari and how those in Amranthine acted when they saw Velanna I say city elves would let Dalish lead them. They were in awe and respected the Dalish. Many in fact want to join the Dalish but think its just a myth.

 

So far with current evidence the city elves respect the Dalish.

In Masked Empire, the elf who appears dalish says that some if not most CEs would kill him if they new what he was.  Also, the CEs are Andrastian and have been, it isn't like they would be crazy about magic.

 

Also, they have been seperate cultures for what 500-600 years?  The CEs view the Dalish as savages and the Dalish view the CEs as traitors.

[Lulupab]

In Masked Empire, the elf who appears dalish says that some if not most CEs would kill him if they new what he was.  Also, the CEs are Andrastian and have been, it isn't like they would be crazy about magic.

 

Also, they have been seperate cultures for what 500-600 years?  The CEs view the Dalish as savages and the Dalish view the CEs as traitors.

 

And you claim this based on what? The two in-game cut scenes show that the CE are in awe and respect of the Dalish. I haven't read preview of masked empire however even if what you said is true it only applies to CE from Orlais. Because the Dalish are easily recognized because of their tattoos and so far we have seen them among city elves living quite easily. The easiest examples are Merril and Arrianne, Feynriel's mother.

[LobselVith8]

I don't think its that far-fetched. I mean there is a cultural difference between them but if there is going to be an Elven nation then who'd better to lead than the Dalish? They have as much as lore as possible in case a new nation is to be started and judging from how elves at alieanage acted when they saw Marethari and how those in Amranthine acted when they saw Velanna I say city elves would let Dalish lead them. They were in awe and respected the Dalish. Many in fact want to join the Dalish but think its just a myth.

So far with current evidence the city elves respect the Dalish.

I hope that helping the Dalish establish their own homeland is a possibility. I really want my elven Inquisitor to make that long sought after dream a reality.

Although I can see the culture clash issues in Dalish living alongside Andrastian elves who adhere to their faith, given how the Andrastian faith preaches that the Maker won't return until the Chant is sung from the four corners of the world.

[Lulupab]

 

Well, the simple truth is the City Elves know much more about human customs and line f thinking than the Dalish so they would be better suited for leadership since they know how the neighboring nations think. 

 

 

Yeah... If we are talking about a human nation with short people and pointy ears. Only Dalish know the elven ways now. There would be nothing elven in a CE nation except only people living in it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah... If we are talking about a human nation with short people and pointy ears. Only Dalish know the elven ways now. There would be nothing elven in a CE nation except only people living in it.

At least they'd have a nation instead of being stuck as vagrants.

[LobselVith8]

And you claim this based on what? The two in-game cut scenes show that the CE are in awe and respect of the Dalish. I haven't read preview of masked empire however even if what you said is true it only applies to CE from Orlais. Because the Dalish are easily recognized because of their tattoos and so far we have seen them among city elves living quite easily. The easiest examples are Merril and Arrianne, Feynriel's mother.

I think the conversion of some of the Kirkwall elves to the Qun demonstrates that some of them are eager for a better opportunity than what they've been born into.

[Xilizhra]

While it's true that there would be a culture clash between Dalish and city elves, elven solidarity would be a tremendous asset to establishing an elven state. Practically indispensable, I would see it. If nothing else, we should set about healing the rift as soon as possible; Dalish ambassadors sneaking into Alienages to distribute information might be a good start.

[wcholcombe]

And you claim this based on what? The two in-game cut scenes show that the CE are in awe and respect of the Dalish. I haven't read preview of masked empire however even if what you said is true it only applies to CE from Orlais. Because the Dalish are easily recognized because of their tattoos and so far we have seen them among city elves living quite easily. The easiest examples are Merril and Arrianne, Feynriel's mother.

Wiki:

 

The Dalish are known to refer to their city cousins as "flat ears,"^[21] some of them believing the city elves are no more than "pets" for humans in need of cultural education,^[22] and hence are human in spirit if not body.^[23] giving them a reputation of being haughty and condescending.^[24] In return, their urban kin view them as an enigmatic myth: in the same light humans do, as bandits or heathens, or else as noble wood elves.^[25]

 

^{Plus, I do believe that some of the interactions in the city elf origin were not the most positive towards opinions of the dalish.}

[The Elder King]

Yeah... If we are talking about a human nation with short people and pointy ears. Only Dalish know the elven ways now. There would be nothing elven in a CE nation except only people living in it.

