454 réponses à ce sujet

[Iamjdr]

I believe people put lore and "reason" too much on a pedestal. Ok, let's assume ME2 choices hurt ME lore and its inner logic, but one must ask, what was the trade off? And it's clear. ME2 with mechanics like thermal clips and new biotics powers offered a much greater gameplay experience. ME1 gameplay was at it's best mediocre, ME2 and ME3 were amazing. So you gave 1 and received 10 in return, a worth bargain without a doubt.

Unless of course, all you care about is narrative and can forget the Mass Effect trilogy is in the end, games. I can respect that, but that's a very narrow view. Liking only one aspect of the game is not a good place to be.

Tho I completely agree that the gameplay improved over the course of the 3 games I'm not sure just tossing out the overheat mechanic completely was a good move for me2. I really like the overheat system from me1 it's really unique IMHO but it was to easy to exploit. But it shouldn't have been just dropped, especially when I feel they brought it back in me3 and it worked so well with the lancer. I think it would have been smart to have atleast one weapon in me2 that still had the overheating mechanic, even if it was only as an unlock of some kind. That way you would please both the new and returning fans.

[ImaginaryMatter]

http://tvtropes.org/...FictionHardness

not exactly...

 

It states that, "hard science fiction if firmly grounded in reality with few fantastical flights of fancy not justified by science."

 

Everything about the technology in Mass Effect is fantastical. None of the explanations for how things work are grounded in physical laws. It plays out exactly like a fantasy story would only it happens in a futuristic setting. I know the description allows for fantastical aspects but the entire thing is fantasy, it just uses words like Eezo instead of mana. I don't think this is bad but if one applies science to the Mass Effect lore it completely falls apart.

[crimzontearz]

It states that, "hard science fiction if firmly grounded in reality with few fantastical flights of fancy not justified by science."

Everything about the technology in Mass Effect is fantastical. None of the explanations for how things work are grounded in physical laws. It plays out exactly like a fantasy story would only it happens in a futuristic setting. I know the description allows for fantastical aspects but the entire thing is fantasy, it just uses words like Eezo instead of mana. I don't think this is bad but if one applies science to the Mass Effect lore it completely falls apart.

read the classifications. ME1 is a "one big lie" ...ME2/3 moved to world of phlebotium

[Iamjdr]

read the classifications. ME1 is a "one big lie" ...ME2/3 moved to world of phlebotium

That might work if mass effect was only about eezo and mass effects but it isn't. They are mainly a background thing. There is also the reapers, many alien species, FTL, AI, omni tools, omni gel, galactic councils, species that can mate with any other species cloning and Everyone wears a translator at all times... These are many things that I believe already ruin the one big lie theory and they weren't added in me2-3. It even say on that page that star craft and Star Trek are in the phlebotium category ,mass effect is very similar to Star Trek and even more like Star Wars. which is even less hard scifi.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Yeah, and I wouldn't put Clarke on a pedestal either. 2001 had to be one of the most boring books I've ever read.  

 

Heinlein could get away with a lot of stuff.

 

I really don't care how you classify the series. I long came to the conclusion that kinetic barriers were a game play mechanic. They don't work in the novels. Biotics are "space magic." The infinite ammo in ME1 was ridiculous, so instead of actually using ammunition they made up this ass pull called "thermal clips" to simulate ammunition but still not require there actually be any ammunition. Weapons still make ammo out of thin air through a patented process called "spess magik." The entire Mass Effect Series is soft sci-fi. It never was hard sci-fi. It's a space opera. Have fun. Pull that and it does this.

 

I kind of like the world of phlebotium to physics plus. It's fun to play in.

 

Mass Effect is about the characters more than about the lore.

[Iamjdr]

Random thought...and one thing I always wondered about me1, where the hell did Saren get that hoverboard? And why is he like the only one in the galaxy with one? Scratch that I don't think I could handle more hoverboards honestly..

[CronoDragoon]

Random thought...and one thing I always wondered about me1, where the hell did Saren get that hoverboard? And why is he like the only one in the galaxy with one? Scratch that I don't think I could handle more hoverboards honestly..

 

I guess Marty's time traveling finally caught up with him?

[Iamjdr]

I guess Marty's time traveling finally caught up with him?

Haha! Yes I can live with that explanation

[Star fury]

Cerberus fielding a fleet in ME3 was a bit silly. Indoctrination might work as a convenient explanation as to how they obtained the manpower, but where did the ships come from? Cerberus isn't a government in control of planets and shipyards. It shouldn't have a fleet.

Exactly. How? Just how Cerberus obtained a fleet? It's a terrorist organisation which is outlawed throughout the galaxy. How they got their hands on CRUISERS? Alliance send two fleets against Cerberus HQ.

 

It's like al Qaeda getting cruisers from the USA or IRA getting them from the UK. Idiotic. 

[Iamjdr]

Exactly. How? Just how Cerberus obtained a fleet? It's a terrorist organisation which is outlawed throughout the galaxy. How they got their hands on CRUISERS? Alliance send two fleets against Cerberus HQ.

It's like al Qaeda getting cruisers from the USA or IRA getting them from the UK. Idiotic.

