I don't give two flaming donkey shits about "warmth;" I care about them not being portrayed as brute antagonists.
They haven't been. They actually haven't been the antagonists at all.
They have been unfriendly and wanted to be left alone. I have never seen them as the enemy.
They haven't been. They actually haven't been the antagonists at all.
They have been unfriendly and wanted to be left alone. I have never seen them as the enemy.
This seems to change in this novel.
This seems to change in this novel.
Again, we don't know the context. For all we know a group of Chevaliers could have just killed half the clan and they think Celene is associated with them.
They also aren't antagonists, they just don't care about city elves, nor do they care about shem problems.
It's easy to forget with dwarves because we see a healthy, balanced representation of views from different characters we come across.
So... why isn't it the same with the Dalish?
Because it's the same. Orzammar nobles are not the only Dwarves around, the same Dalish are not the species, Elves are, and in the upcoming book we'll get different elven points of view.
I really should stop looking at spoilers.
Spoiler
I think we will see the Gathering and there will be many different clans there, but I hope people don't get surprised if many of them turn out to be as bigoted as the book's clan.
As for the conflict, I think it will be isolationism vs action, instead of war versus peace.
I said 'most', though the Chantry is shown in Thedas's history with negative traits.The Chantry is apparently being pushed as one without horrible negative traits. And the line about Bhelen isn't accurate either; enough of his supporters wanted to modify the caste system that Bhelen saying things like "no dwarf is without worth" was considered positive propaganda, in the Diamond Quarter no less.
As an aside, there are only two things I want to see of Orlais now. One being unlikely, but most appeasing to my currently enraged and id-dominated mind.
The other is even less likely, but would be utterly magnificent if the Dalish got it.
Again, we don't know the context. For all we know a group of Chevaliers could have just killed half the clan and they think Celene is associated with them.
They also aren't antagonists, they just don't care about city elves, nor do they care about shem problems.
The more rage expended here, the less that'll explode out if the novel actually proves it, while I'm prepared for it. But more signs of antagonism seem to be shown with that thing about Eluvians.
They haven't been. They actually haven't been the antagonists at all.
They have been unfriendly and wanted to be left alone. I have never seen them as the enemy.
I view them as a Neutral hostile, but a hostile none the less to Thedosian Stability and safety, They have a history of disrupting the balance of things.
But that isn't to say i wouldn't view the Qunari or Darkspawn as a far more pressing concern then the "Dalish".
The "Walkers" of the "Lonely" Path can sit in their illegitimate settlements and camps and simply rot there for all i care, there are important things to be done after all.
This seems to change in this novel.
We lack context. For what it seems, Celene was running from Gaspard's men. So she was, in a way, bringing conflict to the Dalish. Remember the beginning of the Dalish origin in DA:O? They didn't want to have anything to do with that conflict, and were choosing between leaving Celene to her doom, sending her to Gaspard to finish quickly or just killing her. There was no plan to invade the Dales and kill every human on sight, as far as the preview stated.
I said 'most', though the Chantry is shown in Thedas's history with negative traits.
As for the dwarves, the nobles might have less than humanitarian reasons to support the change of the caste system. But I honestly doubt that the system will be scrapped completely.
I doubt that Orlais would suffer that fate. Furthermore, Indont understand your actual rage over Orlais. Bioware didn't push Orlais' 'goodness' and the dalish's negative traits. Both factions are portrayed quite negatively.
"History" matters comparatively less right now. And it's one of the worst systems to whitewash in this manner.
Well, I do legitimately hate every cultural trait about Orlais that we've been exposed to, even without Bioware pushing for its "goodness." But I do find it highly annoying that the light it's been presented in is any better than, say, Tevinter, and resent the fact that we'll probably have to save it in DAI.
Be that as it may, one of the primary things about Dalish we learned in DAO was that they seek to regain their immortality by isolating themselves from non dalish while seeking to recover their lost heritage. It would make no sense for them now to start having warm friendly relations with populations they believe cost them their immortality.
We are just asking for the Dalish to be portrayed more even handed like the other groups have been.
We are just asking for the Dalish to be portrayed more even handed like the other groups have been.
And he is saying there are reasons in place within their own lore that prevent that for the most part.
I personally don't overly care, I like the Dwarves better 
We are just asking for the Dalish to be portrayed more even handed like the other groups have been.
