424 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Krytie]

In the past two games, there aren't overly large divergences in the dialogue or way the NPCs react to you based on your gender. (And when I say based on gender, it's usually specifically about a player's femaleness). However, I've noticed that they're predominately negative ones.

 

Like comments on you being a lady warden. Or NPCs making crude comments about you being a lady. I don't actually recall anyone reacting negatively to a male Warden or Hawke for being male.

 

Anyhow, I'd really like if as Inquisitor, I don't encounter any disrespect purely based on the gender of my character. Given the world has a matriarchal religious society and many women in power in various places, it seems odd. And if there must be disrepect to the Inquisitor if she's female, then equalise it and have male Inquisitors face a similar problem in another area.

 

It detracts from the enjoyment of being able to be a kickass woman in a videogame if you encounter disrespect you could avoid by playing as a male.

[CuriousArtemis]

Agree. I think DA:O just shows its age sometimes. I'm not expecting that kind of silliness to appear in DA:I (hopefully). I've got Game of Thrones if I wanna visit a fantasy world where women are second class citizens.

[The Hierophant]

My only issue with a character's or culture's views on gender roles is with consistency. Like how historical Aveline's backstory seems out of place when you consider that Orlais the homeland of the Chantry, worships a female messianic figure who's occasionally depicted as a warrior.

[Gregolian]

People hate those in power...  maybe?

 

Which makes you wonder...  nah, that joke was over the line.

[Nefla]

I just want more gender specific terms. I hated being called "serrah" for both genders in DA2 and I HATE being called "sir" in SWtOR (I don't like being called "my lord" either but it has lore reasons behind it). Ma'am or my lady please :3

[Lord Xendria]

I always gathered that perhaps women fighters and the like are perfectly normal, but there's always gonna be the existence of sleazebags. However, it made more sense for games like Mass Effect, where we were still dealing with Earthlings. We know those types exist here. But then they threw in aliens who also acted that way, who came from different cultures than us, and who in turn.. can still be a slime ball.

 

I -could- say perhaps they consider their religious figures an exception, there's all kinds of excuses and speculations that can be made, but they sorta caused this themselves with the very beginning of the character creation in Origins.

 

They said women and men are equal in the world of Thedas. Which made all the gender reactions pretty opposite of that, and didn't even take into account -all- the cultures of Thedas (women roles in the Qun for example). In Ostagar there were women fighters, and yet a female was still questioned. Or hit on. Perhaps they meant it one way initially, but our own "real-world" views seeped into the writing?

 

Resorting to sexualized talk when a male is behaving ill towards a female is always too easy of an old trope to fall back on. It's one thing if it pops up sometimes, but it pops up alot for female characters.

 

One thing is said, but their history implies otherwise, as does the present tense. I think it's getting better though, and the more it's brought to their attention, I think the better it'll get. And it certainly helps to have more women writers on the team. Because it doesn't make sense in this world setting where so many women hold powerful and respected roles for any one to raise an eyebrow because the player character is female.

 

I heard we'll have different reactions based on race and whether or not we're a mage when it comes time for big events. It'll be interesting to see if that also includes gender, or if we're a female rogue/warrior if we're treated the same during it, or if a male rogue/warrior gets the most glorified reaction. If the latter, there's gonna be an uproar for sure.

[Darth Krytie]

Yeah, it's one of those times when I hear 'but realism' and feel like responding 'but realism sucks'.  It'd be one thing if it was balanced out between genders...like there were some parts of the game where dudes faced the same type of commentary...maybe in the Chantry or something. But, no, it's like...a weird penalty to your psyche for choosing to be a lady in the game.

 

And I'd certainly like to avoid too many 'Gamlen' type interactions. Because some of those were pretty gross, doubly so since you're blood related.

 

I do understand when the lore-demands some sort of different response especially in some of the cultures in Thedas...but I'd like to make the 'oh, you're a female, and that's crap' type of response to a minimum.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

The Gamlen stuff was pretty nasty & creepy, a old guy seemingly getting horny over the thought of his niece sleeping with her pirate girlfriend is very icky to me.

