24 réponses à ce sujet

[efd731]

In my opinion is the lack of time spent with your companions/the emotional connection with them. I am not a completionist, yet I will complete every side quest available to me simply to drag out the time spent with the companions(hoping to prompt them to speak). Dragon age has such a wonderful setting, and even though I've loved all the main characters (except anders, whiny man child) I wish there was more of a chance to connect with them on the level of the characters from mass effect. It just seems like a time issue. Thoughts?

[ReadingRambo220]

In my opinion is the lack of time spent with your companions/the emotional connection with them. I am not a completionist, yet I will complete every side quest available to me simply to drag out the time spent with the companions(hoping to prompt them to speak). Dragon age has such a wonderful setting, and even though I've loved all the main characters (except anders, whiny man child) I wish there was more of a chance to connect with them on the level of the characters from mass effect. It just seems like a time issue. Thoughts?

I think it has to do with the fact that ME followed the protagonist through 3+ very lengthy games. It would be extremely difficult to condense all that character interaction into one game with all the companions. Each DA has focused on a new protag. I believe they made that a focus after following the trilogy arc with Shepard.


I'm not sure it's a flaw per se, rather a different focus and approach. I've enjoyed what time we are given with the DA characters. I think Bioware doesn't want to simply follow the same formula for all their IPs, and see nothing wrong with trying new directions in storytelling.

[Anvos]

Without a set protag it works that most companions are new and old ones are mostly side/background.  Would be kind of odd to have your love interest shared between Warden, Hawke, and Inquisitor.

[BabyFratelli]

Mass Effect shared lots of the same companions over three games without much of a change in setting. There're more opportunities to get attached to them because there's simply just more game. You spend more time with them, and as much as ME did let you choose how you treated them in each of those games you're put in the position of their Commander/captain/protector. Them being part of your crew from the get go might make you feel more attached to them because of the real life implications as well. The game's really good at making you feel a sense of responsibility. 

 

ME in general is more believable than Dragon Age because it's just a future version of our world, rather than an alternate fantasy version, so that might resonate with you more as well.

 

In Dragon Age, both games are kind of a happenstance rag-tag team of people who are kind of thrust together.

 

I say all of this, but I actually had the opposite problem to you in the first place. Always loved and became attached to DA characters, was unable to become attached to ME ones (with the exception of a few). 

[KaiserShep]

I think Dragon Age does quite a bit when it comes to the protagonist's developing relationship with the companions, especially considering that it must do this over the course of a single game, rather than an entire trilogy. Like, DA:O did an order of magnitude more than the first Mass Effect did when it came to nurturing the PC's friendships, but then Mass Effect is a bit more mission-oriented, whereas DA is generally focused more on the characters and how they react to the choices you make.

[milena87]

I actually think that the DA team did a great job with companions and their relationships with you character and/or each other, especially in DA2.

 

In DAO there's unfortunately not much interaction between the companions outside the party banters and their relationships with the Warden can feel a bit strange, thanks to the gift system.

 

DA2 improved things a lot in my opinion. The party banter happens at a good pace and changes a bit based on some choices, the characters comment during missions, even those that are about another companion, the gifts don't feel like Hawke is trying too hard to please someone and we're shown the companions to actually interact with each other without Hawke. The team in DA2 feels like a group of friends who genuinely like hanging out with each other. 

Of course DA2 has some problems as well, like the passing of time not really having an effect on the relationships between the various companions and with Hawke, as it seems that absolutely nothing happens during the years that we skip.

 

The ME team also did a good job in ME1, where companions briefly talk to each other and you have meetings with all the group after each main mission to give a sense of a team working together for a common cause, and in ME3, where party banter helps a lot. 

ME2 however, for all its focus on companions, failed in my opinion to depict a group of people working together: there's no party banter and almost no comments from the companions, unless you're doing the missions that directly involve them or the main missions. The suicide mission was the only part of the game where I felt that Shepard was part of a team.

