50 réponses à ce sujet

[henesua]

I think people are fine with the way you propose to organize the next challenge, and are waiting you to take the lead. Three people seem to have expressed interest in participating if this happens which seems enough to me.

 

As far as posting modules for the challenge goes, I think allowing people to post their module to their own vault page for review and uploading changes as they get comments, is a good way to go. Maintaining links to the challenge entries somewhere, like in the ABC thread can work. What I was doing when this started was to post all of the entries as they were received to an ABC challenge vault page. I think there were pluses to doing it that way, but if the goal is to go with a longer development period and then a review period where the module gets polished it would be better to allow people to post to their own vault page. Otherwise updating the module becomes difficult.

[simuseb]

 

Not detecting a lot of interest here. If people do not care only about how this is organized that is one thing, but it would be nice to know that there is a sufficient number of likely participants for this to be worth it before moving forward.

 

 

How many people are you expecting? It's a twelve year old game  Since this thread has become a base to discuss the ABC, should I rename the title? 

[meaglyn]

I enjoyed the first one. I got a lot out of it and it remains the only actual module I've released. It was fun to have other people play it and the feedback was useful. That said, it took _way_ too much time.  If it is a 3+ month thing then I might do it again.

 

I like the idea of a real theme.

 

Not sure I can get behind the weekend buildathon idea, for one I don't have time for marathon sessions (I get to spend maybe an hour or two a day on this) and two I'm not sure I'd want to spend time playing anything someone cooked up over a weekend. My playing time is even more limited these days than building. But don't let my non-participation stop you

 

Anyway, not much to add, just wanted to say I'm here and paying attention (if not commiting)...

[rogueknight333]

This cycle's themes have been determined. I generated two lists, one based on technical concepts like the level or type of PC, and the other based on more story oriented ideas. Most of these latter were derived from the unused ideas from the original challenge (found here, but I addded in several more derived from Magical Master's list earlier in this thread (#16-18), and several more I thought up myself (#19-21).

 

1st List ("technical") - note levels should be considered approximate (e.g., if one got "Level 10 PC", one could make a module for Level 10, or Lvl. 9, or 11, or a scaleable module for Lvls. 8-12, etc.):

 

 Make a module for a...

 

1) Warrior PC (meaning primarily the classes with full BAB progression, fighters, barbarians, weapon masters, Dwarven Defenders, etc.).

2) Level 5 PC

3) Healer PC (primarily Cleric or Druid, but Bard or Paladin might work too)

4) Level 10 PC

5) Arcane Caster PC

6) Level 15 PC

7) Thief PC (one requiring stealth or other roguish skills, probably but not necessarily an actual rogue)

8) Level 20 PC

9) Druid or Ranger PC, or at least a wilderness themed adventure suitable for such classes

10) Level 25 PC

11) Shapechanger (probably a Shifter, but a caster with access to polymorph spells might work too)

12) Level 30 PC

13) Assassin (meaning a PC whose primary occupation is terminating high-value targets, not necessarily limited only to PCs who are Assassins in the sense of having taken levels in that class)

14) Level 35 PC

15) Bounty Hunter (I already did this, but I hardly exhausted the possibilities for this type of character)

16) Level 40 PC

17) PC who is a member of an order or organization with a distinctive code or ideology (I thought this up with monks or paladins in mind, but other class possibilities exist)

 

...or make a module with

 

18) no haks or other CC

19) only one hak

20) a Time Limit - must complete the adventure before time runs out.

 

2nd List ("story"):

 

1) Weather or Not - Weather plays a pivotal role in the adventure

2) Disastrously Yours - Similar to the above, a disaster, natural or otherwise, plays a pivotal role in the adventure

3) A2B - A simple journey from point A to point B. What could go wrong? A lot, actually.

4) Trading Places - an adventure set in some alternate mirror universe, for example one where evil has triumphed and lives in the over-dark while the remnants of good huddle in the under-light.

5) Stop Frodo - Either the PC or an NPC has been charged with taking some artifact to the one place where it can be destroyed. Unfortuantely this quest was assigned by someone who was actually an agent of Evil, and this artifact is actually necessary to prevent said Evil from triumphing. The bearer of the artifact must somehow be stopped without being killed.

6) A Plague on You - The PC is tasked with the seemingly simple task of eliminating a plague of vermin, but in the process stumbles on a much greater plot.