[Potato Cat]

I think it's just more difficult to say something particularly misandristic without sounding like some ridiculous straw feminist.

And in the most cases where I noticed it, it's either to convey sleaziness and or someone who you'd want to stab in face, (and in a lot of cases you can, like Vaughan).

[Nox]

I wish there'll be less differences in dialogue.

 

M!Warden - You're so strong and corregious.

F!Warden - You're so beautiful.

 

One gets praised for their competence, one for her (supposed) good looks.

[Darth Krytie]

I think it's just more difficult to say something particularly misandristic without sounding like some ridiculous straw feminist.

And in the most cases where I noticed it, it's either to convey sleaziness and or someone who you'd want to stab in face, (and in a lot of cases you can, like Vaughan).

 

But, honestly, their jobs are to write and write well. They can surely figure it out. 

 

And, also, if I wanted to have some sleazebag demean me in my off-hours, I'd leave my house and interact with the world.  It's more the principle of it all, yanno? If I play as a dude, I don't generally get people talking about my junk and implying that because I'm a dude, I'm incapable in some way...because you're supposed to be the hero! But when I play as a woman, I'm reminded frequently that, hey, men view you as a sex object and let me be horribly skeevy to you and question your abilities because you're a lady, and are you a hero, really, I don't buy that!

 

So, yeah, that sucks.

[CuriousArtemis]

I just want more gender specific terms. I hated being called "serrah" for both genders in DA2 and I HATE being called "sir" in SWtOR (I don't like being called "my lord" either but it has lore reasons behind it). Ma'am or my lady please :3

 

I actually like this  "Serrah" is a gender neutral term, and I'm all about gender neutral. The only time I object is when masculine terms are used for women, such as how in Star Trek (at least until Janeway came along) female officers were called "Sir." 

[Mes]

Love this thread and that someone has brought it up. 

 

If you're gonna have sexism in the game, have it go both ways or get rid of it entirely. Enough of this BS.

 

Actually I recently sang praises of the Ser Gilmore mod, but one of the first bits of dialogue REALLY bothered me. He talked about how his home was attacked, all the men were enslaved and all the women were "brutally raped." Really? Now this is a completely fan made mod. Did they really need to paint this horrendous picture. Men get raped too, in "real" life. Why in movies, TV, games, music, it ALWAYS has to be women. 

 

Just an example that stuck out for me. I just want to escape into a world where I can be myself and not be a target. 

[Lord Xendria]

Love this thread and that someone has brought it up. 

 

If you're gonna have sexism in the game, have it go both ways or get rid of it entirely. Enough of this BS.

 

Actually I recently sang praises of the Ser Gilmore mod, but one of the first bits of dialogue REALLY bothered me. He talked about how his home was attacked, all the men were enslaved and all the women were "brutally raped." Really? Now this is a completely fan made mod. Did they really need to paint this horrendous picture. Men get raped too, in "real" life. Why in movies, TV, games, music, it ALWAYS has to be women. 

 

Just an example that stuck out for me. I just want to escape into a world where I can be myself and not be a target. 

 

Yeah, I'd find that bothersome as well, what was said in the mod.

 

Granted in those sort of tragic and violent scenarios, my mind tends to picture the worst probably happened anyway, so don't really need it spelled out for me.

 

But if you encounter Howe in the dungeon with a Cousland, he's very detailed about what went down. Mass rape wasn't said. One would figure if it did happen, vile little man he was, he would of mentioned it with as much gleeful venom as he did everything else he said was done. I'm glad they at least didn't go there. Was horrible enough with the City Elf origin.

 

But I believe we'll sorta get our wish, at least with one thing. There was that thing the devs talked about where someone said or did something creepy, the male writers thought it was good creepy, and it woulda went thru if not for the female writers on the team pointing out that it seemed wrong when done to a female character. So they changed it so both genders are going to get creeped out. By whatever it is that whoever said/done.

 

I'm very curious if we'll be able to figure out which scene when it happens. If it's still in there. But, still. It's good that they listened and had that female perspective.

