454 réponses à ce sujet

[Star fury]

It always bothered me that too many nonsensical plot twists were explained by "Reaper tech". Cerberus is everywhere and is on par with Reapers and Geth? "Reaper tech". The most glaring example - retrieving krogan female from Surkesh, Salarian homeworld, who excel in subterfuge and intelligence with their capital heavily guarded. It is handwaived in a dialogue between two privates on Normandy.

 

Cerberus attacks Surkesh, Thessia, Citadel, they do what they want on Tuchanka with cruisers no less. Terrorist organisation which spent most of their money on Lazarus and Normandy SR2? Now TIM has a huge army and cruiser fleet! 

 

What is exactly "Reaper tech"? What it does? How exactly Cerberus use it?

 

I don't think wanting to have human enemies required plot decisions that were that awful. ME1 mostly had only Geth as enemies, it didn't stop it from being one of the better Bioware games. I guess we have to thank SuperMac for this too.

[TurianRebel212]

Your last sentence answered your original thesis.

 

 

 

 

But..... For the sake of "Speculations", would you like to further engaged this topic from the perspective of not "bahd rieting" "rushed dev time dawg"???

[naddaya]

ME 1 had an adult, realistic tone. The sequels were full blown comics, over the top and at times ridiculous. It's obvious they changed their target audience.

[Star fury]

Your last sentence answered your original thesis.

 

 

 

 

But..... For the sake of "Speculations", would you like to further engaged this topic from the perspective of not "bahd rieting" "rushed dev time dawg"???

What has stopped devs from giving more screen time to Reapers(and Geth)? ME1 main campaign was basically shooting Geth, lack of human enemies doesn't make it worse. Was ME3 development time shorter than that of ME1-2?

[Star fury]

ME 1 had an adult, realistic tone. The sequels were full blown comics, over the top and at times ridiculous. It's obvious they changed their target audience.

I agree to some extent. ME1 was the most realistic with attention to detail. Overall military atmosphere on the Normandy, realistic armour(no catsuits in space like Miranda),

[TTTX]

It seems that BW are making well a lot of mistakes after being bought by EA.

 

Using cheap plot points to explain important thing events, even at times ignoring ME lore (you can see this in the ME comics and novels) and if people don't like a character they either kill the character off or sex them up instead off trying to writ them more interesting.

 

The Mass Effect games are still great games, but from a story point of view, I find the ME story spanning over the three games not the epic scifi that some people believe it is.

 

Of course it's a matter of debate, opinion and so on.

 

but to answer your question well I guess the writers just decided to take the easy way out of explain certain events, the Citadel coupe were never properly explained especially Udina decided to go awall for no reason what so ever.

[Star fury]

 

The Mass Effect games are still great games, but from a story point of view, I find the ME story spanning over the three games not the epic scifi that some people believe it is.

 

Most game journos label it's story as B-movie.

 

 

but to answer your question well I guess the writers just decided to take the easy way out of explain certain events, the Citadel coupe were never properly explained especially Udina decided to go awall for no reason what so ever.

 

 

Yeah, Citadel and Udina coup is another plot hole.

[naddaya]

It seems that BW are making well a lot of mistakes after being bought by EA.

 

Using cheap plot points to explain important thing events, even at times ignoring ME lore (you can see this in the ME comics and novels) and if people don't like a character they either kill the character off or sex them up instead off trying to writ them more interesting.

 

The Mass Effect games are still great games, but from a story point of view, I find the ME story spanning over the three games not the epic scifi that some people believe it is.

 

Of course it's a matter of debate, opinion and so on.

 

but to answer your question well I guess the writers just decided to take the easy way out of explain certain events, the Citadel coupe were never properly explained especially Udina decided to go awall for no reason what so ever.

 

Shepard's Jesus Pull. Bad explanation for joining Cerberus. TIM's indoctrination. Retarded things like everyone leaving the Normandy in the shuttle in ME2. Shepard being grounded. Lack of tactical reasoning (A war plan definitely requires tactics. The whole beginning sequence of ME3 seemed written by a child). The crucible plan being suddenly pulled out of Liara's ass. The clone, oh god, the clone. Kai Leng.

 

I'm not even mentioning the kid or the endings here, there are many weak points. 

Some scenes I liked. Tuchanka, Mordin, Omega, Tali's trial, the grim appearance of the citadel in ME2, several bits of dialogue. But overall, the plot had me facepalming most of the time. 

[Bob from Accounting]

My goodness, are there some incredibly silly comments in this thread.

