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The Dales are still majority elven


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#76
LobselVith8

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What the hell happened? To check it properly I logged out, closed Amazon and tried it again. You're right, it doesn't appear anymore. Did they put the "look inside" down? Damn, I'm so glad I wrote it down before it was too late :(

 

Thanks for sharing it, then.

 

Or an ally, depending on how you look at it.

 

Spoiler



#77
Reznore57

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For some unknown reason , I can't read the preview on Amazon anymore . :wacko:

I liked Felassan (?) , the Dalish mage ...but it's a bit strange to read about a sarcastic and funny Dalish.

From what I've been reading , seems like things are pretty bad at Halamshiral for the city elves...

They don't have an official alienage , but it's all the same.

 

Wonder if we'll read something about Merrill , if the Dalish are now after the Eluvians?



#78
Shadow Fox

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It would suck for those that want to play an Elf because the Elven Inquisitor is required to be Dalish.

 

I would also hate to see another Merrill situation where one Dalish character is "good" because s/he's "not like other Dalish!"

 

It's getting OLD seeing Dalish as mostly or all antagonistic and intolerant when humans, dwarves, city elves, and even non-Qunari grey giants have been shown to have varying degrees of kindness, tolerance, acceptance of strangers, etc. Why are Dalish constantly portrayed as mostly intolerant bigots, extreme isolationists, and/or unpleasant all across the board?

Exactly this.



#79
wcholcombe

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What the hell happened? To check it properly I logged out, closed Amazon and tried it again. You're right, it doesn't appear anymore. Did they put the "look inside" down? Damn, I'm so glad I wrote it down before it was too late :(

 

 

Or an ally, depending on how you look at it.

I think he will be more,

Spoiler



#80
Mistic

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Thanks for sharing it, then.

 

 

Spoiler

 

No, I'm with wcholcombe. He sounded more like a sarcastic, I-don't-give-a-damn guy, more like Flemeth. I understood the bit about the plan to kill all humans as his way to point out how stupid it was.

 

But maybe I'm mistaken. It was just a preview, and for the look of it it seems they have taken it down.

 

Wonder if we'll read something about Merrill , if the Dalish are now after the Eluvians?

 

That would be interesting, wouldn't it? However, I'm afraid it will do more harm than good.



#81
LobselVith8

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We probably shouldn't succumb to rage... just yet. But bank the flames to prepare for the possibility of April 6...

 

That's true, Xil. I'm honestly hoping for more variety among the elves from the novel (since I've heard some positive things about the author from a few people), and an actual elven storyline and perspectives if there is a rebellion of some kind. I'd really hate it if an elven point of view was sidelined to being little more than a small 'B' plot in the Orlesian civil war.


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#82
wcholcombe

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It would suck for those that want to play an Elf because the Elven Inquisitor is required to be Dalish.

 

I would also hate to see another Merrill situation where one Dalish character is "good" because s/he's "not like other Dalish!"

 

It's getting OLD seeing Dalish as mostly or all antagonistic and intolerant when humans, dwarves, city elves, and even non-Qunari grey giants have been shown to have varying degrees of kindness, tolerance, acceptance of strangers, etc. Why are Dalish constantly portrayed as mostly intolerant bigots, extreme isolationists, and/or unpleasant all across the board?

Not arguing with why this could get old, but it is a possibility that that is their crutch/weakness as a race.  They want to be seperate and left alone.  It is one of the reasons put forth for their issues with the Orlesians is that the orlesians wouldn't leave them alone and just let them be.

 

Not arguing truth or fiction on that, but it could just be one of the primarty dalish traits that they are standoffish and antagonistic and not very friendly to outsiders.



#83
Xilizhra

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Not arguing with why this could get old, but it is a possibility that that is their crutch/weakness as a race.  They want to be seperate and left alone.  It is one of the reasons put forth for their issues with the Orlesians is that the orlesians wouldn't leave them alone and just let them be.

 

Not arguing truth or fiction on that, but it could just be one of the primarty dalish traits that they are standoffish and antagonistic and not very friendly to outsiders.