[Lady Nuggins]

I'm going through an Origins replay right now and came across the part during the joining when you can tell your male companions that "I'm braver than all of you, and I'm a woman!"  Ouch.  I would never backhandedly insult my own gender like that (or, for that matter, claim that men aren't masculine enough if they aren't brave).

 

I always feel like any "you're a woman AND a fighter????" dialogue sounds hamfisted and awkward.  I think usually it's a well-intentioned attempt at showing how unique and rebellious a female hero is, but instead it comes off as a challenge for her to constantly prove her worth, which I get enough of in my day-to-day life, thanks.  It makes sense in the context of Sten, because the qun has very specific roles for everybody, not just women, but anyone else in Thedas saying that just makes me groan.   

 

I also liked hearing "sirrah" as a gender-neutral title.  I love gender-neutral titles.

 

I'd personally like the treatment of the MC to be as gender-neutral as possible, but would actually be interesting to see a scenario in which a male character gets snubbed while the female one does not.  Something minor, like a cloistered sister refusing to speak to a male character but being open with a female one.  

[Mes]

I'd personally like the treatment of the MC to be as gender-neutral as possible, but would actually be interesting to see a scenario in which a male character gets snubbed while the female one does not.  Something minor, like a cloistered sister refusing to speak to a male character but being open with a female one.  

 

Or a woman meeting the male Inquisitor and making some sleazy rape-ie comment. To drive the point home that this stuff is ridiculous. We've all had enough.

[daveliam]

I'm going through an Origins replay right now and came across the part during the joining when you can tell your male companions that "I'm braver than all of you, and I'm a woman!"  Ouch.  I would never backhandedly insult my own gender like that (or, for that matter, claim that men aren't masculine enough if they aren't brave).

 

Yeah, even though I don't normally play as a female, I distinctly remember this dialogue option and remember being like, "Well, damn.  That seems like an odd thing for a lady in this situation to say."  It was cringeworthy.

[TurretSyndrome]

In the past two games, there aren't overly large divergences in the dialogue or way the NPCs react to you based on your gender. (And when I say based on gender, it's usually specifically about a player's femaleness). However, I've noticed that they're predominately negative ones.

 

Like comments on you being a lady warden. Or NPCs making crude comments about you being a lady. I don't actually recall anyone reacting negatively to a male Warden or Hawke for being male.

 

Anyhow, I'd really like if as Inquisitor, I don't encounter any disrespect purely based on the gender of my character. Given the world has a matriarchal religious society and many women in power in various places, it seems odd. And if there must be disrepect to the Inquisitor if she's female, then equalise it and have male Inquisitors face a similar problem in another area.

 

It detracts from the enjoyment of being able to be a kickass woman in a videogame if you encounter disrespect you could avoid by playing as a male.

 

Just my thoughts on this, haven't read any other posts, so please keep that in mind. 

 

The reason you find all the disrespect in these games is because it's a medieval setting. There are more idiots around than in the modern world, who believe women belong in the kitchen and men on the field. That's why male Wardens don't see much disrespect based on gender.

 

Women may have power in various places like politics and religious groups, but a woman running around the country killing things(a field quite a few Fereldans think is not for women) will always face sexism every now and then.

 

But I understand your gripe. Whatever disrespect I face in these games, you have to face all that + 1, the gender discrimination. While I get "I will kill you", you get "Me and me boys will rape you and then I will lop off your head". 

 

I won't fight for "realism" here, whether they want that kind of realism is for anyone playing as a female to decide.

[Darth Krytie]

Just my thoughts on this, haven't read any other posts, so please keep that in mind. 

 

The reason you find all the disrespect in these games is because it's a medieval setting. There are more idiots around than in the modern world, who believe women belong in the kitchen and men on the field. That's why male Wardens don't see much disrespect based on gender.

 

Women may have power in various places like politics and religious groups, but a woman running around the country killing things(a field quite a few Fereldans think is not for women) will always face sexism every now and then.