7) Meddling Kids - The PC comes across a town where all sorts of strange things are happening, and a group of teenagers and a talking dog are the only people with a clue as to the cause (more generally, a Scooby Doo inspired adventure, even if one that does not correspond to it that exactly).

8) Time Travel - Time travel is involved in the adventure in some way

9) Shakespearean - an adventure based on a Shakespeare play in some way

10) Inheritance - the PC has just inherited something that leads to adventure: could be an item, a tract of land, a title, a family curse, etc.

11) Save the Princess - A rescue mission. From Tristram to Dudley Doright, heroes for centuries have been tasked with getting the girl. (Note: if desired, object of rescue can be someone other than a literal princess, e.g. a prince).

12) Storm the Castle - Some villain's citadel needs to be assaulted

13) Fairy Godmother - the PC is assigned a dangerous but heroic task by an NPC who also provides some magical aid in its accomplishment.

14) Escape - the PC finds himself held captive, and perhaps stripped of his gear, by hostile forces, and must somehow escape.

15) Everybody Out - everyone's minions/henchmen/whatever have gone on strike, and it is not clear why. The local adventurers' guild/thieves' guild/whatever is offering a reward to whoever can resolve the matter.

16) Amnesia - the PC begins the adventure not knowing who he is or how he ended up in the circumstances in which he finds himself. Naturally answers to these questions, and the question of how he came to forget them, must be found.

17) Siege - an adventure set in a city under siege (or maybe in the besieger's camp).

18) Mysterious Artifact - An artifact has been discovered, and its purpose or some secret concerning it must be sought out.

19) Double Agent - the PC is tasked with infiltrating some nefarious group so as to undermine it from within. This could, but need not, involve a Shifter who can assume the form of kobolds, drow, dragons, or other monsters.

20) CCC Tie in - Pick one of the themes used for the monthly Custom Content Challenge, and make a module based on the same theme.

21) Blast from the Past - Pick a theme chosen for a previous cycle of the Adventure Building Challenge to be used again. For this cycle that would mean picking one of these themes from the March 2013 ABC:

 

     A) Treasure Map - the PC has come into possession of a map said to lead to treasure...

       Into the Abyss - the PC finds himself on a journey through fiend-infested planes.

     C) The Real Anti-Hero - the PC takes on the role of the goblins PCs routinely slaughter (or something along this general theme where the PC is the champion of the "Bad guys").

 

...or one of these from the April 2013 ABC:

 

     D) Pieces of Eight/All at Sea - a watery adventure set amidst an archipelago of small islands, possibly but not necessarily involving pirates.

     E) Perilous Lodgings - the PC takes refuge in an inn, house, etc. that proves to be much less safe than anticipated.

     F) Summoned - Inspired by the Summon Spell. Instead of a dire animal, elemental or planar beastie, some powerful magic wielder ends ups summoning the PC, intentionally or otherwise, to aid him.

 

The plan is to pick two themes from each list, which participants can mix and match as desired. For this cycle, I determined that #21 from List 2 ("Blast from the Past"), would automatically be included, so that anyone who was thinking about doing something based on one of those themes in the original ABC, but did not get a chance to complete it, would be given a second chance to do so. The other 3 themes I determined randomly with 3 d20 rolls (so those results were as much a surprise to me as they are to you). That gave us:

 

1) Module for a Warrior PC and 

19) Module using only one hak

 

from the first list and

 

6) A Plague on You

 

from the second list. (Plus Blast from the Past which gives a choice of 6 possible themes). Participants are expected to employ one of the four themes and are encouraged to combine as many as possible (e.g, make a module for Warriors, or a module based on the "Plague" theme, or a module for Warriors, based on the "Plague" theme, that uses only one hak, etc.).

 

No doubt both the lists and method of selection from them could use considerable refinement, but this should be good enough to get things started.

 

As for allowable CC, I intend to keep things simple by just using the original sponsors, with the addition that one is permitted to use a hak from any Custom Content Challenge Cycle, not just those listed on that page. As I said earlier, it might be good at some point to look into generating a more up-to-date list of sponsors, but I am not sure we can both do that and get this off the ground in a timely manner.

