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Militaristic aspects you want to see from the Inquisition


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#1
SerCambria358

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With the introduction of an army, what do you hope to see in DA:I

 

With the army being a new feature, im hoping for a lot of things. I hope moral comes into play in some way, im hoping we meet some unique individuals the Wade or Bodahn type characters, i hope our army reacts to the type of leader you become either fearing you or respecting you, maybe conspiring against you if a decision you make doesnt go well with them (similar to Awakening). If that moment does happen im hoping we can have the choice of punishing or excusing certain actions, both having their pros and cons.

 

Just some random thoughts and wishes, how about you guys? 


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#2
Enchant_m3nt

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As well as morals I want to be able to train them, send them out on different missions based on their skills. It would be cool if you had more of a personal connection to them too, obviously not all of them..but perhaps a few familiar generals or something that update you on progress regularly etc. I think having an entire army at your disposal has a lot of potential and hopefully that ends in an extravagant battle. 


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#3
ChrisRudson

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I want my Mage Inquisitor to be both feared and loved. Machiavelli would be proud. I also want a variety of armors for our army, somehow like on Awakening(Silver order), but with more differences on armor design based on their class. They should also allow us to punish soldiers for insubordination(if there would be any), either by being executed publicly or just imprisoned for a period of time. It would also be nice if we could have interactions with our soldiers, just like on our companions. It would show that our Inquisitor cares for his/her army.

 

Also, not an army thing, I want interrogation scenes for our Inquisitor(Sam Fisher-ish style or something better than that).


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#4
Jsixgun

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I would love some scenarios were we had to deal out judgments to our troops. That could be interesting.

Also if we got to customize a coat of arms that would be awesome, but I'm not counting on it.

#5
SerCambria358

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I would love some scenarios were we had to deal out judgments to our troops. That could be interesting.

Also if we got to customize a coat of arms that would be awesome, but I'm not counting on it.

Im hoping this piece is based on in-game content.

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#6
AresKeith

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Does hoping to have some level of customization for the troops count?



#7
Aimi

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I, for one, expect the same bizarre mixture of decent and dubious understanding of war that I've seen in all the previous BioWare games that I've played. For a similar reason, I also expect the player to engage in the same bizarre mixture of hands-on and hands-off activity as in previous games.

 

I also expect that the way war works will be appropriately mutated to fit a game context, because the reality of war would make for boring video games. So: a focus on set-piece battles and small raids by the Inquisitor's party, with those set-piece battles being more numerous than usual, quicker, and more destructive. Skirmishing is boring. Training is boring. Sieges are boring. Elastic defense is boring. Logistics are incredibly boring. Prebattle preparation and organization is boring. Battles where the two sides repeatedly smash into each other, withdraw, and try again are boring. Operational maneuver, while not boring (to me, at least), is very hard to structure in any game, let alone an RPG like this one.

 

To be clear, I don't expect that none of this things will happen, or that they will never be referenced, but I do expect them to largely take place off-screen, or conducted by others with minor reference at best to the Inquisitor. I also do not consider this to be a bad thing. Like I said, most of those things are boring. If I wanted to get down to the real business of discussing military leadership, I would go back to my dissertation.

 

Finally, I expect that many gamers, at least, will mistake character perspective for fact. This is a generalized problem, but I feel as though it is particularly acute when discussing military situations. Two salient examples are the endless debates over the Battle of Ostagar and over the Mass Effect 3 Reaper War. In both cases, there were endless arguments over what people believed to be true, what the game presented as fact, and what the game presented as perspective.


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#8
FilthyPlebianN7

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More beheadings



#9
DrBlingzle

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If we could apoint our own generals in the Inquisition that would be great. We could choose them based on their skill, reputation and morailty (willing to do anything in order to succeed, believes in protecting the innocent above all else, etc, etc). They could react to situations in different ways giving you a reason to choose your generals carefully. Problem with this is that bioware would have to spend a lot of time creating different candidates in order for us to have a large selection to choose from.
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#10
SerCambria358

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I, for one, expect the same bizarre mixture of decent and dubious understanding of war that I've seen in all the previous BioWare games that I've played. For a similar reason, I also expect the player to engage in the same bizarre mixture of hands-on and hands-off activity as in previous games.

