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[Darth Krytie]

For myself i would love specific gender and class dialogue as i find it more immersive and real so i would support more unique individuals.

 

What kind are you talking about? Any at all? Or do you want a specific type of gender/class related dialogue?

[fchopin]

I would prefer gender and class dialogue to be different for males and females.
I don’t mean in a bad way but i want to be able to tell if the dialogue is for a female or a male.
What they say is not important as long as i can tell the difference.
If it is too difficult to do with current technology then it should be something developers should strive for.

[Mockingword]

For female Inquisitors, all the male NPCs should speak really slow and really loud.

 

"HELLO. I WOULD LIKE YOU TO TRACK AND SLAY A RAMPAGING OGRE. IN RETURN, I WILL GIVE YOU THIS GOLD. SEE? SHINY! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?"

[WildOrchid]

Oh my goodness what a lovely interview!

The comments though.... not so great. But of course it's youtube, all the worst gamers who don't want diversity and difference go there to whine.

I'm hoping the devs won't take these comments too seriously.

[Lady Nuggins]

So can anyone think of positive examples of distinct dialogue for female protags?

 

The only one that is coming to mind for me is, when you first encounter Morrigan in the Wilds, if you're female she asks you specifically about your opinion because all the men in your party are busy accusing her of being a witch, and she assumes you're more level-headed.  

[Darth Krytie]

So can anyone think of positive examples of distinct dialogue for female protags?

 

The only one that is coming to mind for me is, when you first encounter Morrigan in the Wilds, if you're female she asks you specifically about your opinion because all the men in your party are busy accusing her of being a witch, and she assumes you're more level-headed.  

 

Wrong game, but I liked Eve/Bakura with Fem!Shep. They connected.

 

I also liked Leliana complimenting the female Warden's hair. Not because 'all girls love their hair/talking about their hair' but because Leliana does and she's trying to connect with you. It could turn flirtatious or not. And you have the option of responding with 'it's just hair', too.

 

 

 

Tough thing is about gender-specific dialogue is because half the time, it's based on assumptions and even stereotypes.

 

How often would you change what you'd say to a person, based purely on their gender alone?

 

To a dude: "Do you like this sword?"

To a lady: "Do you like this sword?"

 

So, yeah, I'd challenge a writer to think about why they want something gender-specific in any instance (Not talking about some vile baddie spouting drivel and using the low-hanging fruit to insult.) And if that gender-specific dialogue is important to the character/plot or if it's just based on assumptions about the differences in gender. The above example with Leliana does play into a bit about women talk about their hair, but it also allows a person to debunk it, too. It's actually good, too, because it fits Leliana's character to say it in the first place, which is important when creating good gender-specific dialogue/interactions.

[Mes]

^^ Gosh yes I loved that conversation with Lelianna. It was so sweet. 

 

To be honest I'm not sure I really want any real gender dialogue distinction between men and women in games (beyond talking about hair or what have you). One of my absolute favorite TV shows is Xena: Warrior Princess, and one reason I am in love with that show is because of the way the main character is treated in that world. She basically spends her time walking around bandit-filled lands wearing skimpy non-armor, but not once did a group of male bandits pounce on her and threaten her with rape or make some kind of derogatory comments on account of her female-ness. They treated her like they would any other human walking around in their territory - they'd threaten to chop her head off. And that was it.

 

I'd like to see more of that in games. One reason I play male characters at all is because I automatically feel "safe" and "strong" because of these weird little gender differences everywhere. I want to feel "safe" and "strong" as a woman, too (because HEY that's what I am in real life). And I think getting rid of random, pointless sexist remarks and attitudes toward women can help.

[esper]

So can anyone think of positive examples of distinct dialogue for female protags?

 

The only one that is coming to mind for me is, when you first encounter Morrigan in the Wilds, if you're female she asks you specifically about your opinion because all the men in your party are busy accusing her of being a witch, and she assumes you're more level-headed.  

 

I can think of only one game where it didn't bother me and there the protagonist where semi-set and race depended on gender which mean that a lot of the negative gender specific were race specific, and the positive gender specific were almost always relating to the Li's who would try to flirt or had more lines wiht the PC they were avaible to. 

 

Sadly even in Thedas, which is not patheriatical, the gender specifics boils down to a surprised: 'I didn't know women could fight' or outright leering.

 

If we must have visible gender specific conversations (which I don't think we must 9 times out of 10) where is the sexist comments off 'Andraste was betrayed by a man, obviously we can't put men in important roles, they are emotional and gets jealous too easy' or the 'Andraste is a woman, every religious leader of the chantry is a women, men have no business leading'. If my female gets question why she can fight, I want to see the male PC gets question why he can lead... due to Thedas being mostly led by women and again their 'Eve' was a man, who betrayed their profet for a pretty petty reason. Of course I would rather see none of it, Thedas has plenty of discrimination to go around without sexism.

 

And again... the above is what 9 out of 10 gender specific conversations boils down to in crpgs... and even bioware tends to fall into that cliche. (I don't think they do it on purpose, I just think that it is the way we are wired to see fantasy stories and they haven't thought about it).

