579 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

I just realized that I should just open up the damn scene in the toolset and see for myself.

 

Edit: hmm. there's a dog there, all right. But there doesn't seem to be any associated scripting. OTOH, I don't think they'd need any.

[DarthGizka]

(regarding Morrigan's line "Refuse my offer, however, and I leave now. This is... simply how it must be.")
 

Right. I saw this in my first playthrough (romanced Morrigan, Warden went US). She shapeshifts and sneaks out of the castle.
 
There was a rumor that she attends the Warden's funeral in shifted form. Anyone know if this is really true?

Am at my laptop now, so I could check using the toolset (earlier I only had SQL access). It looks like you have to be in romance with Morrigan in order to get that line; in all other cases she simply walks out on you without prior warning. Which is why I couldn't remember her ever giving such a warning. Only my first Warden romanced her, and he died at level 10.

The dog standing next to Sten in a post-coronation save is the same make and model as shapeshifted Morrigan after you've given her the boot. It could be Morrigan, or it could be Barkspawn newest plaything (given that we never allow him to keep "Puppy!"). Who knows...

[Ryzaki]

I'm never quite sure how Morrigan got the reputation for being any more manipulative than Wynne is. They both try and talk the Warden into stuff.

 

Wynne offers really bad advice but never boxes the warden into a corner like Morrigan does.

 

 

(regarding Morrigan's line "Refuse my offer, however, and I leave now. This is... simply how it must be.")
 

Am at my laptop now, so I could check using the toolset (earlier I only had SQL access). It looks like you have to be in romance with Morrigan in order to get that line; in all other cases she simply walks out on you without prior warning. Which is why I couldn't remember her ever giving such a warning. Only my first Warden romanced her and he died at level 10.

The dog standing next to Sten in a post-coronation save is the same make and model as shapeshifted Morrigan after you've given her the boot. It could be Morrigan, or it could be Barkspawn newest plaything (given that we never allow him to keep "Puppy!"). Who knows...

 

Ah. So I guess she only pulls that card if she's romancing the warden. fair enough.

[Milan92]

Wynne offers really bad advice but never boxes the warden into a corner like Morrigan does.

 

 

 

Ah. So I guess she only pulls that card if she's romancing the warden. fair enough.

 

"You break up right now with that LI in order to avoid pain! Or you shall find me waking up to you the next day!"

[Xetykins]

"You break up right now with that LI in order to avoid pain! Or you shall find me waking up to you the next day!"

I will now and forever make sure I've got spikes around my bed. I like her but not THAT much!

[Ryzaki]

"You break up right now with that LI in order to avoid pain! Or you shall find me waking up to you the next day!"

 

Man that mental image O_o

[AlanC9]

Wynne offers really bad advice but never boxes the warden into a corner like Morrigan does.

 

 

Really? Wynne outright attacks the Warden if you destroy the Urn, doesn't she? All Morrigan does is dump a Warden who won't do what she wants.

[Ryzaki]

Really? Wynne outright attacks the Warden if you destroy the Urn, doesn't she? All Morrigan does is dump a Warden who won't do what she wants.

 

So does Leliana.

 

And of course lie about the reason she's there, lie about her mother (and have them try to kill said mother) and not bother telling you about the whole "you'll die if you kill the archdemon.", and then try to emotionally manipulate you into doing the DR if you're resistant to it. Morrigan does more than Wynne does.

[DarthGizka]

Leliana losing it I can understand, but Wynne? Same thing at the Circle, where she goes ballistic if you let Morrigan goad her. Seems out of character. Only an utter moron could believe the Chantry propaganda about apostates and blood magic to such extent that the reaction is visceral instead of reasoned. By the way, does anyone know of a mod that restores the cut parts where blood magic is the casus belli?