That's not the point. The point is that the minority group with divergent religious beliefs from the majority is being so treated so badly.



#84
Mistic

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That's true, Xil. I'm honestly hoping for more variety among the elves from the novel (since I've heard some positive things about the author from a few people), and an actual elven storyline and perspectives if there is a rebellion of some kind. I'd really hate it if an elven point of view was sidelined to being little more than a small 'B' plot in the Orlesian civil war.

 

The preview doesn't give much about the City Elves, but there seems to be whole chunks about them. That's another elven perspective, isn't it? Including the difference between those who live as servants of the nobility and those who live at Halamshiral.

 

And don't think of it as a B plot of the Orlesian Civil War. It's not the Orlesian Civil War, is the end of the world because of the Veil Tears. The Dalish quests in DA:O weren't a sidequest of the Fereldan Civil War, were they?



#85
wcholcombe

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For some unknown reason , I can't read the preview on Amazon anymore . :wacko:

I liked Felassan (?) , the Dalish mage ...but it's a bit strange to read about a sarcastic and funny Dalish.

From what I've been reading , seems like things are pretty bad at Halamshiral for the city elves...

They don't have an official alienage , but it's all the same.

 

Wonder if we'll read something about Merrill , if the Dalish are now after the Eluvians?


Thanks for sharing it, then.

 

 

Spoiler

well, I don't consider him dalish anymore.  He lives in Val Royeux it appears and mocks both the city elves and the dalish.  He is interesting and so far well written.



#86
Master Warder Z_

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It would suck for those that want to play an Elf because the Elven Inquisitor is required to be Dalish.

 

I would also hate to see another Merrill situation where one Dalish character is "good" because s/he's "not like other Dalish!"

 

It's getting OLD seeing Dalish as mostly or all antagonistic and intolerant when humans, dwarves, city elves, and even non-Qunari grey giants have been shown to have varying degrees of kindness, tolerance, acceptance of strangers, etc. Why are Dalish constantly portrayed as mostly intolerant bigots, extreme isolationists, and/or unpleasant all across the board?

 

Well then stop looking for anything else in a culture built on racial superiority, jingoism and propaganda.

 

._. I hate to say it, but the Dalish are the Dalish, You might find some that aren't xenophobic bandits with a predilection towards killing humans, but you will also be exposed to those who are.

 

So maybe the fact they are portrayed that way, it is because that is what the PC is meant to encounter there?


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#87
Master Warder Z_

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That's not the point. The point is that the minority group with divergent religious beliefs from the majority is being so treated so badly.

 

Because their antagonistic and standoffish to the majority ._.

 

It's North Korea.



#88
Xilizhra

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Well then stop looking for anything else in a culture built on racial superiority, jingoism and propaganda.

 

._. I hate to say it, but the Dalish are the Dalish, You might find some that aren't xenophobic bandits with a predilection towards killing humans, but you will also be exposed to those who are.

 

So maybe the fact they are portrayed that way, it is because that is what the PC is meant to encounter there?

Then hopefully we get exactly the same crack at the Orlesians.



#89
wcholcombe

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That's not the point. The point is that the minority group with divergent religious beliefs from the majority is being so treated so badly.

It isn't being treated badly from a narrative point of view if that is how they are written.  I can see ya'lls issue.  but from the begining the dalish have been presented as being standoffish and isolationist in an attempt to recover their old ways and reverse the quickening.

 

They can't be both friendly and cooperative with outsiders/non elves and also hope to regain their immortality at least in regards to how they believe they lost it.

 

I am just saying, as a group I can easily see and understand the Dalish not wanting anything to do with non dalish.


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#90
EmissaryofLies

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Because their antagonistic and standoffish to the majority ._.

 

It's North Korea.

 

Speaking of hyperbole...


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#91
The Elder King

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I have to say that based on what seems to happen, the dalish Inquisitor might not have that better consideration than a qunari PC.

#92
wcholcombe

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Then hopefully we get exactly the same crack at the Orlesians.

Why?  what reason do the orlesian's as an entire country made up of city elves, surface dwarves, and humans have to be standoffish?

