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[Cat Lance]

I wish a human noble could have expressed an interest in recruiting Zevran with having him take out Howe in mind.

Could have added a layer to that.

Also, various of my Warden's have had sane reasons for recruiting Sten. But the two that are universally a part of their reasoning is that it does more for this world for him to save lives, rather than to simply die.

And that as a bad ass ****** she can handle him if she feels it necessary.

[DarthGizka]

If Zathrian had not relented when near death after you sided against him, everyone would still be cursed including the dalish. As long as they were cursed they were unable to join the war. That's the whole point of curing them. You were taking an idealistic stand by turning against your blight ally for what you believe is right. You have no idea at that point that the werewolves could ever be allies either.

You are equating Zathrian with the Dalish. Confronting Zathrian was necessary for getting to the bottom of things and also for lifting the curse, under which the Dalish were suffering as well as the weres. If it had turned out that the situation could only be resolved by killing either the weres or the Dalish then a choice would have had to be made. As you well know, such a choice was not necessary.

The demon inside Connor was responsible for undead hordes attacking Redcliffe at night. Are you to assume the possessed Connor would just play with his toys as the Warden spends days running to the Circle and back. And what of Ferelden? How many darkspawn are killing people while the Warden spends all this time formulating a ritual that may save one child. And if it fails the mage going into the fade is dead and Connor will have to be slaughtered anyway.

The ability of the team to contain the situation - by killing Connor, should that turn out to be necessary - does not hinge on the presence of one single person. And the team is bigger than the four that we are allowed to take into battle anyway.
 

There wasn't any way to know if any of the remaining mages were abominations. Gregoir takes Irving at his word unless you persuade him to do otherwise. It could've turned out they were still possessed and would slaughter the templars shortly after you left. I have no idea what measures they take to discover who is an abomination but just letting the remaining mages who had been locked away with other abominations be free is a big risk.

I said that the risk was not higher than normal. What you describe is the normal situation.

As I said, false dichotomies and half-assed lore/plots. Pure Gaider.

[Ryzaki]

As for recruiting Zevran I usually kill him but my HN felt bad for him because of the whole raised into it thing. He wanted to give the man a chance to change (He's an optimist). CE recruited him cause she intrigued by an assassin elf.

[congokong]

You are equating Zathrian with the Dalish. Confronting Zathrian was necessary for getting to the bottom of things and also for lifting the curse, under which the Dalish were suffering as well as the weres. If it had turned out that the situation could only be resolved by killing either the weres or the Dalish then a choice would have had to be made. As you well know, such a choice was not necessary.


The ability of the team to contain the situation - by killing Connor, should that turn out to be necessary - does not hinge on the presence of one single person. And the team is bigger than the four that we are allowed to take into battle anyway.
 

I said that the risk was not higher than normal. What you describe is the normal situation.

As I said, false dichotomies and half-assed lore/plots. Pure Gaider.

I don't think I can explain this any better. Confronting Zathrian was only necessary if you gave a damn about the werewolves. Zathrian already told you what was needed to lift the curse for his people. When Zathrian refused to end the curse, you had to take a side. By siding against Zathrian you risked killing him in battle; leaving both the dalish at camp and the werewolves forever cursed. By siding with Zathrian you do something morally wrong by aiding someone who has cursed innocents for the reward of dalish aid against the blight. Conveniently, you can have it both ways because the game allows Zathrian to back down and end the curse when near death, thus curing everyone and still getting the dalish. Happy days.

 

As for Connor, no one killed Connor before the warden showed up. Why would it be any different after the warden left? Considering how difficult it is to take possessed Connor down it's not so easy as, "If he causes trouble we'll kill him." As long as he lives, Redcliffe is in danger. Leaving is incredibly risky.

 

The risk is higher for the mages because there's a much higher chance than normal that they're possessed considering what just happened. There should be some quarantine at least.