[KaiserShep]

I don't think Morrigan really boxes the Warden into a corner with the Dark Ritual offer, and she kind of does make a good point. From a player's perspective, we're inclined to just believe anything an NPC tells us, but in-game, the Warden has every reason to doubt what Morrigan may have to say about what she knows of the archdemon and what it takes to slay it. I assume that Riordan provided the perfect opportunity in that a more reliable source can break the news first, and she may have done it anyway should no other Warden present him/herself before the final battle. Either way, it'll have to come up somehow. Whether it's now or when Morrigan first left the Kocari Wilds with them doesn't really change that. As for convincing the Warden to fight Flemeth, I never got the impression that she was holding back anything she supposedly knew, and she even admits that she was wrong about Flemeth at the time when you catch up to her in Witch Hunt. I can't really recall anything beyond these two instances where Morrigan can be considered to be manipulating the Warden. Most of the time, she's outright objecting to certain acts of kindness or generosity or throwing away a potential resource (like the Anvil) as a waste of time.

[Ryzaki]

Leliana losing it I can understand, but Wynne? Same thing at the Circle, where she goes ballistic if you let Morrigan goad her. Seems out of character. Only an utter moron could believe the Chantry propaganda about apostates and blood magic to such extent that the reaction is visceral instead of reasoned. By the way, does anyone know of a mod that restores the cut parts where blood magic is the casus belli?

 

She goes ballistic if you agree with Morrigan that they should all be killed

 

Though the bloodmagic then is stupid but also not canon.

[Han Shot First]

Wrong. The point that's been debated for the last day or so is that consent is nil if it is coerced.

 

Good thing there was no coercion then.

 

 

 

[co·erce verb \kō-ˈərs\

: to make (someone) do something by using force or threats

 

Merriam-Webster

 

 

Where did either Morrigan or the Warden use force or threats to compel Alistair to do the DR? They gave him a sales pitch, and he bought in of his own free will.

 

By your extremely loose (and incorrect) definition of coercion, panhandlers and beggars would be hauled in for robbery.

[Tommy6860]

By the way, does anyone know of a mod that restores the cut parts where blood magic is the casus belli?

 

You mean this part that was removed from the game where you can kill all of the Mages and Templars as well as Wynne? The mod is called "Dialogue Tweaks" and it restores quite a lot of stuff that was removed from the final release of DA:O, and can be gotten here?

[AlanC9]

So does Leliana.

And of course lie about the reason she's there, lie about her mother (and have them try to kill said mother) and not bother telling you about the whole "you'll die if you kill the archdemon.", and then try to emotionally manipulate you into doing the DR if you're resistant to it. Morrigan does more than Wynne does.

Right, Leliana too.

I don't see how Morrigan not mentioning what she knows earlier is all that significant. It's an issue because it might have changed what you did with Loghain, but it wouldn't change the overall situation.

[Ryzaki]

Right, Leliana too.

I don't see how Morrigan not mentioning what she knows earlier is all that significant. It's an issue because it might have changed what you did with Loghain, but it wouldn't change the overall situation.

 

Uh...if it changed what you did with Loghain it'd been completely unnecessary for many of my Wardens. So yeah...

[theskymoves]

 

Good thing there was no coercion then.

 

 

 

 

Merriam-Webster

 

 

Where did either Morrigan or the Warden use force or threats to compel Alistair to do the DR? They gave him a sales pitch, and he bought in of his own free will.

 

By your extremely loose (and incorrect) definition of coercion, panhandlers and beggars would be hauled in for robbery.

 

From the complete definition at your link:

 

1:  to restrain or dominate by force
2:  to compel to an act or choice
3:  to achieve by force or threat

 

And from dictionary.com (which uses the Random House dictionary):

 

1. to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition

2. to bring about through the use of force or other forms of compulsion
3. to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.

[gottaloveme]

Faerunner

 

Morrigan is a character out of celtic legends. One of three battlemaiden sisters. It means Queen of Battle or some such. She may also be called The Morrigan.

 

This is in addition to what you said about DG's friend.

[AlanC9]

Uh...if it changed what you did with Loghain it'd been completely unnecessary for many of my Wardens. So yeah...

But how is this manipulative? Obnoxious, secretive, annoying... sure. But she isn't holding back the information in order to get the Warden to do something.

