So, I'd love to see what people would think is a good gender specific dialogue...not based on what we've seen already, but in the future...how do people want it to look?
Well that's a hard one. What kind of differences are there between men and women, really, that aren't horrible stereotypes?
Well that's a hard one. What kind of differences are there between men and women, really, that aren't horrible stereotypes?
Not many, really.
Though I wouldn't be against a 'is this life different than you expected' type conversation if they framed it right. Yanno, not in the disbelief that you, a woman, are the inquisitor, but framing it as your 'origin story' had certain expectations attached, is this easier/harder because of that, depending on what your origin is...
And since they already have had the previous smattering of negative things in the past games, and they're not gonna disappear, I wouldn't say no to being able to ask Cassandra for advice or something and she replies with 'always know your sword is bigger than theirs' or something. I always love ladyfriendships. Really tight ladyfriendships. They are some of my favourite things.
Heck yeah, ladyfriendships! I love developing a close bond with my female party members. I am alls about the friendships. It would be neat if certain characters were more comfortable around one gender or another. If you could still get them to be friends and open up to you either way, but one gender required a lot more work to do so. This could go for male or female--how many men are nervous around women, and vice-versa?
I think tying it to the origin is great, and context is key here. Being a female dwarf is different from being a female qunari. Elves seem to make no distinction based on gender, but female dwarves have that history of struggle for equality, while qunari are a whole different beast. Things like having qunari call you by a different term whether you're male or female, maybe.
Honestly, after playing through Origins as a male and then going back as a female, I wanted to flip the table over how many times I got BS about my gender. Going by lore alone, I'd expect women to be stereotyped as more inclined to leadership, patient, and even more 'enlightened' (Andraste, Ser Aveline), while the guys are expected to be somewhat more immature and emotionally driven - not weepy, but more inclined to think small-scale and be reckless or treacherous (Maferath, Conobar). Anora, Celene, the many queens of Antiva, Meredith, Justinia, Fiona - women have power all across Thedas, while I struggle to think of canon male rulers other than Cailan, Loghain, potentially Alistair, and Viscount Dumar. So hearing 'what is this a female Warden' from all these places was actively immersion-breaking for me.
I agree that context is vital here. I might expect to face casual misogyny as a dwarf woman talking to dwarf men - the continuing fight for equality there is a known issue. A qunari is probably going to do a double-take if I've got breasts and a sword regardless of my race, but they'd be equally confused if they met Bodahn - a man should not be a merchant. As an elf running around in mostly Orlais, I wouldn't be surprised to get objectifying comments on my appearance regardless of if I was male or female. But casual stuff like 'I wasn't expecting a woman' and 'I swear, I'm braver than all of you, and I'm a woman' doesn't make sense with the lore and shouldn't be there.
I've been sitting here, trying to think of a way for a positive female-specific thing to say, and it's hard, because it generally sounds like you're putting down all other women when you do.
"You're strong" vs "You're a strong woman" for instance.
My thought is simple--say a positive thing, then call attention to the fact that the PC is female. "You're strong, m'lady!" or "Flames, girl, you're badass!" Basically, every once in awhile, substitute Ser for a gender-appropriate title.
I don't think it needs to be a huge difference, but these things do improve role-playing and character building moments.
And this thread just reminded me of why I got so annoyed whenever someone brought up my gender in DAO. Most of the times it was condescending and nonsensical. Only time I was fine with it was when it was Sten. Or another female.
It would be cool if there were some gender specific quest options such as you need to sneak into the chantry and male characters have to sneak through the back, but females have the option of posing as a priest (or either gender could pass the equivalent of a speech check and convince the priests they are making a delivery or something) or a much less savory example would be something like a female rape victim only being willing to open up to a female PC. Your female PC could express fear of becoming a broodmother when in the deep roads, talk about pretty pretty dresses with other female NPCs/companions, etc...In SWtOR in the Jedi Knight story, there is this Twi'lek girl you can befriend, if you're female you can become blood sisters with her and I love sister type stuff (Morrigan's sisterly talk in DA:O actually made me cry). Some random ideas
-Band of all female bandits/thugs is harassing a village, when female PC goes to the village and is clearly a fighter, the villagers jump to the conclusion that she's one of them
-You have to escort a noble guy to safety but do it subtly, if female you can pretend to be his wife in order to keep close by in a high ranking area such as a palace
-Get makeup tips from Vivienne 
-There is a female duchess or first enchanter, etc...and if female you can impersonate her to get by security
-Band of Qunari less willing to fight female PC because they think ladies don't fight
Of course have similar kinds of situations but where male PCs have the upper hand. Also I really want my race to be recognized as much as possible, and yes I want Orlesians to call my male and female elves pretty.