[Mistress9Nine]

The actual real flaw of the Dragon Age format, is that you only have a 100 or so in-game years to make these games, after that a new Age will be named, so BioWare locked yourself out of making amazing prequels and sequels (like set at the fall of Arlathan or the height of the Imperium's power, the Exalted Marches, etc.) without having the title be nonsense or silly or unattached to the brand.

 

Newest Age: Alistair's Legacy

Dragon Age: Boob Age

Dragn Age: Before Age Reckoning: Rise of the Darkspawn

you get the jist.

 

/possibly off topic

[fhs33721]

The actual real flaw of the Dragon Age format, is that you only have a 100 or so in-game years to make these games, after that a new Age will be named, so BioWare locked yourself out of making amazing prequels and sequels (like set at the fall of Arlathan or the height of the Imperium's power, the Exalted Marches, etc.) without having the title be nonsense or silly or unattached to the brand.

 

Newest Age: Alistair's Legacy

Dragon Age: Boob Age

Dragn Age: Before Age Reckoning: Rise of the Darkspawn

you get the jist.

 

/possibly off topic

 

Thats not really a problem. You cold just name it "Rise o the Darkspawn", "Alistair's Legacy" or whatever without problems. Established Fans of the franchise would buy it anyway because they know it plays in Thedas. And the new Players would have to be targeted trough the usual channels (Trailers ans such) anyways because they probably don't care that this new cool-looking game is part of a franchise.

 

You are making up problems where none exist.

 

To the OP: I didn't have that problem. The charcters are quite good and I feel enough attachment towards them although I only get to see most of them only in one game. I actually prefer to get a new protagonist every installement. It makes the world feel bigger, wheras in Mass Effect the entire galaxy seemed to revolve around Shepard and team.

[ReadingRambo220]

For some reason this thread made me think of a Dragon Age version of the Citadel DLC. How awesome would it be to round up every DA companion and throw them in he Hanged Man or the Pearl or something . Doubt it would happen any time soon but wow that would be epic.

[Lady Nuggins]

For some reason this thread made me think of a Dragon Age version of the Citadel DLC. How awesome would it be to round up every DA companion and throw them in he Hanged Man or the Pearl or something . Doubt it would happen any time soon but wow that would be epic.

 

Now I want to throw my money at Bioware until they make that happen!

 

DA has more party banter during gameplay than ME, which is mostly limited to "elevator talks" or comments on the immediate mission.  I think that is something that DA2 excelled at, and is one reason why I kept replaying the game with different party combinations. 

 

What I look forward to is seeing what the "home base" for DAI will look like, because I think that will affect the mood of private conversations quite a bit.  DAO had the camp, which was nice for being able to visit your entire party at once, but it made private conversations feel weird, since everyone else was obviously within hearing range.  DA2 fixed the privacy issue by making you visit everyone at their house, but then you had to trudge across the entire city just to talk, and it felt less intimate.  I really hope that your keep or base or whatever will be more like the Normandy--a place where everyone has their own private area, but where they also move around and interact with each other.  I want my party to feel a little more like a family.

[Mes]

I think the companion interactions have been great, but of course as with anything there is room for improvement.

 

What I dream of is the ability to build a truly spectacular friendship with someone and get as much depth from the relationship as you would with a romanced character. And have cute little moments together.... something to replace kissing and weird sexay times. Like hanging out at the pub together, just you and your bestie. Or giggling off to the side about the rest of your companions. I don't know.

[efd731]

I suppose I should've explained better. I don't view the dragon age games as inferior to mass effect, but after me3 I want the dragon age games to make me feel that way,as far as companions go(not endings).
Some form of minor citadel type section would be glorious

[LinksOcarina]

I suppose I should've explained better. I don't view the dragon age games as inferior to mass effect, but after me3 I want the dragon age games to make me feel that way,as far as companions go(not endings).
Some form of minor citadel type section would be glorious

 

Well keep in mind, Citadel was fan service/swan song DLC because the trilogy was ending, along with the interactions between the characters we had. Such a DLC would be impossible in Dragon Age because it wouldn't make much sense, nor is there really a sense of finality attached to the series, since it can theoretically go on for the next 30 years or so under different ages. 