[Star fury]

Shepard's Jesus Pull. Bad explanation for joining Cerberus. TIM's indoctrination. Retarded things like everyone leaving the Normandy in the shuttle in ME2. Shepard being grounded. Lack of tactical reasoning (A war plan definitely requires tactics. The whole beginning sequence of ME3 seemed written by a child). The crucible plan being suddenly pulled out of Liara's ass. The clone, oh god, the clone. Kai Leng.

 

I'm not even mentioning the kid or the endings here, there are many weak points. 

Some scenes I liked. Tuchanka, Mordin, Omega, Tali's trial, the grim appearance of the citadel in ME2, several bits of dialogue. But overall, the plot had me facepalming most of the time. 

You can add Rannoch and Suicide mission. But in ME1-2 gameplay and strong characters overshadowed weak plot moments, in ME3 it didn't in the end and so all came crushing down.

[Star fury]

My goodness, are there some incredibly silly comments in this thread.

Who exactly is silly?

[fhs33721]

I don't think wanting to have human enemies required plot decisions that were that awful. ME1 mostly had only Geth as enemies, it didn't stop it from being one of the better Bioware games. I guess we have to thank SuperMac for this too.

The bolded part isn't exactly true. Only the main missions had a lot of geth. Allmost all the sidemissions were some random mercenary shooting gallery. And even in main mission the geth weren't the only enemies. There were also Rachni, Asari commandos, Mind controlled colonists, plant zombies, husks, Krogans and mercs working for Saren. I'm pretty sure you kill way more other stuff than geth.

 

That being said. They wrote the reaperas as almost all powerful space horrors. Winning actual battles against them would make no sense from a lore point of view, so they threw Cerberus as secondary bad guys in, in order to have the player achieve some major victories. Is it good stroy writing? Probably not. But imagine the fan-outrage if Shepard would actually loose more battles. Gamers are extremely close minded when it comes to their charater losing. They want to be infalliable gods of slaughter that would never ever lose, even to a clearly superior force. And if they do then there will be serious backlash. That does kind of limit the quality of writing the devs can actually deliver.

 

So here have some gratitious Cerberus mobs that you can win against.

[TTTX]

You can add Rannoch and Suicide mission. But in ME1-2 gameplay and strong characters overshadowed weak plot moments, in ME3 it didn't in the end and so all came crushing down.

I had one problem with Rannoch. 

Legion doing the whole upload Reaper code, basically doing a 180 from ME2 where Legion said the geth were making their own future and all that.

[Bob from Accounting]

That being said. They wrote the reaperas as almost all powerful space horrors. Winning actual battles against them would make no sense from a lore point of view, so they threw Cerberus as secondary bad guys in, in order to have the player achieve some major victories. Is it good stroy writing? Probably not. But imagine the fan-outrage if Shepard would actually loose more battles. Gamers are extremely close minded when it comes to their charater losing. They want to be infalliable gods of slaughter that would never ever lose, even to a clearly superior force. And if they do then there will be serious backlash. That does kind of limit the quality of writing the devs can actually deliver.

 

So here have some gratitious Cerberus mobs that you can win against.

 

The player fights Cerberus because gameplay needs a human enemy with human tactics. Fighting husks for 30 hours straight is not particularly fun.

 

The Reapers strength has nothing to do with it. Shepard isn't fighting the capital ships on foot in any case. Only the husks.

[Star fury]

You are. For starters, do you understand why it's very childish to title your thread 'bad plot' or somesuch other nonsense? Are your points so weak you can't get them across through content, and have to declare your correctness in the title?

You're such an internet tough guy, Bobvid.

[Star fury]

I had one problem with Rannoch. 

Legion doing the whole upload Reaper code, basically doing a 180 from ME2 where Legion said the geth were making their own future and all that.

Geth as a whole race made a 180 in ME3. Guess one of the reasons is that Chris l'Etoile left Bioware.

[Bob from Accounting]

'Toughness'? No, this is basic courtesy. Basic etiquette of speaking well.

[TTTX]

The bolded part isn't exactly true. Only the main missions had a lot of geth. Allmost all the sidemissions were some random mercenary shooting gallery. And even in main mission the geth weren't the only enemies. There were also Rachni, Asari commandos, Mind controlled colonists, plant zombies, husks, Krogans and mercs working for Saren. I'm pretty sure you kill way more other stuff than geth.

