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[Master Warder Z_]

and his Mother.

 

Father as well.

 

._.

 

Maker take you into his hands Garreth Mac Tir.

[Lulupab]

That wasn't his point.  In Mask of the empire, one of the chevaliers actually remarks on some of his fellows take the chivalry aspects too far- no attack by surprise, no tricks in a fight, no unfair advantages etc.

 

Being a chevalier just means you are of noble birth and had someone pay the very high tuition to send you to what amounts to a very fancy knight school.  In which you learn some very good skills and become what are regarded as the best knights in Thedas.  Just because they can kill commoners with impunity doesn't make them all evil bastards.

 

Since slavery is allowed in nobility of Orlais, that makes Chevaliers none-mage Magisters. Hypocrisy at its finest and best.

[wcholcombe]

That made his reaction to Cailan's proclamation about impending Orlesian troops entering Ferelden (which outnumbered the amount of troops he fought at the Battle of River Dane) all the more understandable.

War is hell and the men who make it often worse.

I am quite certain we could find horrendous examples of Ferelden behavior during their far more frequent wars with the Chasind or vice versa.

Not excusing it, but I am also not going to blanket an entire order when we have seen an example of the good of the order, especially when it isn't the order itself that teaches them to be thugs, its how they are raised.

[Divine Justinia V]

War is hell and the men who make it often worse.

I am quite certain we could find horrendous examples of Ferelden behavior during their far more frequent wars with the Chasind or vice versa.

Not excusing it, but I am also not going to blanket an entire order when we have seen an example of the good of the order, especially when it isn't the order itself that teaches them to be thugs, its how they are raised.

 

How many good examples have you seen, exactly though?

[wcholcombe]

Since slavery is allowed in nobility of Orlais, that makes Chevaliers none-mage Magisters. Hypocrisy at its finest and best.

Really, we had to bring slavery over from the mage templar debate?  Commoners and elves are treated to harsh lives in orlais, but slavery is outlawed.  Is it practiced in secret? Sure, does that make everyone a slave holder or that slavery is rampant? no.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That wasn't his point.  In Mask of the empire, one of the chevaliers actually remarks on some of his fellows take the chivalry aspects too far- no attack by surprise, no tricks in a fight, no unfair advantages etc.

 

Being a chevalier just means you are of noble birth and had someone pay the very high tuition to send you to what amounts to a very fancy knight school.  In which you learn some very good skills and become what are regarded as the best knights in Thedas.  Just because they can kill commoners with impunity doesn't make them all evil bastards.

So so far this one is the exception rather than the rule. As I said, it is up to them to change my perception. When so far the majority of Chevaliers we hear about do terrible things, I will consider them terrible. And yes, killing or raping innocent commoners for no reason is pretty much a staple point for "evil".

 

 

You don't want to delve too deeply into Medieval lore then...

 

Noble Privilege extended to a lot back then.

Oh, I know medieval lore. I hate that too. 

[LobselVith8]

War is hell and the men who make it often worse.

I am quite certain we could find horrendous examples of Ferelden behavior during their far more frequent wars with the Chasind or vice versa.

Not excusing it, but I am also not going to blanket an entire order when we have seen an example of the good of the order, especially when it isn't the order itself that teaches them to be thugs, its how they are raised.

 

I think the Orlesian portrayals will get some improvement, since we've seen some of their worst so far.

 

Spoiler

"The Masked Empire" did a fair job in providing three-dimensional characters (where Celene and Gaspard are two of the main characters), at least as far as the main characters. Even when someone did something reprehensible, like Celene, they aren't cast as some one-dimensional caricature.

[Cainhurst Crow]

If we get a Chevalier as a companion, I want to be able to murderknife them. I don't like Chevaliers. 
Partially because the name sounds too much like Chevrolet.

Their name comes from being Chivalrous.

[Lulupab]

Really, we had to bring slavery over from the mage templar debate?  Commoners and elves are treated to harsh lives in orlais, but slavery is outlawed.  Is it practiced in secret? Sure, does that make everyone a slave holder or that slavery is rampant? no.

 

Everything is done "in secret" in Orlais. Magister kill with blood magic Orlesian nobles kill with poisoned cheese.