Hanakos point has nothing to do with it. The elves can't live in a free state if the relationship with humans are hostile, becuase the latter could end up on conquering the former again due to their superior numbers and power. The CE might be better in dealing with the humans than the dalish, since the latter might (and underline might) not be able to establish good relationship with humans.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hanakos point has nothing to do with it. The elves can't live in a free state if the relationship with humans are hostile, becuase the latter could end up on conquering the former again due to their superior numbers and power. The CE might be better in dealing with the humans than the dalish, since the latter might (and underline might) not be able to establish good relationship with humans.

Thank you. That's what I meant. The Dalish can handle the more spiritual side while the city Elves handle the more political side. 

[Lulupab]

I hope that helping the Dalish establish their own homeland is a possibility. I really want my elven Inquisitor to make that long sought after dream a reality.

Although I can see the culture clash issues in Dalish living alongside Andrastian elves who adhere to their faith, given how the Andrastian faith preaches that the Maker won't return until the Chant is sung from the four corners of the world.

Living as a Dalish is harder than living as city elf. That's how I see it. I think that is also why CE only join the Dalish casually. If there was to be an elven nation where they can be first class citizens I think its safe the assume half the CE population would join the Dalish in a heartbeat. I mean tell me a reason compelling them not to. There is none
 

I think the conversion of some of the Kirkwall elves to the Qun demonstrates that some of them are eager for a better opportunity than what they've been born into.

Yeah, that was the point I was referring to above. Many CE will join the Dalish if the opportunity rises.

[Master Warder Z_]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

 

Dragon Ages needs a valley of the Flowers.

[Lulupab]

Wiki:
 
The Dalish are known to refer to their city cousins as "flat ears,"^%5B21%5D some of them believing the city elves are no more than "pets" for humans in need of cultural education,^%5B22%5D and hence are human in spirit if not body.^%5B23%5D giving them a reputation of being haughty and condescending.^%5B24%5D In return, their urban kin view them as an enigmatic myth: in the same light humans do, as bandits or heathens, or else as noble wood elves.<sup>%5B25%5D


 
Plus, I do believe that some of the interactions in the city elf origin were not the most positive towards opinions of the dalish.</sup>

So the CEs have a mixed opinion of the Dalish. But as I said there is evidence suggesting that at least some CE are in awe and respect of the Dalish. Don't you think they would give up and join Dalish if the opportunity rises to have a nation? The Dalish are clearly more superior in art of war as the CE are forbidden to handle a weapon. How many do you think would join? Half? more? less?

[Lulupab]

Thank you. That's what I meant. The Dalish can handle the more spiritual side while the city Elves handle the more political side. 

 

The CE also don't know rat's ass about military. The CE can be ambassadors but that's all they can be. Really.

[Master Warder Z_]

So the CEs have a mixed opinion of the Dalish. But as I said there is evidence suggesting that at least some CE are in awe and respect of the Dalish. Don't you think they would give up and join Dalish if the opportunity rises to have a nation? The Dalish are clearly more superior in art of war as the CE are forbidden to handle a weapon. How many do you think would join? Half? more? less?

 

Zevran i think paints a pretty accurate picture of going from living within a thriving Human city to living in the forests as a vagrant.

 

You go back because...Life isn't easy or guaranteed there, even less so then in an alienage.

[Master Warder Z_]

The CE also don't know rat's ass about military. The CE can be ambassadors but that's all they can be. Really.

 

And the Dalish can only be hostile isolationists, because that's all they can be. Really.

[Lulupab]

Zevran i think paints a pretty accurate picture of going from living within a thriving Human city to living in the forests as a vagrant.
 
You go back because...Life isn't easy or guaranteed there, even less so then in an alienage.

There are some instances we see that a CE joins the Dalish. Why they are not an accurate picture? 
 

And the Dalish can only be hostile isolationists, because that's all they can be. Really.