 

I think I will have participants make their own module entries, rather than there being a single consolidated one as the only opinions expressed one way or the other favored that. I still think there are some advantages to the "single entry" method, so perhaps that could be reconsidered for future challenges.

 

More info about this ABC cycle coming soon. Stay tuned.

[MagicalMaster]

For clarification's sake, presumably "Only one hak" means "One or zero haks?"  I mention this as encouraging people to slap in a random hak simply to meet that requirement would seem a bit silly -- it would be meant as an upper bound, I think?

[henesua]

I like it, and I agree with Magical Master. Just make it a 1 HAK limit - unless you meant to require people to use a particular HAK.

[rogueknight333]

I shall interpret it as meaning "no more than one hak" (i.e, none is also permissible). It might be interesting at some point to set up a challenge requiring use of a single specific hak (in that case, of course, fulfillment of the requirement would mean actually making use of the hak's contents is some meaningful way, not just attaching it), but we will not do so this time.

 

In other news, the official announcement of the Spring 2014 ABC cycle is up. Those interested in participating are encouraged to let us know what they plan to make.

[MagicalMaster]

Might I suggest we limit the early submission bonus to something like 7 days?  Getting it in a bit early is great and encourages people not to build until the last second.  Having it incentivized to get it in a month early encourages people to make a smaller module to try to score more "points."

 

Also, in this case, 20 extra points would be the maximum for additional themes, right?  Warrior class, one or less haks, and either Plague or Blast from Past.

[CaveGnome]

Welcome to the ABC helm rogueknight333 !

 

Just skimming the new ABC posts (will look them in more detail later) my eyes catched a glimpse of the proposed point system. A good idea, but perhaps it could be made more friendly. Makers do modules for fun and give their time and skills free to the community, and sanctions with negative points are not cool, even for late botched work. My old master says "Be friendly to newbees and oldbees". As everybody knows these insects make delicious honey and build incredible wax structures, err... modules and young builder must learn. I suggest we only give positive points for goals reached, no negativity and perhaps use something simpler. Example: in place of substracting 10 points for a day late, 20 for 2 days, etc. add only a +10 point bonus for a module delivered right on time, add +10 for a module who respects the CC size limitations (no need to count excess megabytes), etc. etc. We could also have a symbolic prizes or medals system (like the old Vault) and make some graphic badges for it. my 2cents...

 

CG

[rogueknight333]

Might I suggest we limit the early submission bonus to something like 7 days?  Getting it in a bit early is great and encourages people not to build until the last second.  Having it incentivized to get it in a month early encourages people to make a smaller module to try to score more "points."

 

I am not certain this is really a problem if it happens, given that in the past we had more of an issue with people taking on overambitious projects that could not be properly completed in a month, rather than the reverse. I suppose I could consider front-loading the early release award a bit more, by for example giving a big bonus for being early at all, and giving decreasing rewards for each day before the deadline, so as to create a diminishing returns effect. Note that the early bonus is also dependent on releasing a reasonably polished product, i.e., it is for a rush job that does not look too much like a rush job. If someone is actually able to produce such a thing I do not see why they should not.

 

Also, in this case, 20 extra points would be the maximum for additional themes, right?  Warrior class, one or less haks, and either Plague or Blast from Past.

 

Actually no. As currently set up, the maximum would be 30 points, for a Warrior class mod, with no more than one hak, whose storyline somehow combines elements from the "plague" theme and from one or more of the "Blast from the past" themes.

 

...the proposed point system...could be made more friendly. Makers do modules for fun and give their time and skills free to the community, and sanctions with negative points are not cool, even for late botched work..

 

 

My thinking was that subtracting a few points was a lot more friendly than, for example, just disqualifying a submission altogether. I suppose if people think it a good idea I could revise the system to make it less harsh, by, for example, giving a smaller initial reward for a module submission and substantial bonuses for each rule observed, rather than penalties for rules violated.

 

For now, I have simply edited the announcement with a warning that the point system should be considered provisional, but I will look into producing a revised system based on these suggestions, and any others people care to make.

 

...We could also have a symbolic prizes or medals system (like the old Vault) and make some graphic badges for it...

 

Certainly something to think about. One thing we might set up at some point is a "Best of the ABC" contest (or something like that) for people to vote on. I am inclined to think that should wait until we have a larger pool of candidates than is currently available, however.

