44 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

As we all know, in the Human Noble Origin, the PC, who will soon become a Grey Warden, is left in charge of the affairs of his father's theyrnir while he and Fergus fought against the Darkspawn.

However, was this not a poor idea? We hear during the Origin how many outside of the halls of Highever how many speculate that the younger son is more likely to suceed Bryce Cousland. And yet, despite this, Bryce leave him/her in charge of Highever in place of his heir or his heir's wife, who has given him a grandson I might add?

Was Bryce deliberately trying to pit his children against one another? By placing the PC in charge, he is getting the common accostumed to take orders from him/her; which might give Fergus some trouble when the time to inherit comes; and if Bryce and Fergus were to die in the battlefield, the PC would be in a perfect position to steal Highever from his/her newphew and sister-in-law who, by all rights, should be the heirs to the whole theyrnir.

 

It would make much more sense to leave Fergus and take the PC to Ostagar; younger sons being the warriors while older sons were the commanders was very common; in order to train Fergus in how to rule Highever or, failling that, leave his wife in charge of it. She will be the lady of the castle one day, after all.

[Xilizhra]

If I had to guess, in Ferelden, if an heir has children but dies before assuming the title, the title will pass onto the next of the teyrn's children instead of the child of the heir. If Fergus has military experience enough that he'd be a good commander, I imagine Bryce would prefer another of his children in charge if they both die, as opposed to a little kid whose Antivan mother might become regent.

[luna1124]

You forget, the younger female Cousland "Pup" is also left in charge of the castle, not just the male.

[Xilizhra]

You forget, the younger female Cousland "Pup" is also left in charge of the castle, not just the male.

Hence why I said "next of the teyrn's children." A daughter is still an immediate descendent of the teyrn, and Thedas' gender equality is noticeably better than ours was at the equivalent time.

[luna1124]

^^I did not have enough coffee this morning^^ Sorry

[Bomboolee]

To be honest, I'd always interpreted that comment as being a bit of obsequious, sycophantic flattery of the type PC is no doubt used to hearing a lot of. A lesser noble, Dairren, attempting to curry favour with the PC. That kind of thing. There's a lot of that in the Dwarven Noble story too, iirc. (edit: spelling)

[DarthGizka]

Sorry, you completely lost me here. Where did Dairren spring from all of a sudden? My pups always tell him to go soak his head, that's all I remember...

[Bomboolee]

I thought Diarren was the one who said the PC was more likely to succeed the teyrn than Fergus during the conversation in the castle study. I could be wrong. I don't remember hearing it anywhere else, at least. I just assumed it was sycophantic rubbish on his part because everyone in Highever knew what an irresponsible, brash little so-and-so my Warden was.

 

(Edit: Just looked up the dialog tree in the toolset, in a fit of boredom:

 

"Everyone says that you're more likely to succeed the teyrn than your brother is. That the Cousland line has never been stronger.

 

I don't know about here, but outside your castle, people discuss your family a great deal. Some say your father should have been king instead of Cailan.

 

But it is just talk, I think, borne of affection for your father.")

[Cat Lance]

(Edit: Just looked up the dialog tree in the toolset, in a fit of boredom:

"Everyone says that you're more likely to succeed the teyrn than your brother is. That the Cousland line has never been stronger.

I don't know about here, but outside your castle, people discuss your family a great deal. Some say your father should have been king instead of Cailan.

But it is just talk, I think, borne of affection for your father.")

I think that was meant more to illustrate why your family is massacred by Howe and Loghain, than as a true indication of your father's intentions regarding inheritance.

Edit: Also life was never a guaranteed thing, second in line was normally groomed, just in case.

[Monica21]

I think that getting maids and servants used to taking orders from the younger Cousland is less important than the Cousland troops getting used to Fergus in a command position, which is what happens when Bryce sends him off without him. And really, that's all the PC is doing. Fergus has the much more difficult job. When you talk to Gilmore he can tell you that he's not riding with the troops because Bryce wanted to leave him behind to help guard the castle. And when the castle actually is attacked, Gilmore is the one defending the gate and giving orders so you can leave. I always got the impression that being "in charge" of the castle was just managing household duties and probably keeping an eye on the troops, but that Gilmore was the one who was actually in charge of them.