"In time, the human empires will crumble. We have seen it happen countless times. Until then, we wait, we keep to the wild border lands, we raise halla and build aravels and present a moving target to the humans around us. We try to keep hold of the old ways, to relearn what was forgotten.” - Gisharel, Keeper of the Ralaferin Clan

 

Human nations are more than crumbling right now and it warmth my heart knowing Orlais is in its weakest form since its very existence.

[wcholcombe]

So the CEs have a mixed opinion of the Dalish. But as I said there is evidence suggesting that at least some CE are in awe and respect of the Dalish. Don't you think they would give up and join Dalish if the opportunity rises to have a nation? The Dalish are clearly more superior in art of war as the CE are forbidden to handle a weapon. How many do you think would join? Half? more? less?

Never denied that, I just don't see the two cultures mixing well. The CEs are used to living in cities, the Dalish in camps and wagons.  CEs are andrastian and Dalish aren't.  If CE life is easier than Dalish, they are going to want tot keep their easy CE life and won't be in a hurry to join Dalish.

 

Plus, principally there will be two distinct groups wanting control and authority.  There will be the CEs who want to be in control-the Hahren for example and there will be the Keepers.  There will be natural conflicts and I just don't see in mass on a large scale two cultures that have been distinctly seperate for 500-600 years being able to mesh and cohabitate that easily.

[Master Warder Z_]

See that's the mindset that will see the Dalish fail time and again, Humanity as that Dwarf in Orzamar so eloquently put is without end. "There will be surfacers to trade with, there's no end to you." -Legnar

 

Kingdoms, Empires, they fail, but the species will always be there, and this isn't Pre Andraste Thedas, there will be new Civilizations to replace the fallen.

 

Happened in our own reality enough for me to view it as just the way of the world, continental stability will be upset, likely thousands or more will die, Nations and Ideologies will burn, But the species will rebuild.

[Lulupab]

Never denied that, I just don't see the two cultures mixing well. The CEs are used to living in cities, the Dalish in camps and wagons.  CEs are andrastian and Dalish aren't.  If CE life is easier than Dalish, they are going to want tot keep their easy CE life and won't be in a hurry to join Dalish.

 

Plus, principally there will be two distinct groups wanting control and authority.  There will be the CEs who want to be in control-the Hahren for example and there will be the Keepers.  There will be natural conflicts and I just don't see in mass on a large scale two cultures that have been distinctly seperate for 500-600 years being able to mesh and cohabitate that easily.

 

No one said it would be easy but only the Dalish are able to instigate such an act to have a Nation. At first around half of CE might join them and given time most of CE will too eventually. The Dalish are quite united while the CE are not. It will be the Dalish who will start something and CE will join them not the other way around. Depending on how things go the Dalish may let the CE to have a leader for themselves such as when Andraste allowed Shartan as one of her army leaders but it was she who made important decisions. 

[Lulupab]

See that's the mindset that will see the Dalish fail time and again, Humanity as that Dwarf in Orzamar so eloquently put is without end. "There will be surfacers to trade with, there's no end to you." -Legnar

 

Kingdoms, Empires, they fail, but the species will always be there, and this isn't Pre Andraste Thedas, there will be new Civilizations to replace the fallen.

 

Happened in our own reality enough for me to view it as just the way of the world, continental stability will be upset, likely thousands or more will die, Nations and Ideologies will burn, But the species will rebuild.

 

You assume Orlais = Humanity. No one cared about Orlais's initial defeat from Dales. Given right now that it has angered all of its neighbors such as Ferelden, Nevarra and Free marches I doubt anyone would care if Orlais lost Dales. The Dalish just need a strong leader to make the right decisions. If for example the Dalish aided a nation or the mages like they did with the blight then no one will care about Orlais losing Dales as Orlais either conquered and enslaved them (Ferelden) or tried to that (other neighbors). We simply don't know what's going to happen. Will there be a blight? will the Qunari invade? The Dalish might just settle in a land that all of its people have been obliterated.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And the Dalish can only be hostile isolationists, because that's all they can be. Really.

Soldiers can be trained a lot easier than ambassadors can. City Elves can learn to fight, but can the Dalish learn to tolerate humans?

[Lulupab]

Soldiers can be trained a lot easier than ambassadors can. City Elves can learn to fight, but can the Dalish learn to tolerate humans?

 

Some already do? Hence even Velanna can by the end events of Awakening.