[Navasha]

I will have to disagree.   All things considered I think the Dragon Age team have done a phenomenal job of character development.    As others have pointed out, you only have one game to introduce them and get to know them and this includes the protagonist as well.    Think of how many complete characters Dragon Age has written as companions compared to Mass Effect.  

 

For me, I prefer the new protagonist per game and a whole cast of new interesting people to meet even if that often means only a single game to flush out their stories. 

[hexaligned]

I agree in the sense, that given the format, I don't think they have the time/tools to present (what I would consider to be) good characters in general.  They all (especially in DA2) come across as heavy-handed hamfisted caricatures of real people, rather than actual people I should (or do) care about.

 

They don't have (or don't utilize) the sort of things you can do in a novel, hundreds of pages of internal monologue, or subtle perception based metaphors, or even just character POV's in general. 

 

My favorite character in DAO was Loghain, and he probably got the least amount of on screen character development of any of the companions.  I got just enough of a glimpse to know there was some complexity to his psyche, some dappling to his personality, without the limitations of the medium turning him into a shallow cartoons eye view presentation of THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE GETTING FROM THIS CHARACTER ARE YOU GETTING IT YET OK HERE WE'LL TRY AGAIN OK HOW ABOUT NOW NO OK MAYBE IF HE WHINES ABOUT HIS CONCERNS MORE THAT MIGHT WORK.

 

To make it worse, in DA2 they put very blatant and artifical limitation on how characters functioned mechanically in a further attempt to define them and their place in the setting/story, and I personally think it resulted in a worse game play experience.  Which is a pretty important thing to get correct in a video game.

 

They should be using the characters as a subtle accessory tool to move their story and game forward, not trying to define the story and game through their characters. I don't have a problem with the latter in general, across all media, I just don't think, in this case, their characters are well crafted enough to make it work. Which I don't think is a slam on the writers, mind you.  Like I said, I don't think the format itself supports that well enough.

[Giubba]

I agree in the sense, that given the format, I don't think they have the time/tools to present (what I would consider to be) good characters in general.  They all (especially in DA2) come across as heavy-handed hamfisted caricatures of real people, rather than actual people I should (or do) care about.

 

They don't have (or don't utilize) the sort of things you can do in a novel, hundreds of pages of internal monologue, or subtle perception based metaphors, or even just character POV's in general. 

 

My favorite character in DAO was Loghain, and he probably got the least amount of on screen character development of any of the companions.  I got just enough of a glimpse to know there was some complexity to his psyche, some dappling to his personality, without the limitations of the medium turning him into a shallow cartoons eye view presentation of THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE GETTING FROM THIS CHARACTER ARE YOU GETTING IT YET OK HERE WE'LL TRY AGAIN OK HOW ABOUT NOW NO OK MAYBE IF HE WHINES ABOUT HIS CONCERNS MORE THAT MIGHT WORK.

 

To make it worse, in DA2 they put very blatant and artifical limitation on how characters functioned mechanically in a further attempt to define them and their place in the setting/story, and I personally think it resulted in a worse game play experience.  Which is a pretty important thing to get correct in a video game.

 

They should be using the characters as a subtle accessory tool to move their story and game forward, not trying to define the story and game through their characters. I don't have a problem with the latter in general, across all media, I just don't think, in this case, their characters are well crafted enough to make it work. Which I don't think is a slam on the writers, mind you.  Like I said, I don't think the format itself supports that well enough.

 

Yeah yeah show me on the doll where the bad ugly DA2 hurt you

[hexaligned]

Yeah yeah show me on the doll where the bad ugly DA2 hurt you

It was somewhere in the Amygdala region.

[Giubba]

Thought is was around your anus region. It's pretty common in both DA2 haters and ME3 PTSD cases.

[Mockingword]

Wait, you want to be able to interact with the characters less?

[Giubba]

Wait, you want to be able to interact with the characters less?