It would be cool if there were some gender specific quest options such as you need to sneak into the chantry and male characters have to sneak through the back, but females have the option of posing as a priest (or either gender could pass the equivalent of a speech check and convince the priests they are making a delivery or something) or a much less savory example would be something like a female rape victim only being willing to open up to a female PC. Your female PC could express fear of becoming a broodmother when in the deep roads, talk about pretty pretty dresses with other female NPCs/companions, etc...In SWtOR in the Jedi Knight story, there is this Twi'lek girl you can befriend, if you're female you can become blood sisters with her and I love sister type stuff (Morrigan's sisterly talk in DA:O actually made me cry). Some random ideas
I never understood why this wasn't in the game. You'd think it'd be a very real concern for a fem PC especially given what happens during her calling. But nope never brought up whatsoever.
I get that, I do but it just seems to me that whenever there's a reaction to gender, it's predominately a negative reaction...as have been mentioned before...either about the appearance of the lady or the dubious skills of the lady. If they compliment you, it's all you do awesome...for a woman. Which isn't really a compliment, is it? Or I'm surprised you're awesome, because you're a woman. Meaning other women aren't?
And then there's the whole 'hey pretty lady' commentary which meh. Boring.
So, I'd love to see what people would think is a good gender specific dialogue...not based on what we've seen already, but in the future...how do people want it to look?
With a female Inquisitor who was good aligned you could have some random NPC you talk to say something like "Thank the Maker for sending another daughter to lead us out of the darkness."
It would be cool if there were some gender specific quest options such as you need to sneak into the chantry and male characters have to sneak through the back, but females have the option of posing as a priest (or either gender could pass the equivalent of a speech check and convince the priests they are making a delivery or something) or a much less savory example would be something like a female rape victim only being willing to open up to a female PC. Your female PC could express fear of becoming a broodmother when in the deep roads, talk about pretty pretty dresses with other female NPCs/companions, etc...In SWtOR in the Jedi Knight story, there is this Twi'lek girl you can befriend, if you're female you can become blood sisters with her and I love sister type stuff (Morrigan's sisterly talk in DA:O actually made me cry). Some random ideas
-Band of all female bandits/thugs is harassing a village, when female PC goes to the village and is clearly a fighter, the villagers jump to the conclusion that she's one of them
-You have to escort a noble guy to safety but do it subtly, if female you can pretend to be his wife in order to keep close by in a high ranking area such as a palace
-Get makeup tips from Vivienne
-There is a female duchess or first enchanter, etc...and if female you can impersonate her to get by security
-Band of Qunari less willing to fight female PC because they think ladies don't fight
Of course have similar kinds of situations but where male PCs have the upper hand. Also I really want my race to be recognized as much as possible, and yes I want Orlesians to call my male and female elves pretty.
I know I've said I didn't mind what was in Origins, but I like those even better. Less throwaway lines more gameplay and quest changes.
Yes, I like it when the game reacts to my gender/race/whatevers because... well... I dunno. I just do. I even like Carth's aggressive, "HEY YOU CUT THAT **** OUT!" and Kaidan's "Oh, boy. That's a bad idea" when people are crap faces to my PC because she is a girl.
If I didn't want to ROLE PLAY a game that didn't react to my choices, I'd play Elder Scrolls. Where no one gives too flips about anything.
This is actually my biggest pet peeve with the Bethesda Fallout games. In FO2, there were quest outcomes and story lines written based on my gender. Fall out 3? ONE interaction the entire game and ONLY if I chose a perk to unlock it. Bump that noise.