[Mes]

On the subject, I really hope we can see some better romance dialogue too for all genders/races. 

 

Me too.

 

I mean let's face it - we've got examples of this good-for-nothing, random and unrelated to story sexism... But in the previous two games you could literally prance around wherever you liked as a mage and hardly anyone would bat an eyelid or even notice. 

 

Why should these characters notice your human gender if they can't notice your class, and sometimes even your race.

 

Got a little carried away there but anyway I was trying to say yes, it would be cool for romance dialogue or ANY dialogue to incorporate your race and/or class. 

[Ryzaki]

Let's not forget being a bloodmage with LIs who despise bloodmagic.

"Don't mind me over here slicing my wrists/shoving a sword through my stomach. It's medicinal I swearz"

[Stormy]

Maybe I'm too laissez faire but the only thing that really bothered me was when Carver called me (female Hawke) "Brother" in the Deep Roads.  Most everything else can easily, IMO, be brushed over and excused as "The Way of the Land".  Then again, I've been table-topping for so long that I just listen to the noise and hear what I need to move forward. LOL

[Mes]

Let's not forget being a bloodmage with LIs who despise bloodmagic.

"Don't mind me over here slicing my wrists/shoving a sword through my stomach. It's medicinal I swearz"

 

Haha YES! 

 

"Dun worry guyz it's just ketchup."

[Lady Nuggins]

To be honest I'm not sure I really want any real gender dialogue distinction between men and women in games (beyond talking about hair or what have you).

 

I'd like to see more of that in games. One reason I play male characters at all is because I automatically feel "safe" and "strong" because of these weird little gender differences everywhere. I want to feel "safe" and "strong" as a woman, too (because HEY that's what I am in real life). And I think getting rid of random, pointless sexist remarks and attitudes toward women can help.

 

I agree, for the most part.  As much as I hate how FemShep was pretty much ignored in favor of male Shep, for instance, I liked being "treated like a man"--i.e. not constantly have my authority and ability questioned by random NPCs. 

 

Wrong game, but I liked Eve/Bakura with Fem!Shep. They connected.

 

I also liked Leliana complimenting the female Warden's hair. Not because 'all girls love their hair/talking about their hair' but because Leliana does and she's trying to connect with you. It could turn flirtatious or not. And you have the option of responding with 'it's just hair', too.

 

Tough thing is about gender-specific dialogue is because half the time, it's based on assumptions and even stereotypes.

 

How often would you change what you'd say to a person, based purely on their gender alone?

 

To a dude: "Do you like this sword?"

To a lady: "Do you like this sword?"

 

So, yeah, I'd challenge a writer to think about why they want something gender-specific in any instance (Not talking about some vile baddie spouting drivel and using the low-hanging fruit to insult.) And if that gender-specific dialogue is important to the character/plot or if it's just based on assumptions about the differences in gender. The above example with Leliana does play into a bit about women talk about their hair, but it also allows a person to debunk it, too. It's actually good, too, because it fits Leliana's character to say it in the first place, which is important when creating good gender-specific dialogue/interactions.

 

Yes, I think so too.  So many female-specific lines tend to talk about appearance, for example, instead of ability.  And anyway, if you're going to call my lady PC pretty, why can't you compliment my male one on how nice he looks once in a while?  I probably spent just as long working on him in the CC.

 

That part with Leliana is great for the same reason that I like the line with Morrigan--because it reveals something about her character.  It makes sense that Morrigan, who was raised by a powerful witch and knew almost nobody else, and whose primary experience with men was watching them flee in terror from Flemeth, would have more respect for another woman than she would for three hysterical men. 

 

So maybe gender specific dialogue is most appropriate for character development purposes--for the more important characters, not the random NPCs you talk to only once or twice.  It makes perfect sense that a character would behave differently around friends and comrades of one gender than of another. 

[Mes]

I agree, for the most part.  As much as I hate how FemShep was pretty much ignored in favor of male Shep, for instance, I liked being "treated like a man"--i.e. not constantly have my authority and ability questioned by random NPCs. 

 

 

Yes, I think so too.  So many female-specific lines tend to talk about appearance, for example, instead of ability.  And anyway, if you're going to call my lady PC pretty, why can't you compliment my male one on how nice he looks once in a while?  I probably spent just as long working on him in the CC.

 

That part with Leliana is great for the same reason that I like the line with Morrigan--because it reveals something about her character.  It makes sense that Morrigan, who was raised by a powerful witch and knew almost nobody else, and whose primary experience with men was watching them flee in terror from Flemeth, would have more respect for another woman than she would for three hysterical men. 

 

So maybe gender specific dialogue is most appropriate for character development purposes--for the more important characters, not the random NPCs you talk to only once or twice.  It makes perfect sense that a character would behave differently around friends and comrades of one gender than of another. 

 

Can you imagine the uproar if some male bartender at town #4 commented on your male PC's good looks?   It'd be the silly Anders drama all over again.

 

Totally agree with you regarding dialogue for character development purposes. And ideally done in a way that compliments one gender rather than insulting it. I can't quite recall the dialogue with Morrigan with male Warden, but I'm pretty sure she doesn't mention his gender or otherwise insult him based on it. But with the female Warden, she brings it up in a positive light. 