 

That being said. They wrote the reaperas as almost all powerful space horrors. Winning actual battles against them would make no sense from a lore point of view, so they threw Cerberus as secondary bad guys in, in order to have the player achieve some major victories. Is it good stroy writing? Probably not. But imagine the fan-outrage if Shepard would actually loose more battles. Gamers are extremely close minded when it comes to their charater losing. They want to be infalliable gods of slaughter that would never ever lose, even to a clearly superior force. And if they do then there will be serious backlash. That does kind of limit the quality of writing the devs can actually deliver.

 

So here have some gratitious Cerberus mobs that you can win against.

I believe it okay for a the main character to lose sometimes as long as it is well written (Metal Gear Solid 4 did this on more then one occasion and it worked).

 

How Shepard lost to Kai Leng Lame (the game version of Kai Lame was so poorly written considering how he was suppose be the anti Shepard) was not well written.

[Star fury]

The bolded part isn't exactly true. Only the main missions had a lot of geth. Allmost all the sidemissions were some random mercenary shooting gallery. And even in main mission the geth weren't the only enemies. There were also Rachni, Asari commandos, Mind controlled colonists, plant zombies, husks, Krogans and mercs working for Saren. I'm pretty sure you kill way more other stuff than geth.

 

That being said. They wrote the reaperas as almost all powerful space horrors. Winning actual battles against them would make no sense from a lore point of view, so they threw Cerberus as secondary bad guys in, in order to have the player achieve some major victories. Is it good stroy writing? Probably not. But imagine the fan-outrage if Shepard would actually loose more battles. Gamers are extremely close minded when it comes to their charater losing. They want to be infalliable gods of slaughter that would never ever lose, even to a clearly superior force. And if they do then there will be serious backlash. That does kind of limit the quality of writing the devs can actually deliver.

 

So here have some gratitious Cerberus mobs that you can win against.

Yeah and most players play only main missions. What stopped Bioware from making Reaper ground force composition more diverse? Throw some indoctrinated humans, asari, krogans with cannibals, brutes and banshees. Something like you mentioned when Saren had krogan mercenaries and indoctrinated asari alongside Geth. No, it's all Cerberus, they even overshadowed Reapers.  

 

I don't see anything impossible in "winning actual battles against Reapers". Cannibals, brutes, banshees are not invincible and you could always show that without Shepard and co Alliance and other races only suffer defeat after defeat.

[TTTX]

The player fights Cerberus because gameplay needs a human enemy with human tactics. Fighting husks for 30 hours straight is not particularly fun.

 

The Reapers strength has nothing to do with it. Shepard isn't fighting the capital ships on foot in any case. Only the husks.

Cerberus turning into Reaper slaves for the sake of the gameplay is not the best decision in my book.

[Bob from Accounting]

Do you have any evidence or reasoning whatsoever to back up these claims of 'most players play only main missions'?

[Bob from Accounting]

Cerberus turning into Reaper slaves for the sake of the gameplay is not the best decision in my book.

 

Do you have any other ideas? Hopefully something a little smarter than 'Shepard fights indoctrinated armies'? Smarter than simply dropping Cerberus and having gameplay suffer for it?

[fhs33721]

The player fights Cerberus because gameplay needs a human enemy with human tactics. Fighting husks for 30 hours straight is not particularly fun.

 

The Reapers strength has nothing to do with it. Shepard isn't fighting the capital ships on foot in any case. Only the husks.

 

That isn't the real reason. They could easily have created some sort of reaper forces that use human tactics, if that was the sole reason.

 

If Shepard fights capital ships or not is irrelevant to my point. A military victory against a full on reaper assault is impossible from a lore point of view. Shepard can't singlehandeldy turn the tide of a battle against a vastly superior foe, even if players want to believe it. Remember all the missions with Reaper forces in it? Never did you win any of those battles. You always just evacuated important persons or dealt with some scouts or stragglers. Never did you manage to win in a fullout Reaper assault.

So there we have Cerberus thrown in to give you the victories you crave.

[Star fury]

Cerberus turning into Reaper slaves for the sake of the gameplay is not the best decision in my book.

It's even more hilarious when you consider the fact that Cerberus apparently are Reaper allies the whole game then suddenly Reapers attack them on the Sanctuary.

[Bob from Accounting]

That isn't the real reason. They could easily have created some sort of reaper forces that use human tactics, if that was the sole reason.

 

No. Wrong. Contrary to what you might think, the developers are not going to make the Reaper husks into humans with human technology (guns, shields, whatnot) and a coat of paint.