 

By placing the PC in charge, Bryce is likely either trying to get a male ready to take over his own bannorn, or a female ready to manage household tasks of her noble husband.

[Hazegurl]

I know one thing is for certain. My Warden was more than willing to run Highever and he never would have turned it over to a little boy and his "Cousland" mother. Leaving a Cousland by marriage in charge would have been a bad idea, imo. They could just as easily come home to find her in power and the gates locked or worse, they all die at Ostagar and she ends up running the show with no desire to hand power to the grandson. That sounds way too risky. But I do think think leaving Bryce in charge at home would have been better. Unless Bryce was leading his own men. In which case it makes total sense not hand his unit to his brother.

[Bomboolee]

Fair point about grooming a back-up teyrn. I just feel the symbolism of having Fergus lead Highever's men into battle militates heavily in favour of the conclusion that Bryce favoured Fergus over The Warden, and not the other way around. Especially given the role Gilmore takes after the attack, as Monica21 points out. Whatever anyone else says about succession rumours etc, is likely just empty flattery imo.

[Cat Lance]

Yes, I wasn't meaning it as mm indication that Pup was being groomed to replace a living Fergus. Only that if it came to it the Pup needed to know how to steward as well.

[Ferretinabun]

I think Monica21 is nearest the mark - I imagine winning some honours in battle is important for a Teryn. I imagine Bryce is imagining he is sending Fergus off to win his spurs against the darkspawn (and thus prove his worth to rule), while the younger child stays behind and does 'admin' work.

[Ferretinabun]

Too much 'imagining' going on in that last post. Must buy a thesaurus. 

[Mike3207]

I think in a conversation with Fergus about not going with him and your father Oriana says something like, "Surely your father would not put both of his heirs in danger!".

 

I take from that Fergus is the primary heir, and the PC is the secondary heir. There is sort of confirmation at the end when you say, "Is Fergus the new Teyrn?" and Bryce responds, "Yes, if he lives."

 

This is a bit puzzling to me, in light of Fergus disappearance at Ostagar. Duncan seems to totally ignore the Cousland PC's status as the sole remaining heir of Highever, and take any dialogue about Fergus as all about vengeance. Some of that is the PC being considered a attainted traitor, but it seems to really be a issue as far as continuing to make the Cousland a Warden. If he's the only heir, you should be able to tell Duncan you can't become a Warden because you're the sole heir to Highever and need to continue the line.

[DarthGizka]

I believe we must defeat the darkspawn, one way or another. My opinions end there.

 

(Darth Duncan in the library, during the mage origin)

[Monica21]

Not that he would care. Duncan also ignores the city elf and dwarf commoner being wanted criminals that should face execution, and the mage being bound for either execution or Aeonar. Why? Because the darkspawn are more pressing. Everyone in Thedas needs to respect the Right of Constriction over their own desires for an individual (be they criminal for execution, mage for the Circle, or noble set to inherit) for a reason. Getting much-needed suitable recruits to stop the Blight that can wipe out all life on the planet is more important than socially-constructed inheritances or politics.

 

I think stopping the darkspawn is more important to Duncan than the last blood child of some high-born noble getting a castle.

This. And your own father, bleeding to death on the floor, doesn't do anything to disagree. As he's dying he's essentially saying that he's willing to lose his ternyr to save Ferelden from the Blight.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

 

I think stopping the darkspawn is more important to Duncan than the last blood child of some high-born noble getting a castle.

 

It's also a game developer ploy, railroading the PC into a certain direction by ignoring other things that may be important to the PC.

[Shadow Fox]

Actually according to Bryce it's mostly your mother that's stopping you from going into battle, Fergus even says your parents have been fighting about it for days if you're male.

[Monica21]

Actually according to Bryce it's mostly your mother that stopping you from going into battle, Fergus even says your parents have been fighting about it for days if you're male.

Very true. I'd completely forgotten about that.