[Lady Nuggins]

Can you imagine the uproar if some male bartender at town #4 commented on your male PC's good looks?   It'd be the silly Anders drama all over again.

 

That alone makes me want it to happen. 

[Ryzaki]

Honestly that Straight Male Gamer™ thread was a goldmine of hilarity.

 

And trying to point the romance did not start unless he picked the big golden heart. Then people saying they didn't realize the heart would start a romance. Oh dear...

[Ispan]

Having fewer gender distinctions is looking more and more appealing.  I love being complimented as much as the next person, but not when it makes my appearance more important than my abilities or actions.  An example is when people meet my children and tell my son he is very clever and tell my daughter she is pretty.  Maybe they have good intentions, but it has ugly implications.

 

Honestly that Straight Male Gamer™ thread was a goldmine of hilarity.

 

And trying to point the romance did not start unless he picked the big golden heart. Then people saying they didn't realize the heart would start a romance. Oh dear...

 

lol, the big shiny heart was one of the only straight-forward parts of the dialogue wheel!

[Wulfram]

People seem to like Taegan and Cullen flirting with their characters, I notice.  Perhaps because those conversations tend to put the PC in a position of power, rather than seeming demeaning?

 

(I wasn't keen on the intended-to-be-feminist stuff with Eve/Bakura.  Ultimately it seemed like it reinforced gender stereotypes, rather than contested them)

[Mes]

lol, the big shiny heart was one of the only straight-forward parts of the dialogue wheel!

 

A big shiny no h omo heart! 

[Ryzaki]

A big shiny no h omo heart! 

 

Seriously that's exactly what it works in Anders kiss. Right before he lip locks you have 2 hearts (one which is pretty much a GET ON WITH IT button and results in no dialogue whatsoever but liplocking commences) and one broken heart (that does the obvious).

 

That cracked me up so hard.

[GVulture]

People seem to like Taegan and Cullen flirting with their characters, I notice.  Perhaps because those conversations tend to put the PC in a position of power, rather than seeming demeaning?

 

(I wasn't keen on the intended-to-be-feminist stuff with Eve/Bakura.  Ultimately it seemed like it reinforced gender stereotypes, rather than contested them)

Yes, I like it when the game reacts to my gender/race/whatevers because... well... I dunno. I just do. I even like Carth's aggressive, "HEY YOU CUT THAT **** OUT!" and Kaidan's "Oh, boy. That's a bad idea" when people are crap faces to my PC because she is a girl.

 

If I didn't want to ROLE PLAY  a game that didn't react to my choices, I'd play Elder Scrolls. Where no one gives too flips about anything.

 

This is actually my biggest pet peeve with the Bethesda Fallout games. In FO2, there were quest outcomes and story lines written based on my gender. Fall out 3? ONE interaction the entire game and ONLY if I chose a perk to unlock it. Bump that noise.

[Ryzaki]

At least the guards react to me shouting everywhere. I always assumed that must be obnoxiously loud. But yeah Bethesda games (much as I love them) mostly have you be pretty neutral.

 

Though killing the Legion as a woman never gets old.

[Lady Nuggins]

Yes, I like it when the game reacts to my gender/race/whatevers because... well... I dunno. I just do. I even like Carth's aggressive, "HEY YOU CUT THAT **** OUT!" and Kaidan's "Oh, boy. That's a bad idea" when people are crap faces to my PC because she is a girl.

 

If I didn't want to ROLE PLAY  a game that didn't react to my choices, I'd play Elder Scrolls. Where no one gives too flips about anything.

 

That's kind of why I wanted to pose the question of what some good examples of gender specific dialogue might be, because I know it must exist, but we seem to be having difficulty picturing what that would look like.  What made those examples work for you? 

[Darth Krytie]

Yes, I like it when the game reacts to my gender/race/whatevers because... well... I dunno. I just do. I even like Carth's aggressive, "HEY YOU CUT THAT **** OUT!" and Kaidan's "Oh, boy. That's a bad idea" when people are crap faces to my PC because she is a girl.

 

If I didn't want to ROLE PLAY  a game that didn't react to my choices, I'd play Elder Scrolls. Where no one gives too flips about anything.

 

This is actually my biggest pet peeve with the Bethesda Fallout games. In FO2, there were quest outcomes and story lines written based on my gender. Fall out 3? ONE interaction the entire game and ONLY if I chose a perk to unlock it. Bump that noise.

 

I get that, I do but it just seems to me that whenever there's a reaction to gender, it's predominately a negative reaction...as have been mentioned before...either about the appearance of the lady or the dubious skills of the lady. If they compliment you, it's all you do awesome...for a woman. Which isn't really a compliment, is it? Or I'm surprised you're awesome, because you're a woman. Meaning other women aren't?

 

And then there's the whole 'hey pretty lady' commentary which meh. Boring.

 

So, I'd love to see what people would think is a good gender specific dialogue...not based on what we've seen already, but in the future...how do people want it to look?