[congokong]

Actually, it is possible that at redcliffe your team is just four people. If you don't get the dog and don't pick up sten or leliana (I never get sten anymore or the dog because I'm sick of that barking in my camp) then my team is just four and so I am abandoning them to save the boy. Now I just do an end run and clear the circle first then go to redcliffe and let that shrew isolade pay for her many sins in blood. Eamon and Alistair are fine with that outcome. Works for me because I don't have to do multiple stops and since I ride a mage most of the time going to the circle first makes the most sense to me because my warden would figure getting Irving to help after everything that just went down would be easy and should probably be the first thing to knock off the list and keep morale up. Quick and easy right? That's how she figures it will go down until she gets there and learns otherwise.

 

Yeah, on my first run for most of the game it was just me, Alistair, Morrigan, and dog. Leliana died over pottery, Shale over the anvil, Wynne over those pesky mages, and I never recruited Sten or Zevran.

[Cat Lance]

I can see it on certain characters. If my Dalish killed the humans in the beginning of their origin, then maybe they'll feel bad about it. Maybe they'll develop into being a forgiving person. Maybe they understand Sten's need for atonement.
 
Or maybe not. Just saying. That could be one rationale.
 
I can't find a rationale for my human noble. He just saw his family betrayed by someone they knew, and on top of that, saw his little nephew's little body stabbed to death. Coupling that with his noble upbringing, I really can't see this guy suddenly doing the whole "It's all good-I forgive everyone-even child killers and assassins" act. I'm finding it hard to make that leap, if I want to realistically imagine how my Cousland thinks.

Yeah, everyone role plays their characters differently. I was just saying that I've definitely had wardens who recruited him without meta gaming.

I mentioned a possible reason for a human noble for Zevran, but i get that no matter what recruiting him is living dangerously! Lol

[Ryzaki]

It's been centuries, the people who did the damage are already dead and his own people are suffering for a grudge that's been long fulfilled is why he gets over it.

 

It's not like it's a couple of years after the incident happened. Eventually some things have to be let go for your own benefit if nothing else.

[congokong]

Now I just do an end run and clear the circle first then go to redcliffe and let that shrew isolade pay for her many sins in blood. Eamon and Alistair are fine with that outcome. Works for me because I don't have to do multiple stops and since I ride a mage most of the time going to the circle first makes the most sense to me because my warden would figure getting Irving to help after everything that just went down would be easy and should probably be the first thing to knock off the list and keep morale up. Quick and easy right? That's how she figures it will go down until she gets there and learns otherwise.

Wait, Alistair is alright with Jowan's ritual? Maybe you've encountered the bug where you click "I think that went well, don't you?" after the quest is over at camp. That line is meant for the Circle solution; not Jowan's. Clicking any other response causes him to scream at you for sacrificing Isolde for blood magic.

 

I usually head to Redcliffe first because it logically makes most sense without meta-gaming. You know after Lothering that Eamon is sick and therefore may not have much time left. Alistair also recommends it. I don't think he's as stupid as he believes. Morrigan on the other hand gives awful advice quite often and yet thinks she's so much smarter than Alistair.

 

EDIT: By referring to Isolde pay for her sins in blood, do you mean Jowan's ritual?

[Ryzaki]

"When are you ever going to learn to resent the humans properly?" - Tamlen

 

Ugh another bitter reminder of only Dalish elves in DA:I.

 

*weeps bitterly*

 

CE we hardly knew ye.

 

Seriously though I'm pretty sure the decisive factor was him throwing his own people under the bus over crap that's been dealt with long ago.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 avril 2014 - 09:13 .

[congokong]

It's been centuries, the people who did the damage are already dead and his own people are suffering for a grudge that's been long fulfilled is why he gets over it.

 

It's not like it's a couple of years after the incident happened. Eventually some things have to be let go for your own benefit if nothing else.

I agree with StreetMagic. It's too convenient. It reminds me too much of the paragon instant-win solutions of Mass Effect.