[MagicalMaster]

I am not certain this is really a problem if it happens, given that in the past we had more of an issue with people taking on overambitious projects that could not be properly completed in a month, rather than the reverse. I suppose I could consider front-loading the early release award a bit more, by for example giving a big bonus for being early at all, and giving decreasing rewards for each day before the deadline, so as to create a diminishing returns effect. Note that the early bonus is also dependent on releasing a reasonably polished product, i.e., it is for a rush job that does not look too much like a rush job. If someone is actually able to produce such a thing I do not see why they should not.

 

My point is that if we're giving two months to complete the module (theoretically one to build, one to polish) then we shouldn't be encourage people to have it built AND polished at the end of the first month.  We are effectively giving a penalty of -2 points per day after the first month -- which is NOT the intent, right?  I don't think people should feel penalized for using the two-month cycle as intended.

 

Actually no. As currently set up, the maximum would be 30 points, for a Warrior class mod, with no more than one hak, whose storyline somehow combines elements from the "plague" theme and from one or more of the "Blast from the past" themes.

 

Are we sure we want to allow overlap on the storyline themes?  Imagine if we had gotten All at Sea/Into the Abyss.  Sure, you could come up with some really twisted excuse maybe but the whole idea of "Go to the Abyss" and "Go to watery islands" have very little overlap.  If someone really wants to try to include both, more power to them, but I don't think we should be actively encouraging it.  I would suggest we only count one of the storyline themes, point-wise.

[rogueknight333]

My point is that if we're giving two months to complete the module (theoretically one to build, one to polish) then we shouldn't be encourage people to have it built AND polished at the end of the first month... I don't think people should feel penalized for using the two-month cycle as intended.

 

I suspect most people who try to have a module built and polished in just one month will fail, and end up using the second month exactly as intended: fixing up and putting the finishing touches on a project that already exists in a "rough draft" form. Alternatively, if it turns out a lot of people actually can produce a high-quality project in just a single month it would be good to know that: helpful for planning the times to allow in future cycles. In an earlier post you yourself indicated you might prefer a one-month challenge. This way you, and anyone else who feels the same, has a reason to actually treat the limit as a single month, if desired.

 

Are we sure we want to allow overlap on the storyline themes?  Imagine if we had gotten All at Sea/Into the Abyss.  Sure, you could come up with some really twisted excuse maybe but the whole idea of "Go to the Abyss" and "Go to watery islands" have very little overlap.  If someone really wants to try to include both, more power to them, but I don't think we should be actively encouraging it...

 

Yes, I could see this creating an incentive to design some really weird, convoluted plot in an attempt to combine themes that really do not belong together. An occasional module like that might be fun, but I am not sure I would want a steady diet of them.

 

Anyway, here's a suggested revision of the point system, that emphasizes rewards for getting things right more than penalties for getting them wrong, and provides less extreme incentives for early submissions and theme combinations:

 

+25 for submitting a module

+10 for using at least one theme

+20 for using at least one theme from each list

+5 additional bonus for using any additional theme(s)

+20 for respecting the custom content restrictions

+20 for not being late

+15 for being early

+1 per day additional bonus for being early

+15 for a submission with no game-breaking bugs (possibly we could have additional bonuses for a generally well-polished module, although that might involve us in making some more subjective and potentially controversial judgments).

-1 per day for being late

-1 per MB for exceeding CC restrictions

-5 for a submission that is seriously buggy

 

Thoughts?

[simuseb]

 

I suspect most people who try to have a module built and polished in just one month will fail, and end up using the second month exactly as intended: fixing up and putting the finishing touches on a project that already exists in a "rough draft" form. Alternatively, if it turns out a lot of people actually can produce a high-quality project in just a single month it would be good to know that: helpful for planning the times to allow in future cycles. In an earlier post you yourself indicated you might prefer a one-month challenge. This way you, and anyone else who feels the same, has a reason to actually treat the limit as a single month, if desired.

 

 

Yes, I could see this creating an incentive to design some really weird, convoluted plot in an attempt to combine themes that really do not belong together. An occasional module like that might be fun, but I am not sure I would want a steady diet of them.