But which groups? If you play your cards right, you can (almost) avoid having to kill any Dalish in DA:O, Awakening and DA2. That's more that can be said about templars, mages, casteless dwarves, Fereldans, city elves, etc. (of course, you can also end up wiping out two Dalish clans, but the option is still there). That they are rude to you and some of them are real jerks about their isolation doesn't make them villains. It just makes them unsympathetic, but there's no rule that says that persecuted marginalized minories have to be nice, friendly people for players to say "Ooooh, look at those poor elves, the other groups are so mean to them!".
So basically, there are a lot of elves in the dales, but none of them are really dalish per-say. That is rather interesting to note.
Also, something I am curious about. The chantry said that they forbade the elves to practice their old religion, but what about other aspects of elven culture that weren't tied into religion? Evidence suggest the chantry didn't mind the elves having their own culture as long as it didn't run in opposition to the chantry's religion. Also of note, is whether the study of history and religious artifacts was forbidden from the elves.
Wouldn't it be surprising if the elves in the dales worked with the chantry, and had amassed a large collection of elven artifacts, lore, and knowledge, for the sake of research, and the dalish this whole time had no clue because of their choice to live isolated and try to look into their own lore on their own, then agree to chantry help. I just think something like that would be a good plot point to explore, and a new light to be shed on the relationship between humans and elves and how both sides painted each other so wrongly over the years.
Fair enough."History" matters comparatively less right now. And it's one of the worst systems to whitewash in this manner.
Well, I do legitimately hate every cultural trait about Orlais that we've been exposed to, even without Bioware pushing for its "goodness." But I do find it highly annoying that the light it's been presented in is any better than, say, Tevinter, and resent the fact that we'll probably have to save it in DAI.
Guest_Faerunner_*
We are just asking for the Dalish to be portrayed more even handed like the other groups have been.
Seriously! I don't think that's too much to ask.
Fair enough.
There was never a doubt in my mind that Bioware would've let Orlais rot in this game. It would cause a massive unbalance of power, other wars in southern Thedas to weaken it (along with the other civil wars), that would lead to a massive advantage to the qunari. It took the alliance between the two Chantries to bring the qunari to an armistice, and it lead to the countries being bankrupt. In the above scenario Thedas would've been dominatore by the qunari.
But that would just make for an even more exciting scenario in the fourth game where a relatively small group would have to race to find some clever means of stopping a new qunari invasion.
But which groups? If you play your cards right, you can avoid having to kill any Dalish in DA:O, Awakening and DA2. That's more that can be said about templars, mages, casteless dwarves, Fereldans, city elves, etc. (of course, you can also end up wiping out two Dalish clans, but the option is still there). That they are rude to you and some of them are real jerks about their isolation doesn't make them villains.
Fereldens,Templars,Mages and dwarves to name a few.
It does however make them unsympathetic,unlikable,one note and boring however.
But that would just make for an even more exciting scenario in the fourth game where a relatively small group would have to race to find some clever means of stopping a new qunari invasion.
The current situation in Thedas would likely lead to great advantage for the qunari. I just don't think the in the above scenario there would be chances to stop them.
Then you make a way, as the overall plot of the fourth game.
Then you make a way, as the overall plot of the fourth game.
The current situation in Thedas would likely lead to great advantage for the qunari. I just don't think the in the above scenario there would be chances to stop them.
It took an alliance of Nations to defeat, given in this scenario there wouldn't be that once more and one of the larger players not being in the game at all, i don't think.
I'd prefer to avoid another ME3 type of plot twist.
It wouldn't be a Crucible, I think; more like finding an internal point of weakness in the qunari hierarchy. I personally like my idea where the entire Qun is a blood-magic-based hive mind, perhaps still run by the hidden spirit of Koslun.
Guest_Faerunner_*
Because we have only encountered two clans in the prior two games?
And those happened to fall into the bigoted extremist category.
And who wrote only two clans?
Who chose to portray two clans the same way instead of writing another clan, or portraying them differently to give a more balanced reference?
We could encounter two Dalish clans in DA:O. Instead of creating a third clan in DA2, BioWare chose to bring back one of the two clans we've already seen and make them exactly as friendly as the last one, only less tolerant and less kind.
Dwarves have only two kingdoms remaining, and we've only visited one so far. Instead of making it so the one city we've seen is filled with mostly all unpleasant, xenophobic, standoffish isolationists that the protagonist cannot like, BioWare chose to make the many dwarves within the one city we've seen varied, friendly, etc. If they can make many different dwarves with many different viewpoints and levels of friendliness, tolerance, acceptance of strangers, etc. They can do the same for Dalish.
All this talk of a qunari invasion, it's likely the qunari could also end up being weakened when having to deal with these fade tears or even their own unrest issues brewing up.
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