Do you have any other ideas? Hopefully something a little smarter than 'Shepard fights indoctrinated armies'? Smarter than simply dropping Cerberus and having gameplay suffer for it?
Not to be insulting or anything.
You do realize that Cerberus are an indoctrinated army?
We are actually fighting only fighting indoctrinated enemies in ME3 (a side from one DLC) or did you miss that fact when you played ME3?
Yes, but an indoctrinated army we have a history with, and at least some known access to high technology.
It's not just random turians and salarians or whatever. That makes a significant difference.
It's even more hilarious when you consider the fact that Cerberus apparently are Reaper allies th whole game then suddenly Reapers attack them on the Sanctuary.
I go with the writer didn't get the memo when Sanctuary got written.
Not to be insulting or anything.
You do realize that Cerberus are an indoctrinated army?
We are actually fighting only fighting indoctrinated enemies in ME3 (a side from one DLC) or did you miss that fact when you played ME3?
It's Bobvid for you.
I go with the writer didn't get the memo when Sanctuary got written.
I really hope you're not serious. The Reapers and Cerberus fighting on Horizon was explicitly explained. Maybe you missed it. Or have difficulty reading?
Yes, but an indoctrinated army we have a history with, and at least some known access to high technology.
It's not just random turians and salarians or whatever. That makes a significant difference.
true, but Cerberus isn't suppose to have lots of ships, actually the last the heard before ME3 was the Cerberus were pretty much bankrupt.
This is true. Cerberus was certainly handled far from ideally.
I think the best option would be to keep Cerberus, but simply remove any notion of them waging a galactic war. Establish that Shepard is fighting them, but pretty much everyone else is focused on the Reapers.
I really hope you're not serious. The Reapers and Cerberus fighting on Horizon was explicitly explained. Maybe you missed it. Or have difficulty reading?
Riiight.....Because the Reapers couldn't just taken control of Cerberus troops and got them to kill all the people.
I don't see any evidence that they could've.
1.Yeah and most players play only main missions. What stopped Bioware from making Reaper ground froce composition more diverse? Throw some indoctrinated humans, asari, krogans with cannibals, brutes and banshees. Something like you mentioned when Saren had krogan mercenaries and indoctrinated asari alongside Geth. No, it's all Cerberus, they even overshadowed Reapers.
2.I don't see anything impossible in "winning actual battles against Reapers". Cannibals, brutes, banshees are not invincible and you could always show that without Shepard and co Alliance and other races only suffer defeat after defeat.
1. I agree that a little more diverity in the enemies would have been nice. And I originally even agreed with that having Cerberus as enemy every second mission isn't the best of writing. I'm all for having more missions with the Reapers (with improved enemy variety) as enemies. But actually have the player lose some of them (As in having to retreat or having to flee. Not as in being killed)
2. I didn't mean battle as in one skirmish with reaper ground troops. But battle as in full on Reaper assault of a particular area.
Cannibals, brutes and the like aren't invincible no. But still they have far superior numbers, brutes and banshees in particualar can slaughter entire squads before going down and for most od the fallen/captured soldiers or even civilians of your side the reapers gain another man on theirs. Furthermore even if you managed to withstand the almost infinite waves of Reaper ground forces, a capital ship could just be fed up with your antics and bomb you to hell.
And don't kid yourself. Even with Shepard the alliacne and other species suffer defeeat after defeat.
You don't actually win any major battles against Reapers in the ME3 campaing.
-On Earth the Alliance gets their asses handed to them in mere seconds and you take the only smart option and flee with the Normandy.
-On Palven your objective is to rescue the primarch, because the Turians military is bsically powerless against the Reaper assault. You manage to stall the Reaper ground forces a bit but achieve nothing to help the turians win. Palaven is later lost as Garrus tells you.
-In the Rachni mission you manage to kill/free the queen. But that wasn't exactly a battle. She was just hanging around there producing troops and no actual Reapers were involved.
-Admittedly on Tuchnaka you defeat the Reaper. But it was only one scout and again I wouldn't call it a actual battle.
-On Thessia the Asari defenses are eradicated by the Reapers. Your presence doesn't change a thing.
-In the monastary you arrive after the Reapers have already left. They already got what they came for. You are just cleaning up stragglers.
-Same with Horizon.
-The final battle on earth doesn't go to well either. Only 50% of your troops actually makes it down to earth. Then the rest of them is weakened by Husks en masse and what is left gets fried by Harbinger. And as Refuse shows, without space magic you would have lost that battle.
So no, it would be stupid to have Shepard win all battles against Reapers. Again I think that this is one of the reasons Cerberus was introduced as secondary enmy. To outsource the player victories from the Reapers to Cerberus in order to have the lore be halfway consistent (It still has some major consitency errors mind you).
Because it's satisfying gameplay. It provides varience.
I don't see any evidence that they could've.
The attack on Sur'kesh, the Citadel and a few other places, Cerberus attacked for no good reason.
And to you, that's evidence that the Reapers can take control of Cerberus troops?
If you do not like the game and it's plotholes then stop playing masseffect.
You do realize that one can like the game but also see it's flaws at the same time, right?
Personally I find the various ploholes kind of funny and annyoing at times but still love the game.
Plus I have never seen any work of fiction that didn't have any plotholes so far so I don't care about the ones in Mass Effect that much.
And to you, that's evidence that the Reapers can take control of Cerberus troops?