 

Anyway, here's a suggested revision of the point system, that emphasizes rewards for getting things right more than penalties for getting them wrong, and provides less extreme incentives for early submissions and theme combinations:

 

+25 for submitting a module

+10 for using at least one theme

+20 for using at least one theme from each list

+5 additional bonus for using any additional theme(s)

+20 for respecting the custom content restrictions

+20 for not being late

+15 for being early

+1 per day additional bonus for being early

+15 for a submission with no game-breaking bugs (possibly we could have additional bonuses for a generally well-polished module, although that might involve us in making some more subjective and potentially controversial judgments).

-1 per day for being late

-1 per MB for exceeding CC restrictions

-5 for a submission that is seriously buggy

 

Thoughts?

 

 

That is still encouraging people to use as many themes as possible. I mean, if i used one theme from each list, that would be 35 points right off the bat, right? Then I include the other 6 themes in the list, that would essentially give me 30 more points. That's almost double it! 

[henesua]

I think the points are an interesting idea, and I'll be watching to see how that plays out.

However the main thing for me in judging a module is how much I enjoy it.

[MagicalMaster]

That is still encouraging people to use as many themes as possible. I mean, if i used one theme from each list, that would be 35 points right off the bat, right? Then I include the other 6 themes in the list, that would essentially give me 30 more points. That's almost double it! 

 

There's a maximum of four themes.  However, it still encourages combining "Into the Abyss" with "Island Adventures."  Rogueknight, I'd suggest just giving a +10 bonus for each technical theme and a +10 bonus for using EITHER story theme -- so maximum of 30 points.  I'd also suggest we up the base submission reward from 25 to 100.  Yes, there's technically no difference between scoring 30 when someone else scores 60 compared to scoring 120 when someone else scores 150 but it feels better from the lower score's point of view.

 

I suspect most people who try to have a module built and polished in just one month will fail, and end up using the second month exactly as intended: fixing up and putting the finishing touches on a project that already exists in a "rough draft" form. Alternatively, if it turns out a lot of people actually can produce a high-quality project in just a single month it would be good to know that: helpful for planning the times to allow in future cycles. In an earlier post you yourself indicated you might prefer a one-month challenge. This way you, and anyone else who feels the same, has a reason to actually treat the limit as a single month, if desired.

+1 per day additional bonus for being early

-5 for a submission that is seriously buggy

 

If that's your suspicion, then why would we want to encourage people to try exactly that?

 

On top of that, with that scoring system, you're better off submitting a week early with serious bugs -- you'll still wind up 2 points ahead.

 

I realize that the points don't ultimately matter -- but I also don't think we should structure them in a way that encourages behavior that we don't want to actually happen, if that makes sense.  For the first (renewed) ABC, at least, why don't we do something simpler?

 

+10 points for being at least a week early

-10 points for being seriously buggy

-1 point per day late

 

Put that all together and we would get...

 

+100 for submitting a module

+10 for each technical theme

+10 for using at least one storyline theme

+20 for respecting the custom content restrictions

+20 for not being late

+10 for being at least a week early

-1 per day for being late

-1 per MB for exceeding CC restrictions

-10 for a submission that is seriously buggy

+15 for a submission with no game-breaking bugs (possibly we could have additional bonuses for a generally well-polished module, although that might involve us in making some more subjective and potentially controversial judgments).

 

Does any of that raise concerns for you?  You're still encouraged to finish early but it's a smaller deal and you're still given theoretically three weeks to polish (as opposed to four).

[rogueknight333]

I think the points are an interesting idea, and I'll be watching to see how that plays out.

However the main thing for me in judging a module is how much I enjoy it.

 

The idea was to to provide something like your distinction between "Completion Prizes" and "Honorable Mentions" that had more gradations and thus more flexibility. Hopefully the main concern for participants as well will also be making an enjoyable module, and they will not be overly concerned about precisely how many points they are getting.

 

On the chance someone does end up taking the system with more seriousness than it perhaps deserves, let us see if we can come up with something most people will find reasonable...

 

 

There's a maximum of four themes.  However, it still encourages combining "Into the Abyss" with "Island Adventures"...  

 

I realize it was not clear from the way I wrote it, but I intended that to be +5 (max) for any number of additional themes used beyond the one from each list that is recommended as the norm, not +5 per additional theme. Thus it would be fairly trivial and not much of an incentive. I also do not see a problem with (slightly) encouraging the occasional weird, convoluted plot, if someone wants to give something like that a shot (and of course in a given cycle it is also possible that one would end up with two story themes that actually did mesh quite well).