 

I also expect that the way war works will be appropriately mutated to fit a game context, because the reality of war would make for boring video games. So: a focus on set-piece battles and small raids by the Inquisitor's party, with those set-piece battles being more numerous than usual, quicker, and more destructive. Skirmishing is boring. Training is boring. Sieges are boring. Elastic defense is boring. Logistics are incredibly boring. Prebattle preparation and organization is boring. Battles where the two sides repeatedly smash into each other, withdraw, and try again are boring. Operational maneuver, while not boring (to me, at least), is very hard to structure in any game, let alone an RPG like this one.

I was agreeing until you said the part i underlined. Instead of taking the aspects that most would agree can be skipped, you took some of the major parts of medieval warfare and labeled it all as "boring"  its one thing to say you personally dont like it, but its another to conclude it should be omitted from the game only because YOU dont like it. Siege warfare is a great and important part of any medieval based game, how can you have a battle with no pre battle preparations? You expect us to just walk into an area and be swarmed by enemies without any say in how the battle will go? Training would be a great way to see the development of your force, it would be boring to just have an elite force with no effort at all. How are two armies clashing and doing it over again boring? I respect opinions but it just seems like you're either using some strange sarcasm or that medieval fantasys arent for you


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#11
Lady Nuggins

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Man, I was so uninterested in the military aspect of the game until I read this thread.  You guys have some great ideas!

 

Having a personal connection to your army, perhaps through individual generals, is a fantastic idea.  So far, my biggest gripe with how war is handled by DA and ME is that there is this huge disconnect between you, the decisions you make, and the war itself.  You recruit an army in Origins, but you don't really see your troops until you "summon" them from the ether in the final battle.  You make all these important decisions about how to focus your resources or where to send troops in Awakenings, but those decisions are ultimately pointless to the plot.  You find all these "war assets" in ME, but all that does is make an arbitrary "war readiness" gauge increase.  

 

I would love it if I could see my troops training.  If I could interact with them directly, maybe train with them, maybe have specific quests involving some of them.  Make the Inquisitor somebody who walks among the ranks.


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#12
Giant ambush beetle

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I hope we get to use large scale tactics with our troops.  Pincer movements, building bridgeheads, blitzkrieg movements, sieges, a reactive system. Sending a small unit deep into the enemy controlled region should result in them being either decimated or besieged, needing immediate rescue. I want to be able to sacrifice small units in order to distract the enemy and make him move into a trap. I want to be rewarded with success when using clever real world tactics and I want the game to punish me with high losses and low troop morale when making tactically questionable decisions. 

Stuff like that, you know, large scale tactics. 

 

I want it to feel like an actual civil war and I want to feel like I have full control over the troops I command. 


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#13
DrBlingzle

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I hope we get to use large scale tactics with our troops. Pincer movements, building bridgeheads, blitzkrieg movements, sieges, a reactive system. Sending a small unit deep into the enemy controlled region should result in them being either decimated or besieged, needing immediate rescue. I want to be able to sacrifice small units in order to distract the enemy and make him move into a trap. I want to be rewarded with success when using clever real world tactics and I want the game to punish me when making tactically questionable foolish decisions.
Stuff like that, you know, large scale tactics.

I'd love that to but I doubt we'll be able to do advanced tactics like that. People are going to buy DAI because its an RPG and many would complain if it had too many RTS style elements. I'd imagine we'd be able to do very basic battlefied tactics and some simple resource management but nothing on the scale of total war stratagy.

Which is a shame because personnaly a mix between total war and DA would just be...(passes out from awesomness).

#14
Giant ambush beetle

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Yeah I know, something like that is not going to happen, but if there was a way to make it optional-y (Let an experienced general of your army do the tactical thinking for you if you're not interested in that kind of thing)  and at least a little more complex than what I suspect we're going to get I'd instantly be 125% happier with the game. 