[gottaloveme]

Also there is a random conversation Alistair has with Morrigan re: getting it on with his fellow grey warden. She asks him what will happen should one of them die killing the archd. Alistair opts out of that chat. But, having played through, hearing that dialogue again sounds very much

 

I can't seem to delete this dang post so please don't worry 'bout it

[Mike3207]

Morrigan admits that she's manipulative. It happens in one of the Dog cutscenes right after you visit Camp for the first time.

[Ryzaki]

But how is this manipulative? Obnoxious, secretive, annoying... sure. But she isn't holding back the information in order to get the Warden to do something.

 

You don't see how herding someone towards the route you want is manipulative? or trying to bring up their lover as a reason why they should do something they want you to do? (The first thing she tries to argue is you want to live and then she argues about glory if you let the other person die instead). You and I have very different ideas of manipulative then.

 

The bolded is EXACTLY what she's doing. She won't even tell you what she'll do with the kid (probably because it'd change some wardens minds).

[kalasaurus]

Both Zevran and Alistair suspect that Morrigan has ulterior motives for following the Warden, too.

 

Zevran in one of his banters with Morrigan when in a romance with the Warden:

Morrigan: That is wily of you, Zevran.

Zevran: What is so wily of me, o magical temptress?

Morrigan: Getting in the good graces of the one who decides whether you live or die. Not to mention the one who can protect you against your former comrades.

Zevran: And I am supposed to believe you are here because of a... sense of patriotism, perhaps?

Morrigan: Ha! Hardly that.

Zevran: We all have our reasons for doing what we do. Mine happen to come with a set of lovely eyes.

 

Edit: Also, when Morrigan is in a romance with the Warden, alluding directly to the Dark Ritual:

Zevran: I see your friendship with the Grey Warden is going very well.

Morrigan: Is there a reason you say that with a smirk, elf?

Zevran: I think you know. You and I are not so dissimilar after all. I know what you are doing, lovely woman.

Morrigan: And what is it that you think I am doing? Besides the Grey Warden that is.

Zevran: Biding your time, naturally. But for what, I wonder?

Morrigan: Why don't you ask him, if you're so curious.

Zevran: I doubt that he even knows. I am content to wait and see for myself, however.

Morrigan: Then don't bring it up again.

 

 

Alistair during his "juicy gossip":

Alistair: Morrigan... do you trust her?  Think about it... maybe Flemeth sent her with us for some other reason than she said?

[Tommy6860]

Both Zevran and Alistair suspect that Morrigan has ulterior motives for following the Warden, too.

 

Zevran in one of his banters with Morrigan when in a romance with the Warden:

 

 

Alistair during his "juicy gossip":

 

 

Add aslo when the GW ask s Alistair, "You really don;t like Morrigan, do you" and he replies, "Outside of the fact that she's a complete and utter ******, no!, I don't like her at all!". I got the feeling he would offer nothing positive about her no matter how much I would approve of her, even if from just being practical with a following reply.

[kalasaurus]

Add aslo when the GW ask s Alistair, "You really don;t like Morrigan, do you" and he replies, "Outside of the fact that she's a complete and utter ******, no!, I don't like her at all!". I got the feeling he would offer nothing positive about her no matter how much I would approve of her, even if from just being practical with a following reply.

 

True.  Or, when the Warden says:

Warden: What reason do you think she'd have to betray us?

Alistair: Hello!?  Have you seen her?  I think she'd need to have a reason not betray us.

 

He just happens to be dead-on in his suspicion of Morrigan and Flemeth.

[AlanC9]

You don't see how herding someone towards the route you want is manipulative? or trying to bring up their lover as a reason why they should do something they want you to do? (The first thing she tries to argue is you want to live and then she argues about glory if you let the other person die instead). You and I have very different ideas of manipulative then.
 
The bolded is EXACTLY what she's doing. She won't even tell you what she'll do with the kid (probably because it'd change some wardens minds).

Wait.... you're saying that she doesn't tell the Warden about the DR earlier because she's worried that he'll decide to make Loghain into a Grey Warden, and so there might be less need for the DR? I wasn't aware precognition was one of her abilities.