 

... I'd also suggest we up the base submission reward from 25 to 100.  Yes, there's technically no difference between scoring 30 when someone else scores 60 compared to scoring 120 when someone else scores 150 but it feels better from the lower score's point of view.

 

A good idea, I think.

 

If that's your suspicion, then why would we want to encourage people to try exactly that?

 

On top of that, with that scoring system, you're better off submitting a week early with serious bugs -- you'll still wind up 2 points ahead.

 

 

 The idea is to encourage people to plan projects they think can be completed in less than the maximum allowed time, so they will have a margin for error if it ends up being "behind schedule and over budget," as so many projects do. And though I did not explicitly mention it on my latest list, I was assuming that the cancellation of points for being early if the early module has serious bugs would still apply. If you plan for a one-month project, you can either 1) succeed and finish early (not much of a problem so far as I can see) or 2) fall behind schedule (also not a problem, you still have another month to catch up) - two acceptable outcomes. Whereas if you plan a two-month project, only one of those possible outcomes ends well.

 

Anyway, here is the 2nd suggested revised list (theme & earliness related bonuses are relatively even smaller, given the larger total # of points, and thus a still less significant incentive):

 

+100 for submitting a module

+15 for using at least one story theme

+15 for using at least one technical theme

+5 (max, not per) for using 3 or more themes

+20 for submitting on time

+20 for respecting CC restrictions

+20 for a submission without game-breaking bugs

+10 for submitting early

+1 per day before deadline for an early submission

-(15+early bonus, if any) for seriously buggy submission

-1 per day for being late

-1 per MB for exceeding CC restrictions

[MagicalMaster]

I realize it was not clear from the way I wrote it, but I intended that to be +5 (max) for any number of additional themes used beyond the one from each list that is recommended as the norm, not +5 per additional theme

 

So just to make sure we're all on the same page, what is the maximum theme score in this scenario?  Looks like 35.

 

The idea is to encourage people to plan projects they think can be completed in less than the maximum allowed time, so they will have a margin for error if it ends up being "behind schedule and over budget," as so many projects do.

 

I get that.  But right now you're imposing a PENALTY for not finishing in a month and on a per day basis.  You could rephrase it as

 

+10 points for getting it in within a month of the one month deadline passing

-1 per day over the one month deadline

- (15 + days before beginning of second month) points for a seriously buggy submission

 

Do you see what I'm saying?  It effectively makes the deadline one month rather than two and anything past one month is penalized point wise -- because you start losing possible points past that part.  And because each day after the one month part costs an extra point, my fear is that builders will feel obliged to submit it as soon as possible (even if there's some bugs remaining and three weeks prior to the "official" deadline) because they're losing points.

 

What precisely about docking a point per day after one month appeals to you?  It just seems that's going to stress people and make them feel rushed because every day costs another point.

 

On the flip side, something less gradient like "10 points for getting it in at least a week early" (or two weeks early or whatever) still offers an incentive to accomplish your stated goal but if you fall short of that deadline you don't feel a pressure to get it in as soon as possible after that -- you have another one or two weeks to finish.  It's not a constant pressure.

 

Again, I'm not questioning your goal, I'm worried that the given method is going to lead to extra stress and perverse incentives.

[rogueknight333]

So just to make sure we're all on the same page, what is the maximum theme score in this scenario?  Looks like 35.

 

 Correct, 35 would be the maximum.

 

But right now you're imposing a PENALTY for not finishing in a month and on a per day basis...It effectively makes the deadline one month rather than two and anything past one month is penalized point wise -- because you start losing possible points past that part...

 

What precisely about docking a point per day after one month appeals to you?