 

But I understand your gripe. Whatever disrespect I face in these games, you have to face all that + 1, the gender discrimination. While I get "I will kill you", you get "Me and me boys will rape you and then I will lop off your head". 

 

I won't fight for "realism" here, whether they want that kind of realism is for anyone playing as a female to decide.

 

I get that the setting is similar to a medieval one. But, if it's already willing to diverge by having Meredith as the lead templar and Aveline as the Captain of the Guard. And a martriachal religious order with Andraste as their iconic figure who is often depicted as a warrior. And if they can have female wardens like Sophia all those years before Origins even started. And women soldiers, which were peppered throughout the game. Some of them even named ones. And women-led mercenary bands. And women-led smuggling rings. And women pirates. All over the place in the Dragon Age world you have women in power, women in battle, women in charge, women giving orders, etc. And yet, when I play as a woman, I get the gender discrimination. It's frustrating because of all those signs that signal to me that I shouldn't have to deal with it. Going by what the world shows me.

[TurretSyndrome]

I get that the setting is similar to a medieval one. But, if it's already willing to diverge by having Meredith as the lead templar and Aveline as the Captain of the Guard. And a martriachal religious order with Andraste as their iconic figure who is often depicted as a warrior. And if they can have female wardens like Sophia all those years before Origins even started. And women soldiers, which were peppered throughout the game. Some of them even named ones. And women-led mercenary bands. And women-led smuggling rings. And women pirates. All over the place in the Dragon Age world you have women in power, women in battle, women in charge, women giving orders, etc. And yet, when I play as a woman, I get the gender discrimination. It's frustrating because of all those signs that signal to me that I shouldn't have to deal with it. Going by what the world shows me.

 

Not combating your stance or anything, but how many are there compared to men in the end, matters, not how many we're shown in the games. Isabela is a pirate captain, but does that serve as proof that there's equal number or more of female pirate captains in Thedas compared to male ones? Meredith is also the same way, It could be that she's just an exception. Let's say Meredith is a Knight Commander among a total of 20. Her being in that position does not mean that there are 10 or more women serving as Knight Commanders, it just means that women can also take up such roles if they work hard enough(or are crazy enough   ). 

 

Ser Cauthrien, Aveline, Sofia, Cassandra etc are women who you can use to say that women are in no way incapable than men but not something you can use as proof to say that they are in equal number with men of their rank and stature. 

 

Whether there are an equal, close or more number of "in-power" and accomplished females to males, the DA universe has yet to reveal that to us. The Chantry is a religious organisation. It's headed by women but the roles taken are as priests and mothers, obviously they won't be discriminated for being in the roles the common man feels they belong to.

 

But again, as I said, I sympathize with your frustration, but let's not bring logic into it, there's much we don't know about DA universe to make such assumptions. 

[Mes]

Hmm. I think trying to bring justification into the question of why women are continuously treated differently in DA is... a bit too dangerous. Medieval times or no. 

 

Edit: Plus, ya know what, people need to be respected equally in any universe. Even if there are less female warriors in Thedas than male, that doesn't translate into sexism being acceptable.

[Banxey]

I'm going to be the odd one out and say that I liked it in Origins. Sure when Howe said to my female Cousland "All grown up and still playing the man." I wanted to smack him in the mouth with a mailed fist, But it didn't put me off the game. I do agree about the dialogue from the Korcari Wilds though.

 

I also enjoyed playing a human male warrior and a female elf mage back to back because of how varied the reactions were. If they also gave similar gendered responses to males as someone suggested I'm sure I'd love that too.

[KaiserShep]

I'm going to be the odd one out and say that I liked it in Origins. Sure when Howe said to my female Cousland "All grown up and still playing the man." I wanted to smack him in the mouth with a mailed fist, But it didn't put me off the game. I do agree about the dialogue from the Korcari Wilds though.

 

Yeah I remember first hearing that line from Howe to my Cousland warrior, and the first thing that went through my mind was "Boy, you're sure making your imminent death all the sweeter, ain'tcha?"

[jncicesp]

 

[Darth Krytie]

 

EXACTLY!!!!!