Umm what? I don't even know what to say to that terrible analogy. but to say Cerberus is Outlawed throughout the galaxy? By who? The council? All they gotta do is operate in the terminus and they are fine and dandy. Plus thanks to sheps actions in me2, I would say they've built up some pretty good recruitment material.

And how exactly do you think Cerberus got the sr2 in the first place? Someone must have built it right? And it's not like they were gonna outsource the work when that's how they apperently got the blueprints in the first place. So It would make sense to think that they have some way of manufacturing ships for themselves. Especially since the sr2 is one of thee most advanced ships in the galaxy it, would make sense for them have some way to build themselves more ships.

Who is to say they haven't been building them for a while and reserving them till the reapers came. Don't forget Tim has been anticipating the reapers arrival for quite some time. If he is worried about the reapers return enough to bring a dead spectre back to life, why couldn't he also be stockpiling ships and weapons like every other doomsday preper of the future would.

[Star fury]

Umm what? I don't even know what to say to that terrible analogy. but to say Cerberus is Outlawed throughout the galaxy? By who? The council? All they gotta do is operate in the terminus and they are fine and dandy. Plus thanks to sheps actions in me2, I would say they've built up some pretty good recruitment material.

 

Cerberus is outlawed by both Alliance and Council.  

 And how exactly do you think Cerberus got the sr2 in the first place? Someone must have built it right? And it's not like they were gonna outsource the work when that's how they apperently got the blueprints in the first place. So It would make sense to think that they have some way of manufacturing ships for themselves. Especially since the sr2 is one of thee most advanced ships in the galaxy it, would make sense for them have some way to build themselves more ships.

 

 

Do you understand the difference between one frigate and several cruisers? Also it was stated in ME2 that building SR2 drained Cerberus resources.

 

How exactly they were building ships, especially cruisers? Small terrorist organisation which spent most of their resources on Lazarus project and SR2. 

Modifié par Star fury, 19 mars 2014 - 04:59 .

[AlanC9]

How many cruisers does Cerberus have, anyway? I don't have Omega so I can't do an accurate count.

[Star fury]

How many cruisers does Cerberus have, anyway? I don't have Omega so I can't do an accurate count.

Admiral Hackett sent two fleets when attacking Cerberus HQ. Go figure.

[AlanC9]

How exactly they were building ships, especially cruisers? Small terrorist organisation which spent most of their resources on Lazarus project and SR2.

Assuming that those ME2 statements about Cerberus resources were true, that is. There's no particular problem with EDI being full of misinformation. Miranda's case is a bit harder.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Assuming that those ME2 statements about Cerberus resources were true, that is. There's no particular problem with EDI being full of misinformation. Miranda's case is a bit harder.

 

This is what I keep saying.... Miranda is hiding something. She still believes in what Cerberus stands for. It was TIM she took issue with. Now that she has Henry Lawson's Billions... or whatever he had.... Cerberus will rise again.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Assuming that those ME2 statements about Cerberus resources were true, that is. There's no particular problem with EDI being full of misinformation. Miranda's case is a bit harder.

 

I guess those situations aren't technically retcons but they certainly feel like them.

[AlanC9]

Sure. Bio did change their minds about what Cerberus was for every game.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Sure. Bio did change their minds about what Cerberus was for every game.

 

Maybe each iteration is a different head?

[Star fury]

Sure. Bio did change their minds about what Cerberus was for every game.

Cerberus made a 360 degree turn from ME1 to ME3.

[SNascimento]

you obviously have never played a game with an active cool down mechanic....which would have suited the devs need to add "tension" without crapping on the lore.

poor design it is

I played a lot of games with different types of cooldowns for abilities. If you could be more precise instead of just assuming things I could reply better to your comment.

Also, I must disagree with your "poor design" assessment. The improved gameplay mechanics in ME2 was one of the most praizes aspects of ME2, and that game received, and still receives, ton of it. Not an easy accomplishment considering the number of great games out there. Also, ME3 gameplay was good enough to create a very successful multiplayer (which I'm sure didn't suprise a lot of people that thought like me). So, maybe you don't like the changes the developers did, but calling them 'poor' is - well - a poor choice of words.

 

I never argue about the issues relating to game play. Personally, I would have liked to have seen a modification of the heat system in guns but I like thermal clips better than what they had in ME1; similar to Biotics being hampered by protection. The changes made the gameplay more dynamic.

 

It's the story aspects that get to me. The Lazarus project was a huge step, especially considering nothing came of it, everybody in the game world acts oddly or completely ignores the implications of the project and Shepard's resurrection; not to mention the biological issues that go into bringing someone back from vacuum exposure and atmospheric reentry. Rebooting Cerberus is another thing. Working for them without being able to bring up all the stuff they pulled in ME1 is another. It makes the story less enjoyable if implausible or huge stretches are made to the narrative.

I prefer not to talk much about it. I'm not really an expert in narrative and I much rather not pretend I'm one, all I can say is what the game brought me. About the Lazarus Project, I can see why it might stretch believability too far, but I didn't find it near bad enough to cause much damage to my experience. It does bring one very important element to the story though, the ability to jump the time two years without taking control out of the player. If Shepard is out of the picture, you can't feel that you would have done something in those two years... that's my theory from where the idea of killing Shepard stemmed from. 