 

Murder is murder. Slavery is slavery. Everything else is irrelevant.

[wcholcombe]

How many good examples have you seen, exactly though?

Well considering Mask of the Empire is the first true honest look at Orlais culture? 1 so far. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

How many good examples have you seen, exactly though?

How many examples period?

[wcholcombe]

My point is, it isn't like the Chevaliers all live together and such.  They are just nobles who had the talent and could afford to go to the academy.  Being a chevalier doesn't make you a bastard, you are or you aren't that before you arrive.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Since slavery is allowed in nobility of Orlais, that makes Chevaliers none-mage Magisters. Hypocrisy at its finest and best.

Lol fereldans have servants, does that make everyone in fereldan a magister equivalent as well?

Also never remember hearing any stories of orlisians going on slaver expeditions to kidnap people from other countries, or having to break up any orlesian slaver rings.

Meanwhile we had to do that twice for the imperium in 2 different countries.

[The Baconer]

It would be nice to get more of a firsthand perspective of their order.

 

It would also be interesting to hear his opinion regarding the things I will (probably) be doing to his homeland.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

My point is, it isn't like the Chevaliers all live together and such.  They are just nobles who had the talent and could afford to go to the academy.  Being a chevalier doesn't make you a bastard, you are or you aren't that before you arrive.

And I'm sure the "You can do whatever you want in exchange and suffer no penalties" had absolutely nothing at all to do with that. Power corrupts, after all. 

[wcholcombe]

And I'm sure the "You can do whatever you want in exchange and suffer no penalties" had absolutely nothing at all to do with that. Power corrupts, after all. 

Well, as my understanding, that comes from them being nobles first, so being a chevalier doesn't truly change that.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Well same in ever society, give people too much power and poof, they go off the deep end. Doesn't mean we judge every chevalier alike. After all I don't think aveline was a rotten person and her dad was a chevalier. So they must not all be orphan raping kitten stompers.

[TheKomandorShepard]

My point is, it isn't like the Chevaliers all live together and such.  They are just nobles who had the talent and could afford to go to the academy.  Being a chevalier doesn't make you a bastard, you are or you aren't that before you arrive.

In country that promotes coruption and allows you get away with it even among law enforcers and leaders you can expect only high-level corruption so it won't be suprise if most is corrupted and only minority is "noble" . 

[Sir JK]

I'd love a chevalier companion. Though I'd love if I could be a chevalier as well.

 

My point is, it isn't like the Chevaliers all live together and such.  They are just nobles who had the talent and could afford to go to the academy.  Being a chevalier doesn't make you a bastard, you are or you aren't that before you arrive.

 

WoT suggested that even commoners could become Chevaliers, listing it as a example of Orlais surprising degree of meritocracy.

[TK514]

And I'm sure the "You can do whatever you want in exchange and suffer no penalties" had absolutely nothing at all to do with that. Power corrupts, after all.

I love that phrase. Mainly because it tends to say more about the person using it than the hypothetical entity it is being used against.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

WoT suggested that even commoners could become Chevaliers, listing it as a example of Orlais surprising degree of meritocracy.

The wiki says only nobles can join.

[AresKeith]

You don't want to delve too deeply into Medieval lore then...

 

Noble Privilege extended to a lot back then.

 

They need to check their privilege

[Sir JK]

The wiki says only nobles can join.

 

Right... looked it up in WoT. I was technically wrong. Commoners cannot join the Chevaliers. However, on rare occasion well-off commoners are rewarded with a noble title.

[wcholcombe]

The wiki says only nobles can join.

In Mask of the Empire it gives the pretty strong impression that if you don't come from at least a minor distant noble family line, you can't join the Chevaliers, in fact it is a bit of a plot point early on.

[LobselVith8]

In Mask of the Empire it gives the pretty strong impression that if you don't come from at least a minor distant noble family line, you can't join the Chevaliers, in fact it is a bit of a plot point early on.

 

I received the same impression, especially (warning: spoilers for the later chapter):

 

Spoiler

in light of the revelation at the end about Michel's mother, which seems to legally invalidate his chevalier status.