I get that, I do but it just seems to me that whenever there's a reaction to gender, it's predominately a negative reaction...as have been mentioned before...either about the appearance of the lady or the dubious skills of the lady. If they compliment you, it's all you do awesome...for a woman. Which isn't really a compliment, is it? Or I'm surprised you're awesome, because you're a woman. Meaning other women aren't?
And then there's the whole 'hey pretty lady' commentary which meh. Boring.
So, I'd love to see what people would think is a good gender specific dialogue...not based on what we've seen already, but in the future...how do people want it to look?
That's pretty much how I feel G, any sort of recognition is better than none, sir.
I know I've said I didn't mind what was in Origins, but I like those even better. Less throwaway lines more gameplay and quest changes.
If they're going to take the time to make extra lines and reactions, might as well do something fun with it.
It would be cool if there were some gender specific quest options such as you need to sneak into the chantry and male characters have to sneak through the back, but females have the option of posing as a priest (or either gender could pass the equivalent of a speech check and convince the priests they are making a delivery or something) or a much less savory example would be something like a female rape victim only being willing to open up to a female PC. Your female PC could express fear of becoming a broodmother when in the deep roads, talk about pretty pretty dresses with other female NPCs/companions, etc...In SWtOR in the Jedi Knight story, there is this Twi'lek girl you can befriend, if you're female you can become blood sisters with her and I love sister type stuff (Morrigan's sisterly talk in DA:O actually made me cry). Some random ideas
-Band of all female bandits/thugs is harassing a village, when female PC goes to the village and is clearly a fighter, the villagers jump to the conclusion that she's one of them
-You have to escort a noble guy to safety but do it subtly, if female you can pretend to be his wife in order to keep close by in a high ranking area such as a palace
-Get makeup tips from Vivienne
-There is a female duchess or first enchanter, etc...and if female you can impersonate her to get by security
-Band of Qunari less willing to fight female PC because they think ladies don't fight
Of course have similar kinds of situations but where male PCs have the upper hand. Also I really want my race to be recognized as much as possible, and yes I want Orlesians to call my male and female elves pretty.
These sound absolutely fantastic. I also would like the fact that I am female to be recognized and to have some kind of effect in the game. Just... not the kind it has in most of Origins and occasionally in DA2 (less commenting on my female character's looks, please, unless the male PC gets the exact same reaction is the exact same situation) for reasons that have been summed up in this thread already. But this is a perfect example of the kind of ways they cut make the gameplay different for a female PC- in a manner that isn't negative or degrading but one that simply acknowledges and pays attention to her gender.
I never understood why this wasn't in the game. You'd think it'd be a very real concern for a fem PC especially given what happens during her calling. But nope never brought up whatsoever.
Well, the stuff you drink when you're being made a Warden has lyrium and archdemon blood in it, rather than just being darkspawn blood; doesn't sound the same as normal (if you can call it that) exposure to the taint, which makes you a ghoul.
Doesn't sound like being made into a Broodmother either; that sounds like a several-day-long ritual. Hespith made it sound a bit more complicated than just eating darkspawn flesh; she's done that herself, after all, and she's not a broodmother. Yet.
Aha - found the rhyme:
Sixth day its her screams we hear in our dreams
Seventh day she grew as in her mouth they spew
Eighth day we hated as she is violated
Ninth day she grins and devours her kin
Mind you, I'd want to make good and sure I died on my calling. Just to be on the safe side. Slow acting poison, I think. I'm sure Zevran or Isabella would set me up.
I never understood why this wasn't in the game. You'd think it'd be a very real concern for a fem PC especially given what happens during her calling. But nope never brought up whatsoever.
Well, the stuff you drink when you're being made a Warden has lyrium and archdemon blood in it, rather than just being darkspawn blood; doesn't sound the same as normal (if you can call it that) exposure to the taint, which makes you a ghoul.
Doesn't sound like being made into a Broodmother either; that sounds like a several-day-long ritual. Hespith made it sound a bit more complicated than just eating darkspawn flesh; she's done that herself, after all, and she's not a broodmother. Yet.
Aha - found the rhyme:
Sixth day its her screams we hear in our dreams
Seventh day she grew as in her mouth they spew
Eighth day we hated as she is violated
Ninth day she grins and devours her kin
Mind you, I'd want to make good and sure I died on my calling. Just to be on the safe side. Slow acting poison, I think. I'm sure Zevran or Isabella would set me up.