I mean, doesn't the combination of hard tactical warfare and fantasy role playing sound cool?  ^_^


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#15
Iron Fist

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I want to see deliberation among soldiers, them considering different strategies and deferring to the Inquisitor for the final decision.



#16
Master Warder Z_

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The ability to get you're troops hooked on Opium and be the only source of said Narcotic to keep them loyal :P

 

You know like the British.



#17
DrBlingzle

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I'd quite like it if our soldiers could react to our choices. For instance if we send a unit to its death and we go for a walk around the fort we could overhear a couple of soldiers complaining about you and expressing a lack of respect. Alternativly if we save the unit we could hear the soldiers speaking in praise of you instead.
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#18
Naesaki

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I'd like my Soldiers to follow my Moral Compass when possible but also actually tell me if i'm being way to harsh or lenient, rather than them just being "Yes Men", may sound weird but I want some individuality in my soldiers! :P


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#19
DrBlingzle

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The ability to get you're troops hooked on Opium and be the only source of said Narcotic to keep them loyal :P

You know like the British.

We sure know how to build an empire :D
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#20
Master Warder Z_

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We sure know how to build an empire :D

 

We do it better <_<

 

But yeah they do.


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#21
Lady Nuggins

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The ability to get you're troops hooked on Opium and be the only source of said Narcotic to keep them loyal :P

 

You know like the British.

 

So, first thing we need to do is take over the distribution of lyrium.  Hmmmmmm...



#22
Aimi

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I was agreeing until you said the part i underlined. Instead of taking the aspects that most would agree can be skipped, you took some of the major parts of medieval warfare and labeled it all as "boring"  its one thing to say you personally dont like it, but its another to conclude it should be omitted from the game only because YOU dont like it. Siege warfare is a great and important part of any medieval based game, how can you have a battle with no pre battle preparations? You expect us to just walk into an area and be swarmed by enemies without any say in how the battle will go? Training would be a great way to see the development of your force, it would be boring to just have an elite force with no effort at all. How are two armies clashing and doing it over again boring? I respect opinions but it just seems like you're either using some strange sarcasm or that medieval fantasys arent for you

 

Okay, then, you figure out a way to model days and weeks of blockading, mining, and countermining in a way that would be fun in a game. Oh, and add the serious problem of sustaining a besieging army's supplies. Sieges are slow and stupid. What people want are the assaults on fortifications. There's the enemy's flag on top of those ramparts, and here's our army in the lines of countervallation around the ramparts - and now, our flag is on top of those ramparts. Or the pressure of defending against an assault on your own walls. Or breaking a siege by relief. Those are all set-piece engagements. Subsuming them under the general rubric of 'siege' is inaccurate and misleading. You assault a keep so you can end a state of siege. Siege is, as generally construed, 'bad'; it is the end of mobile operations, it is a drain on resources without clear opportunity for advancing one's cause directly, and it is only undertaken because alternatives - an assault, a surrender, or whatever - are beyond the capability of your army. You besiege when you are weak, because you cannot afford to lose many men due to taking a place by storm, and because siege means that you will probably not suffer many casualties to the enemy. Fun stuff! Truly deserves to be the centerpiece of a combat video game.

 

'Prebattle preparations' encompasses a great deal more than giving a rousing speech to the troops and maybe figuring out what general leads what forces on what wing of the army. There is the act of moving soldiers to where they need to be. A great deal of organization is required: how many men in each unit, over these roads to these different locations. You require provosts, and marshals, and staffs. Who gets to march where when so that everybody is where they need to be at the appropriate time? Who decides the appropriate time? Where do you encamp? Who goes where in the camp? How do you organize latrines, command and control, food preparation, camp-follower accommodations, march and post security? How about camouflage - how does one prevent enemies from figuring out where your troops are going, and possibly redirect them from doing that? They are all important to the act of making war. They are also almost entirely inappropriate for handling in a game.