About Cerberus, I thought their evolution from ME1 to ME2 was ok, no problems really. From ME2 to ME3 is another matter. 

[TTTX]

I believe people put lore and "reason" too much on a pedestal. Ok, let's assume ME2 choices hurt ME lore and its inner logic, but one must ask, what was the trade off? And it's clear. ME2 with mechanics like thermal clips and new biotics powers offered a much greater gameplay experience. ME1 gameplay was at it's best mediocre, ME2 and ME3 were amazing. So you gave 1 and received 10 in return, a worth bargain without a doubt.
 

Unless of course, all you care about is narrative and can forget the Mass Effect trilogy is in the end, games. I can respect that, but that's a very narrow view. Liking only one aspect of the game is not a good place to be.  

I pretty much agree from a gameplay perspective .

 

From a story perspectives ME1 is the best of the bunch, because ME2 so called "story" doesn't really do much for the over all plot which makes it nothing more then a filler, it's about the character which is why the game is basically awesome, ME3 story mostly bad do to a lack of proper explanation and to many thing that just don't make sense like the Reapers not taking the Citadel as their first target and turn of the Relays as they have in previous cycles and even when they take it they still don't don't turn of the Relays.

[TTTX]

About Cerberus, I thought their evolution from ME1 to ME2 was ok, no problems really. From ME2 to ME3 is another matter. 

I personal blame the lead writer in ME3 Marc Walters on Cerberus so called evolution in ME3, from what I have seen from him especially the new ME comics he writs he lets the rule of cool come ahead of good story (not to mention lore and things that has happened can be different then what character told in previous ME games just gets reckoned because he has some other vision) and he seems to like putting Cerberus in everything Brooks and Leng appears a lot in comics and if they don't TIM does.

 

I will state I have nothing against the guy, but he really should stop writing stories, I have seen better work from fanfics.

[von uber]

Regards cerberus and omega; at least two (the one aria steals and the one she blows up).

[shodiswe]

As for Cerberus assets.... They had a lot of very rich people like Mr Lawson who was the richest man in the Galaxy. He was a volunteer, others were indoctrinated or coerced/blackmailed.

 

Cerberus ran large ship production companies, if they overcharged their clients they could spend those additional assets on their own needs, like building the SR2 and cruisers.

 

We were also told that Cerberus hijacked a few Alliance cruisers that were in drydock when the Reapers hit and used the confusion to get aboard and steal them.

 

Their large amounts of shocktroopers are farmers and a few colonial engineers that were exposed to modified reapertech to indoctrinate and allow TIM to control them... All while the Catalyst allowed TIM to do so because TIM caused a smokescreen that made the Reapers work easier by softening up the targets from the inside.

 

Millions of indoctrinated farmers = millions of shock troopers.

 

Cerberus were using civilian shuttles on Surkesh and the Salairans didn't notice them until they entered restricted airspace. They likely had valid access codes to enter Surkesh space.

 

It's likely they had plans for the facility, layout, and tactical data on deployment of Salarian troops.

 

It's possible Cerberus had some Salarian and Asari spies aswell, Indoctrinated or corrup.

 

On Thessia, they likely had Asari flight clarence, and the Reapers might have been instructed by the Catalyst to not bother Cerberus forces overly much.

With the exception of mr Lawson in Sanctuary who wasn't indoctrinated and had access to sensitive information about Reaper indoctrination and control technology. Technology similar to what the Leviathans had.

 

One could wonder why it took the Salarians so long to send a response team to clear out Cerberus, I'm guessing the base was being jammed. Meaning their outside forces wern't immediately aware of the attack on the STG base.

[Farangbaa]

Tho I completely agree that the gameplay improved over the course of the 3 games I'm not sure just tossing out the overheat mechanic completely was a good move for me2. I really like the overheat system from me1 it's really unique IMHO but it was to easy to exploit. But it shouldn't have been just dropped, especially when I feel they brought it back in me3 and it worked so well with the lancer. I think it would have been smart to have atleast one weapon in me2 that still had the overheating mechanic, even if it was only as an unlock of some kind. That way you would please both the new and returning fans.

 

The codex entry about this is very clear, simple and logical. The Geth did some mathematical analysis on their combat logs, and realized the 'overheating' system, as you call it, was very inefficient. Hence they turned (back) to clips.

 

Modern infantry weapons are micro-scaled mass accelerators, using mass-reducing fields and magnetic force to propel miniature slugs to lethal speeds. Nearly every gun on the battlefield is laden with features, from targeting auto-assists to projectile shavers that can generate thousands of rounds of ammunition from a small, internal block of metal.

 

It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, most firefights were won by the side who could put the most rounds down-range the fastest. But combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat, or pause as their weapons vented.

 

To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead, and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.

 

There's absolutely no reason, for anyone, to use the old weapons.

 

Unless it's the Lancer found in the Citadel DLC. That's a beastly weapon.