I think they're referring more to since your warden would be feeling the effects of age and the corruption that instead of being killed in battle by the darkspawn during their calling they would instead be dragged off by them to be turned into a brood mother not that they would just become one due to the corruption they had itself. Though that's just my interpretation I could be getting it wrong completely.
As for the topic I would like dialog for the female PC to make more sense it always caught me off guard how surprised everyone was by the fact that I had lady bits the only time I was questioned about my abilities as a female warden that I really enjoyed was Sten since it actually matched his culture and character other Fereldens though it just felt odd since their whole religion is based off of a woman who was a great warrior and leader. What one person suggested having some slight differences in how to do quests based on gender sounded good like the chantry example was excellent I would love to make a character have to pretend to be a sister of the chantry to sneak in for a mission or something. Though if we get quests affected by gender then we would have to have quests affected by race too but that seems obvious :/
Yes it's more the worry of being dragged off during epic last stand than anything.
That's what I thought it was, I always wondered why that wasn't brought up for a female warden especially dwarf noble since you're tossed into the deep road with just a sword on you, you'd think learning that would bring up some major issues. Actually that's the main reason I kill the architect even more so when playing a female. Being a broodmother would be horrible being one that could remember the traumatizing experience she went through would be even worse.
It would be cool if there were some gender specific quest options such as you need to sneak into the chantry and male characters have to sneak through the back, but females have the option of posing as a priest (or either gender could pass the equivalent of a speech check and convince the priests they are making a delivery or something) or a much less savory example would be something like a female rape victim only being willing to open up to a female PC. Your female PC could express fear of becoming a broodmother when in the deep roads, talk about pretty pretty dresses with other female NPCs/companions, etc...
Actually in Origins, even men can get in on the 'pretty pretty dresses' conversation - a mage Warden of either sex and Alistair can start off talking about why Alistair is a templar and get sidetracked onto which side has a more fashionable uniform. Which, I might point out, involves floor-length skirts on both men and women. Now there's a side to the Mage-Templar debate you don't see often. Also, both men and women can talk with Leliana about shoes, though the hair conversation is restricted to women. Besides, we're going to Orlais, with Vivienne. Everyone should have the chance to gossip about the newest trends in court fashion.
Dialogue like with the guards in the CE origin quest, who will make a whole bunch of race and gender-specific offensive comments while you smile and serve them poisoned brandy. (The option to murderknife them in the eye instead should remain).
A woman having difficulties with Qunari diplomacy, because they're too busy trying to wrap their heads around the blatant gender role violation to talk about trade routes.
A man having equal but different difficulties with Qunari diplomacy, where they take him back to their leader and she takes a very dim view of negotiating trade with a man.
Two women in the aftermath of a broodmother fight having a shaken conversation, promising that they'll kill each other before they let the darkspawn take them.
A chevalier not wanting to duel a woman to the point of calling the whole thing off - at least unless you throw down the gauntlet yourself because you WANT to fight and he's not weaseling out of it that easily.
These are brilliant! I want to play all of these ideas.
A crazy doomsday prophet declares that your female PC is the reincarnation of Andraste, and follows you around proclaiming your divinity. For a male PC, the reincarnation of Maferath, her mortal husband who betrayed her, and he hurls curses at you. Either scenario is hilarious and annoying for everyone involved.
A qunari artisan wants you to speak to potential buyers on her behalf during your travels, to open up trade deals. If you're male, she expresses doubt in your ability to understand trade.
You need to help some dalish catch a wild halla. Since they're this world's equivalent of unicorns, they're said to respond to young women while scared of men. If you play female, you can carefully walk up to the halla, while a male could scare it from the bushes for someone else to catch.
You need to sneak into a fancy Orlesian ball. A female PC can wear a gown that weapons can be concealed under. A male PC has to pose as a servant, and stash weapons in a back room instead.
There is also one thing- and this is more about romance, really. But I remember how I was incredibly amused by the way Merrill responds to a male Hawke flirting with her at the start of Mirror Image. I mean, with a female Hawke she gets kind of blushy and embarassed, but with a male Hawke she is not just totally unfazed but she sort of brushes you off with a snarky comment. I was so shocked because I was just not expecting that kind of response at all but afterwards I found it hilarious (and one of the many things I love about her as a character). I have a few theories about the reason behind that difference, but anyway, I also wouldn't mind a bit of little stuff like this too.
