Yeah... If we are talking about a human nation with short people and pointy ears. Only Dalish know the elven ways now. There would be nothing elven in a CE nation except only people living in it.
And? Elven history as the Dalish know it is a constant history of looking backwards at regular defeats. Maybe the short people with pointy ears should look forward at the future rather than cling to a romanticized victim-identity complex.
And? Elven history as the Dalish know it is a constant history of looking backwards at regular defeats. Maybe the short people with pointy ears should look forward at the future rather than cling to a romanticized victim-identity complex.
It's true that reconstruction is at least as vital as memory. However, there's no reason that this future needs to be Andrastian and at human sufferance.
And? Elven history as the Dalish know it is a constant history of looking backwards at regular defeats. Maybe the short people with pointy ears should look forward at the future rather than cling to a romanticized victim-identity complex.
The remaining citizens of Byzantine empire after its defeat thought it was a good idea too. Now go find a Byzantinian if you can. Surely they did not disappear into thin air, they just blended in too much and lost everything.
The point is its not "history" its everything defining them as elves and not just short humans. They will look forward at the future, as an elf.
It's true that reconstruction is at least as vital as memory. However, there's no reason that this future needs to be Andrastian and at human sufferance.
There's no reason it can't be Andrastian either or at human sufferance either.
The remaining citizens of Byzantine empire after its defeat thought it was a good idea too. Now go find a Byzantinian if you can. Surely they did not disappear into thin air, they just blended in too much and lost everything.
If by 'lost everything' you mean 'became part of something else.' Something arguably even greater, depending on the person and group in question: becoming a muslim, or a more cherished identity.
Mind you, it's rather bizaar to choose the Byzantines as a reference considering they never considered or called themselves such. If you asked any of them if they regretted it, they'd look at you funny.
The point is its not "history" its everything defining them as elves and not just short humans. They will look forward at the future, as an elf.
What if they don't want to be what you think an elf should be?
There's no reason it can't be Andrastian either or at human sufferance either.
I wouldn't consider either one helpful to the future of the elven nation and its citizens.
If by 'lost everything' you mean 'became part of something else.' Something arguably even greater, depending on the person and group in question: becoming a muslim, or a more cherished identity.
Mind you, it's rather bizaar to choose the Byzantines as a reference considering they never considered or called themselves such. If you asked any of them if they regretted it, they'd look at you funny.
What if they don't want to be what you think an elf should be?
It was just a general example, I don't think what they are called matters. Something quite valuable was lost and they failed to keep at least remnants from it.
And how do you claim you know what is good? The elves will most likely be in Inquisition and we'll see what happens then. But as we know the Inquisitor is Dalish only I doubt there is going to be any blending in with humanity. There might be alliances but the elves will be Dalish.
I wouldn't consider either one helpful to the future of the elven nation and its citizens.
Why does there need to be an elven nation? Or rather, why do the city elves need to be part of it? Right now they have more in common with humans than with the dalish.
It was just a general example, I don't think what they are called matters. Something quite valuable was lost and they failed to keep at least remnants from it.
And how do you claim you know what is good? The elves will most likely be in Inquisition and we'll see what happens then. But as we know the Inquisitor is Dalish only I doubt there is going to be any blending in with humanity. There might be alliances but the elves will be Dalish.
If an elf. The Inquisitor can also be human (likely Fereldan), a dwarf (likely an exile from Orzammar), or a Vashoth. Those are unlikely to care about the dalish and their culture.
Why does there need to be an elven nation? Or rather, why do the city elves need to be part of it? Right now they have more in common with humans than with the dalish.
Because the city elves keep getting pissed on, I thought. I mean, if they want to keep being such, they're free to do so, but I think many would want a chance for a better life elsewhere.
Because the city elves keep getting pissed on, I thought. I mean, if they want to keep being such, they're free to do so, but I think many would want a chance for a better life elsewhere.