What do you mean mate?

[efd731]

If you're referring to what he said about Loghain, he meant they did a good job of making the character stand out in a short period of time. Interacting less with the characters in a bioware story is just....silly

[pallascedar]

Thinking of the ME characters I really liked: Tali, Garrus, Mordin, Wrex, Liara, Joker, EDI, pretty much all share that they're very important characters throughout multiple games. (Wrex and Mordin may only be companions in one, but they cranky played major roles in other games.) The game expands on these characters and you get to know them in a way you never could in a Dragon Age game.

I actually found all of the one game companions (Kasumi, Jacob, Samara, Thane to an extent) to not be particularly interesting.

[Nightdragon8]

I agree in the sense, that given the format, I don't think they have the time/tools to present (what I would consider to be) good characters in general.  They all (especially in DA2) come across as heavy-handed hamfisted caricatures of real people, rather than actual people I should (or do) care about.

 

They don't have (or don't utilize) the sort of things you can do in a novel, hundreds of pages of internal monologue, or subtle perception based metaphors, or even just character POV's in general. 

 

My favorite character in DAO was Loghain, and he probably got the least amount of on screen character development of any of the companions.  I got just enough of a glimpse to know there was some complexity to his psyche, some dappling to his personality, without the limitations of the medium turning him into a shallow cartoons eye view presentation of THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE GETTING FROM THIS CHARACTER ARE YOU GETTING IT YET OK HERE WE'LL TRY AGAIN OK HOW ABOUT NOW NO OK MAYBE IF HE WHINES ABOUT HIS CONCERNS MORE THAT MIGHT WORK.

 

To make it worse, in DA2 they put very blatant and artifical limitation on how characters functioned mechanically in a further attempt to define them and their place in the setting/story, and I personally think it resulted in a worse game play experience.  Which is a pretty important thing to get correct in a video game.

 

They should be using the characters as a subtle accessory tool to move their story and game forward, not trying to define the story and game through their characters. I don't have a problem with the latter in general, across all media, I just don't think, in this case, their characters are well crafted enough to make it work. Which I don't think is a slam on the writers, mind you.  Like I said, I don't think the format itself supports that well enough.

As for the novel thing, of course they can't, unless they want to make a 70 hour game, and sadly more and more gamers are getting A.D.D when it comes to video games in that if a game lasts longer than 5 hours they get bored.

 

This seems more about you dislike how they made the story vs wither or not its "good" or "bad" some stories are character driven other stories are "World" driven and the characters then react to the world.

 

Tho I will agree the handling of the characters in DA2 felt less than it was in DA:O

 

It felt we got to talk to them less, and I dunno, felt less involved.

[philippe willaume]

well comparing ME and DA for companion interaction  is like comparing WWII battle riffle and saying that one is significantly better than the rest.

IE there are some you will like better than others and they all look and feel different but they basically serve the same purpose the same way.

 

You can play ME2 without having played ME1 and the companion still works. That being said obviously having 3 game span does help companion "story". yet the recurring character stands on their own in each installment.

 

I totally agree that DA:2 companion felt less than DA:0 or ME companion. and really they should not have, There was much more works done around companion in DA:2 that in DA:0. The companion side quest and story where much more developed in DA:2 than in DA:0.

 

For me, the difference is in DA:0 and ME the companion have a "reason d'etre" that stand on it own.

in DA:2 they just fell like there only purpose in life is to be the side kick to the hero.I think it is probably compounded in the friendship branch. But when you look at the companion story on paper, all the DA:2 companion have a very solid back story and motivation. It just does not come across that way in game play.

 

In DA:0 or ME, the companion stay true to what they are. IE Leliana with the sacred urn, Miranda and Jack in ME:2 or Tali with the Geth. So either the flip on you or you need to sweet talk them around. and when there is something that they do not like, it is usually re-enforced by dialogue, DA:2 is much less effective in that respect.

i am not saying that we should have an Anders-Fenris based on Miranda-jack but at least it shows where each companion stands,

 

phil