Considering that Reapers don't want a Krogan turian alliance and want the Citadel (Why they didn't take the Citadel to begin with is a mystery to me), at the very least they influence Cerberus troops.
The attack on Sur'kesh, the Citadel and a few other places, Cerberus attacked for no good reason.
for no good reason.
Shepard. For Shepard.
Which "coincidentally" is what Harbinger is all about as well.
"Shepard, you do not understand YOUR place in things"- Harbinger.
"You cannot escape YOUR destiny, Shepard"-Harbinger.
You evolve along the paths we desire.
OP, have you read Evolution by Walters? It tells you everything you need to know about TIM+Reapers= Cerberus.
Also, Saren is in it. Always good when that dudes in something Mass Effect-y related, hehehe.
Considering that Reapers don't want a Krogan turian alliance and want the Citadel (Why they didn't take the Citadel to begin with is a mystery to me), at the very least they influence Cerberus troops.
I don't think they influence the actual Cerberus troops. They just influence TIM through indoctrination, who then thinks that it would be a good idea to attack SurKesh for some reason. But TIM isn't fully indoctrinated yet and that is why he still has some peronal agenda and wants to find a way to control the Reapers.
TIM still thinks he oposes the Reapers and therefore he doesn't just order his men to destroy the Sanctuary, so the Reapers actually have to move their asses there to do it themselves and Cerberus defends it naturally.
Indoctrination doesn't necessarily work along the lines of: "Bam you are indoctrinated now and will do everything I command starting right now."
for no good reason.
Shepard. For Shepard.
Which "coincidentally" is what Harbinger is all about as well.
"Shepard, you do not understand YOUR place in things"- Harbinger.
"You cannot escape YOUR destiny, Shepard"-Harbinger.
You evolve along the paths we desire.
OP, have you read Evolution by Walters? It tells you everything you need to know about TIM+Reapers= Cerberus.
Also, Saren is in it. Always good when that dudes in something Mass Effect-y related, hehehe.
Although I haven't read Evolution, but I know what happens in it and after I found out about Evolution I was kinda like "Well there goes Saren reason for hating humans and there is there cheap explanation why TIM will stab everyone in the back ME3 which we of course we aren't going to hear about in the game", not to mention in ME3 TIM was all like "I have battle the Reapers like forever and that's what I used Cerberus for" which is BS because Cerberus is about the advancement of the human race.
Also Walters isn't a story writer, but a character writer which shows since whatever plot line he writes is mediocre at best. I have nothing against him, but someone should tell him to stop writing stories and stick with creating characters.
I don't think they influence the actual Cerberus troops. They just influence TIM through indoctrination, who then thinks that it would be a good idea to attack SurKesh for some reason. But TIM isn't fully indoctrinated yet and that is why he still has some peronal agenda and wants to find a way to control the Reapers.
TIM still thinks he oposes the Reapers and therefore he doesn't just order his men to destroy the Sanctuary, so the Reapers actually have to move their asses there to do it themselves and Cerberus defends it naturally.
Indoctrination doesn't necessarily work along the lines of: "Bam you are indoctrinated now and will do everything I command starting right now."
They have Reaper tech in them and the lore clearly states. "If you have Reaper tech in you or you spend long period near it, you be under the influence of the Reapers (unless you are the Main character then you are immune until the plot says other wise)" this has been proven time and time again more specifically in the novels and of course the games.
Because it's satisfying gameplay. It provides varience.
Not really. We're supposed to be fighting Reapers. Wouldn't it make much more sense to make more Reaper variants and focus on them, while minimizing the assets for Cerberus and the Geth instead of giving them their own armies to fight repeatedly?
If you do not like the game and it's plotholes then stop playing masseffect.
I like the game. I don't like its plot holes. Can I complain to BW about reducing said plot holes in future games and being tidy with the lore and the plot above all else?
Although I haven't read Evolution, but I know what happens in it and after I found out about Evolution I was kinda like "Well there goes Saren reason for hating humans and there is there cheap explanation why TIM will stab everyone in the back ME3 which we of course we aren't going to hear about in the game", not to mention in ME3 TIM was all like "I have battle the Reapers like forever and that's what I used Cerberus for" which is BS because Cerberus is about the advancement of the human race.
Also Walters isn't a story writer, but a character writer which shows since whatever plot line he writes is mediocre at best. I have nothing against him, but someone should tell him to stop writing stories and stick with creating characters.
I agree. Walters is a Great character writer. Dude wrote Thane, Grunt, Kasumi, and Miri in ME2. He knows his character writing.
Dude wrote ME3's main plot....
Again, the departure of Drew K. is what hindered ME3's plot the most.
They have Reaper tech in them and the lore clearly states. "If you have Reaper tech in you or you spend long period near it, you be under the influence of the Reapers (unless you are the Main character then you are immune until the plot says other wise)" this has been proven time and time again more specifically in the novels and of course the games.
No its not. Grunt was made with the help of Reaper tech, EDI as well, Legion has Reaper Tech and all the geth if you let them live on Rannoch. The goddammed Citadel and the relays themselves are reaper tech. Everyone that lives on the citadel should be indoctinated if your statement would be true.
That clarification aside. I never said that Cerberbus was not indoctrinated. The cerberus troops are indoctrinaed by TIM and follow him blindly. He in turn is in the process of being indoctrinated by the Reapers and is already influenced by them heavily but not completely under their control yet.
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