 

I thought I had already explained what I saw as the advantages of doing something like this: it gives people an incentive to plan to use less time than the maximum, so they have a margin for error if it ends up requiring more time than anticipated (as is likely). Secondarily, anyone who does not need the full time, and does not really want to devote two whole months has more reason to employ an effective time limit more appropriate for them. I do see what you are saying about it being an effective penalty for using the full time, and that not being what we want (I was assuming no one would care about this so much as to obsess over every lost point, but perhaps someone will). Not convinced it makes a big difference one way or the other, but perhaps we could set up a scheme like the following (exact numbers subject to tweaking):

 

+100 for submitting a module

+10 for using at least one theme

+15 for using at least one theme from each list

+5 (max, not per) for using 3 or more themes (so 30 max for theme related bonuses)

+25 for submitting on time

+25 for respecting CC restrictions

+25 for a submission free of game-breaking bugs

+10+(1 per day before deadline up to a maximum of 10) for an early submission (so a maximum of 20 for early submission)

-(15+early bonus, if any) for a seriously buggy submission

-1 per day for being late

-1 per MB for exceeding CC restrictions

[MagicalMaster]

I thought I had already explained what I saw as the advantages of doing something like this: it gives people an incentive to plan to use less time than the maximum, so they have a margin for error if it ends up requiring more time than anticipated (as is likely).

 

Sorry, I should have been clearer.  Why day by day penalties compared to thresholds (like weekly)?  Seems weekly is easier on people since if you miss it you don't feel pressured to get it in the next day, you have another week -- but you're still encouraged to try to do it in the first place.

 

Regardless, maximum of 10 days helps significantly in my opinion.  I could quibble over some other things but they're not really important and I'm trying to avoid that.

[rogueknight333]

Sorry, I should have been clearer.  Why day by day penalties compared to thresholds (like weekly)?  Seems weekly is easier on people since if you miss it you don't feel pressured to get it in the next day, you have another week -- but you're still encouraged to try to do it in the first place.

 

The advantage would be that it makes any degree of earliness meaningful, but I am actually not deeply committed to doing it that way. If it appeared I was stubbornly devoted to it, that was probably because I had got the impression (replying somewhat in haste) that the objections to my earlier points list were based on misunderstandings of it (like ignoring the cancellation of early points for a buggy submission) and thus it did not seem like significant changes were called for.

 

If no one raises any significant objections to the latest list of point rewards, I think I will go with it (perhaps with slight tweaks), and edit the official announcement post to incorporate it in a couple days or so.

[MagicalMaster]

I strongly feel that thresholds is a better way to handle stuff like this  -- can go into the details more if you want but as you say you're not deeply committed it might be superfluous.

 

I think something like 10 points for 3 days early and a further 10 points for 7 days early (so 20 for 7 days) would work well, to use the general range of numbers you've suggested.

[henesua]

Either method I am fine with, but want to stress that a very simple point system is better than a complicated one. Just keep it to a few factors so as not to confuse potential participants. We want them to be focusing on the module itself, not the game of earning points.

[MagicalMaster]

Also what henesua said.

[rogueknight333]

Revised point system has been posted for anyone who wishes to further critique it:

 

POINT SYSTEM:

 

Participants will be awarded points based on how well they complete the challenge while observing the various rules. This allows us to enforce the rules rather loosely (since it is hopefully all in fun) while also not ignoring them completely (since some structure is needed). Points will be kept track of and can accumulate over multiple cycles. Awards and penalties are as follows:

 

+100 points for releasing a module as part of the challenge

+10 points for using one of the proposed themes

+15 points for using at least one theme from each list

+5 points for using 3 or more themes (note this is +5 total for any number of additional themes used, not 5 per theme)

+25 for releasing on time

+25 for respecting CC restrictions

+25 for a submission free of game-breaking bugs

+15 for releasing a submission at least 3 days early

-20 for releasing a submission that is seriously buggy

-1 per day for submitting late

-1 per mebabyte used in excess of the CC limit.

 

The cycle organizer (me) reserves the right to award further bonuses and penalties beyond those listed here as additional reasons for them occur to him, as well as to generally revise the system in response to feedback from the community.

 

In the interest of simplicity there is only a single early reward and no direct cancellation of it for buggyness (the buggyness penalty is simply larger).

 

In reference to other possibly stupid ideas of mine,  we might also want to consider if there is a better way to handle the choosing of themes. What I did for this cycle was obviously very ad hoc. Not an urgent matter, since we do not need to worry about it until a future cycle, but something we probably want to give a bit more thought to at some point.

[Rolo Kipp]

<trolling...>

 

Assuming the Vault is working (and it will be), you can put up polls there. If you don't see the option under "add content" PM me for permissions. I could also create an ABC specific forum, as I rather want to do for the CCC, CPP and any other large community shindigs...

 

<...for polls>