 

Will we see some that are horrible human beings and slavers and abusive and everything else, yes.  But the entire country of Orlais isn't defined by that trait.

 

One of the primary things we know about Dalish is they want to be isolated.


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#93
Xilizhra

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It isn't being treated badly from a narrative point of view if that is how they are written.  I can see ya'lls issue.  but from the begining the dalish have been presented as being standoffish and isolationist in an attempt to recover their old ways and reverse the quickening.

 

They can't be both friendly and cooperative with outsiders/non elves and also hope to regain their immortality at least in regards to how they believe they lost it.

 

I am just saying, as a group I can easily see and understand the Dalish not wanting anything to do with non dalish.

This could be treated better and more evenhandedly; certainly by letting us get more of a Dalish perspective on events than this novel seems to be offering. And there's a difference between isolationist and genocidal.


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#94
Master Warder Z_

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Speaking of hyperbole...

 

Oh boohoo, i made use of it ONCE.

 

._.

 

When you can go four sentences with out mentioning genocide i will be impressed.

 

And that said it is a fairly accurate comparison, Junta work state and all :P



#95
Xilizhra

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Why?  what reason do the orlesian's as an entire country made up of city elves, surface dwarves, and humans have to be standoffish?

 

Will we see some that are horrible human beings and slavers and abusive and everything else, yes.  But the entire country of Orlais isn't defined by that trait.

 

One of the primary things we know about Dalish is they want to be isolated.

It's exactly as much of a cultural trait as the Dalish wanting that much revenge on humans. Moreso, in fact.



#96
EmissaryofLies

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Oh boohoo, i made use of it ONCE.

 

._.

 

When you can go four sentences with out mentioning genocide i will be impressed.

 

And that said it is a fairly accurate comparison, Junta work state and all :P

 

Hey hey hey! It's Annulment, get it right! :lol:



#97
wcholcombe

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This could be treated better and more evenhandedly; certainly by letting us get more of a Dalish perspective on events than this novel seems to be offering. And there's a difference between isolationist and genocidal.

I don't think they have been promoted as genocidal?  It would have been nice to have seen more of them in DAO and a more intelligent showing of them in DA2, and maybe being a Dalish Inquisitor will provide that, but it isn't like you are going to encounter multiple large populations of dalish like you do the other races.

 

Well, we have actually had less exposure to dwarven society I think, but there are vastly more codex entries about the dwarves.



#98
LobselVith8

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Well then stop looking for anything else in a culture built on racial superiority, jingoism and propaganda.

 

The Dalish cultural and religious beliefs aren't built on that.

 

._. I hate to say it, but the Dalish are the Dalish, You might find some that aren't xenophobic bandits with a predilection towards killing humans, but you will also be exposed to those who are.

 

So maybe the fact they are portrayed that way, it is because that is what the PC is meant to encounter there?

 

You seem to miss the simple fact that the clans all differ from one another, which was a point that was made as early as Origins, when Zevran pointed out that the Dalish in Antiva City were much different than their Ferelden counterparts. The clans aren't all supposed to be the same; they are different from one another.


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#99
Xilizhra

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I don't think they have been promoted as genocidal?  It would have been nice to have seen more of them in DAO and a more intelligent showing of them in DA2, and maybe being a Dalish Inquisitor will provide that, but it isn't like you are going to encounter multiple large populations of dalish like you do the other races.

 

Well, we have actually had less exposure to dwarven society I think, but there are vastly more codex entries about the dwarves.

The whole "kill every human in Orlais and abandon the city elves" thing. But I'm beginning to become so exasperated that it's almost seeming appealing.



#100
wcholcombe

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It's exactly as much of a cultural trait as the Dalish wanting that much revenge on humans. Moreso, in fact.

The dalish don't have a natural culture trait of wanting revenge on humans.  I haven't seen that expressed in any of the games.  They want to be left alone and isolated yes. 

 

Sure you have some resentment against humans and hostility, but except for the Keeper in DAO, there is no actual pursuit of vengeance.


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