 

Think about it. Zathrian has been watching his people suffer and die from the curse before the warden shows up. Zathrian knew how to end it easily that whole time but refused. He's also been content with letting innocent people suffer from it for centuries. Him changing his mind when he's about to die anyway is, again, too convenient. Sticking to your principles should bite you in the ass in games like it does in real life.

[congokong]

How did Leliana die over pottery?

The Urn of Sacred Ashes.

 

The whole story is at the bottom of this page.

 

http://forum.bioware...ers-here/page-5

[Ryzaki]

I agree with StreetMagic. It's too convenient. It reminds me too much of the paragon instant-win solutions of Mass Effect.

 

Think about it. Zathrian has been watching his people suffer and die from the curse before the warden shows up. Zathrian knew how to end it easily that whole time but refused. He's also been content with letter innocent people suffer from it for centuries. Him changing his mind when he's about to die anyway is, again, too convenient. Sticking to your principles should bite you in the ass in games like it does in real life.

 

What paragon instant win solution?

 

Even if Zatharian HAD gone there alone what makes you think Swiftrunner and them wouldn't have instantly attacked? Needing a neutral third party to ease hostilities is nothing new. Also those innocent people weren't his people. His clan being affected by the curse is recent. And he does care about them.

 

If he dies without curing the curse it hurts his clan as well as the werewolves. His clan is more than likely going to be the first target for the werewolves rage (and to make more werewolves) and without him alive to protect them...well they're screwed. Sticking to his principles does nothing but hurt his people and the wolves (who are people who didn't even do him any harm). It's being petty and spiteful for the sake of being petty and spiteful and eventually one gets tired of that.

[Shadow Fox]

I agree with StreetMagic. It's too convenient. It reminds me too much of the paragon instant-win solutions of Mass Effect.

 

Think about it. Zathrian has been watching his people suffer and die from the curse before the warden shows up. Zathrian knew how to end it easily that whole time but refused. He's also been content with letting innocent people suffer from it for centuries. Him changing his mind when he's about to die anyway is, again, too convenient. Sticking to your principles should bite you in the ass in games like it does in real life.

Well you could let the Werewolves murder the Dalish for revenge but then you're no better than Zathrian.

[Cat Lance]

I agree with StreetMagic. It's too convenient. It reminds me too much of the paragon instant-win solutions of Mass Effect.
 
Think about it. Zathrian has been watching his people suffer and die from the curse before the warden shows up. Zathrian knew how to end it easily that whole time but refused. He's also been content with letting innocent people suffer from it for centuries. Him changing his mind when he's about to die anyway is, again, too convenient. Sticking to your principles should bite you in the ass in games like it does in real life.

But this was the first time anyone had called him on his bull ****. Before this only the Lady knew. He hid behind his lies and soaked up adoration as a Keeper who had a long life. For the first time he was forced to confront reality.  

How did Leliana die over pottery?

Andraste's ashes

[congokong]

What paragon instant win solution?

 

Even if Zatharian HAD gone there alone what makes you think Swiftrunner and them wouldn't have instantly attacked? Needing a neutral third party to ease hostilities is nothing new. Also those innocent people weren't his people. His clan being affected by the curse is recent. And he does care about them.

 

If he dies without curing the curse it hurts his clan as well as the werewolves. His clan is more than likely going to be the first target for the werewolves rage (and to make more werewolves) and without him alive to protect them...well they're screwed. Sticking to his principles does nothing but hurt his people and the wolves (who are people who didn't even do him any harm). It's being petty and spiteful for the sake of being petty and spiteful and eventually one gets tired of that.

 

You're assuming that Zathrian is being rational. Considering he's plagued descendants of people who harmed his family for centuries shows rational is the last thing he is. He believes it's "justice."

 

It is paragon instant-win. That's why he breaks the curse when you stick to idealism. Otherwise he'd die without doing so. Then the paragon warden would have a dead Zathrian, cursed dalish, and the werewolves. But at least their honor would still be intact.

 

I feel like I'm just paraphrasing what I've already said here.