Why not a better life right where they are? I don't see a lot of people suggesting a Mage Nation. Or a Commoner Nation. I don't like to use real life examples, but the idea that city elves should abandon their current homes and create their own country elsewhere is no different (and no less preposterous) than African Americans wanting to "go back" to Africa during the 20th century.
If an elf. The Inquisitor can also be human (likely Fereldan), a dwarf (likely an exile from Orzammar), or a Vashoth. Those are unlikely to care about the dalish and their culture.
I was talking about the choice will be present in the game. It won't be mandatory.
I wouldn't consider either one helpful to the future of the elven nation and its citizens.
What you consider helpful to the nature of an identity that they don't even necessarily want is irrelevant. What they consider important is.
Why not a better life right where they are? I don't see a lot of people suggesting a Mage Nation. Or a Commoner Nation. I don't like to use real life examples, but the idea that city elves should abandon their current homes and create their own country elsewhere is no different (and no less preposterous) than African Americans wanting to "go back" to Africa during the 20th century.
The Circle more or less is a mage nation, just one disseminated through different other nations. And I think it's more like said African-Americans wanting to do so during the 18th and 19th centuries (which quite a few actually did, founding the nation of Liberia).
What you consider helpful to the nature of an identity that they don't even necessarily want is irrelevant. What they consider important is.
Well, that's currently split between two groups.
If an elf. The Inquisitor can also be human (likely Fereldan), a dwarf (likely an exile from Orzammar), or a Vashoth. Those are unlikely to care about the dalish and their culture.
It was just a general example, I don't think what they are called matters. Something quite valuable was lost and they failed to keep at least remnants from it.
And other things were gained.
Considering the amount of animosity some organized religions and closely associated states with brutal practices and politics have gotten around in these forums, I also wonder how much actual regret there is now.
And how do you claim you know what is good?
In general? Life, empathy, and perspective. Here? I don't even claim it- I just raise that the City Elves might disagree.
Theirs is the more relevant opinion, I suspect.
The elves will most likely be in Inquisition and we'll see what happens then. But as we know the Inquisitor is Dalish only I doubt there is going to be any blending in with humanity. There might be alliances but the elves will be Dalish.
The player character elves will be Dalish. That is all that is implied, and that is all that must a result of it.
Well, that's currently split between two groups.
Only one of those groups, the city elves, being the rebelling faction.
Only one of those groups, the city elves, being the rebelling faction.
The Circle more or less is a mage nation, just one disseminated through different other nations. And I think it's more like said African-Americans wanting to do so during the 18th and 19th centuries (which quite a few actually did, founding the nation of Liberia).
Elves haven't had their own country for at least four seven hundred years. Four thousand, for a likely majority.
Well, that's currently split between two groups.
The only significant trait city elves and dalish share is race. People of the same race disagree with each other all the time.
My elven mage Warden cared about the casteless in Orzammar. I don't see why you need to be an elf to care about the elves.
I never said otherwise.
Elves haven't had their own country for at least
fourseven hundred years. Four thousand, for a likely majority.
The only significant trait city elves and dalish share is race. People of the same race disagree with each other all the time.
And? There's every reason to want their own, given how badly treated they are by humans.
And? There's every reason to want their own, given how badly treated they are by humans.
An Andrastian nation where they are can be their own.
Converting to yet another someone else's religion won't make them any more independent. Nor will pulling a repeat of Liberia if a small minority of them do decide to go out and dominate another people.
An Andrastian nation where they are can be their own.
Converting to yet another someone else's religion won't make them any more independent. Nor will pulling a repeat of Liberia if a small minority of them do decide to go out and dominate another people.
It won't make them less independent than what they are now, either.
And? There's every reason to want their own, given how badly treated they are by humans.
Elves are better off than most racial minorities I've ever heard about. There is no organized discrimination against them, no actual laws that place them below humans. Only racial friction. People have managed to accomplish more starting with less.
One thing is certain, in my opinion. Integration with humans will be a hell of a lot easier for city elves than integration with the dalish.
It won't make them less independent than what they are now, either.
Indeed. So advocating it on a grounds of it being somehow necessary to be themselves or free is silly.
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