 

When I say armies smashing into each other over and over again, I mean exactly that. A set-piece battle might start with two armies rushing at each other and engaging in a melee. Men, however, get tired.This melee does not, typically, last very long, or if it does it does not employ all of the soldiers. With a few men dead after a short time, both armies will pull back, reduce the intensity of the fighting, and allow men to rest. Then they will go at it again. This cycle will continue on and on for several hours, maybe even days, in the worst case scenario. It was extraordinarily repetitive, and in most cases extraordinarily indecisive.

 

We are not talking about Medieval: Total War battles where two big masses of men smash into each other, fighting drags on continuously for maybe several minutes, and then one side breaks and runs away and gets slaughtered by the other side's cavalry. Faster-paced battles happened, sure. They were also quite rare. Take a look at the Battle of Agincourt, for example. It wasn't a case of "the French charge at the English longbows, are wiped out, and retreat". It was "the French forces make probing advances, mount several individual charges at various points in the engagement, and eventually the French army slowly disintegrates and retreats". It took over three hours for fighting to die down after the end of 'skirmishing'. They had to stop and take a lot of breaks.

 

The way characters fight in video games is ridiculous. Hawke or the Warden might do the equivalent of running a marathon and winning an entire martial-arts tournament in a single unremarkable day. This would require superhuman endurance and superhuman strength. No one can actually do that. Real combat is and was structured around the constraints of the human body and constraints of organization and management. Simulating those things in a video game makes for really boring video games. Kind of like how, if you stab somebody in the guts with a sword, that somebody is probably dead, and almost certainly incapacitated, yet Dragon Age combat has both players and enemies sustaining wounds - in many cases, fairly ridiculous amounts of wounds - to drag out combat and add 'tactics' and 'difficulty'. (In that sense, combat in video games is both 'too fast' and 'too slow'. This is not a bad thing.)

 

When I described these things with derision as being 'boring', I also made sure to point out that I did not believe that they would not be recognized in any way, shape, or form. That was kind of the point of my post. BioWare will almost certainly allow players to make individual decisions that seem to impact the things that I mentioned. In the gameplay demo, for example, they showed the relief of a besieged fortification, and demonstrated that one had a choice as to where to dispatch the troops: to defend the village, the fort, or their own wounded. In DA:O, there were mechanics that allowed the player to upgrade their armies before the Battle of Denerim by donating cash and various items, which is basically training. In other BioWare games, players have had the option to determine unit leadership (e.g. Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission) and other assignments for critical tasks.

 

Like combat, this is not realistic military leadership. It is a simulation. It is the shadow of the real thing. You don't hash out march routes, camp setup, training schedules, or food supplies in their entirety. You don't spend time in map study (which is itself anachronistic for medieval warfare, but let that go), consider spatial aspects of warfare, or engage in Clausewitzian geometry. But a simulation is exactly what it's supposed to be, and that's a good thing.


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#23
DrBlingzle

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The ability to get you're troops hooked on Opium and be the only source of said Narcotic to keep them loyal :P.

Actually now that I think about it, the chantry tried doing this with lyrium on the templars and that worked out grea-oh wait.

#24
Master Warder Z_

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So, first thing we need to do is take over the distribution of lyrium.  Hmmmmmm...

 

I was thinking something like Fisstech personally.

 

Entirely natural and fairly common ingredients.



#25
CybAnt1

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I personally have this feeling that we won't actually be "using" (as opposed to "building") the Inquisition Army until The Final Boss Battle ™, or maybe I should say, the Penultimate Battle, where it's probably our large-scale force taking on (and presumably defeating) his large-scale force, so we can have a typical 4 (or 9) companion/party battle vs. him and a bunch of his personal minions/guards to actually end the game. 

 

We totally have no idea how this works. I would love if they are adding large-scale ("strategy-game-like") battles to the DA franchise, but I'm not sure what we've read so far about the Inquisition Army means we will have one such battle, let alone many. 

 

I don't know how we'll be taking keeps, if that will involve any kind of warfare, siege or otherwise.

 

But yeah, this is a game detail/feature I am awaiting with great interest, because it is (probably) taking the DA franchise in a new direction.