That's pretty much it, it's just a "feel" they're talking about, like how people in period pieces talk in english accents even when the characters didn't or didn't even speak english.
This is what I dislike about something like Game of Thrones (despite really enjoying the series). I see a lot of people look at it and assume "yeah, this is probably how history was like man."
They then take these assumptions into history without any sort of validation, and it can become the basis of "historical realism" that people expect.
Having fewer gender distinctions is looking more and more appealing. I love being complimented as much as the next person, but not when it makes my appearance more important than my abilities or actions. An example is when people meet my children and tell my son he is very clever and tell my daughter she is pretty. Maybe they have good intentions, but it has ugly implications.
lol, the big shiny heart was one of the only straight-forward parts of the dialogue wheel!
I find this an interesting challenge. It came up at PAX as well, and I've learned it can be a problem elsewhere in other media when "the male action is considered the powerful one." But at the same time, having distinctions can be problematic, whether it be "strong woman" issues, or other problems. And is making the distinction good?
Some will say yes, and some will say no (regardless of the actual quality of the distinction). I can see merits to both and find it pretty interesting.
It would be cool if there were some gender specific quest options such as you need to sneak into the chantry and male characters have to sneak through the back, but females have the option of posing as a priest (or either gender could pass the equivalent of a speech check and convince the priests they are making a delivery or something) or a much less savory example would be something like a female rape victim only being willing to open up to a female PC. Your female PC could express fear of becoming a broodmother when in the deep roads, talk about pretty pretty dresses with other female NPCs/companions, etc...In SWtOR in the Jedi Knight story, there is this Twi'lek girl you can befriend, if you're female you can become blood sisters with her and I love sister type stuff (Morrigan's sisterly talk in DA:O actually made me cry). Some random ideas
-Band of all female bandits/thugs is harassing a village, when female PC goes to the village and is clearly a fighter, the villagers jump to the conclusion that she's one of them
-You have to escort a noble guy to safety but do it subtly, if female you can pretend to be his wife in order to keep close by in a high ranking area such as a palace
-Get makeup tips from Vivienne
-There is a female duchess or first enchanter, etc...and if female you can impersonate her to get by security
-Band of Qunari less willing to fight female PC because they think ladies don't fight
Of course have similar kinds of situations but where male PCs have the upper hand. Also I really want my race to be recognized as much as possible, and yes I want Orlesians to call my male and female elves pretty.
Brilliant!!
This, again, reminds me of Dragon's Dogma (I promise I've played other games too... 
). There was one area that you could only get into, or complete certain quests in, if the resident female bandits thought you were also a female. But you could get around it if you were a male by donning some fancy dresses. Seriously. So one time I had a group of four men dress as women to get around this obstacle.
It was hilarious at the time, but honestly now I'm not sure how I feel about that. 
Like, were the bandits just stupid? I think if DAI had something similar, they'd best be a little more creative about it.
These are brilliant! I want to play all of these ideas.
A crazy doomsday prophet declares that your female PC is the reincarnation of Andraste, and follows you around proclaiming your divinity. For a male PC, the reincarnation of Maferath, her mortal husband who betrayed her, and he hurls curses at you. Either scenario is hilarious and annoying for everyone involved.
A qunari artisan wants you to speak to potential buyers on her behalf during your travels, to open up trade deals. If you're male, she expresses doubt in your ability to understand trade.
You need to help some dalish catch a wild halla. Since they're this world's equivalent of unicorns, they're said to respond to young women while scared of men. If you play female, you can carefully walk up to the halla, while a male could scare it from the bushes for someone else to catch.
You need to sneak into a fancy Orlesian ball. A female PC can wear a gown that weapons can be concealed under. A male PC has to pose as a servant, and stash weapons in a back room instead.
I love ALL of these ideas.
Basically I'd love anything that makes sense with the DA lore rather than some weird perceived "real life" scenarios. Someone mentioned a rape victim being more comfortable around women - In that case I would sort of love to see a male rape victim being more comfortable around a male PC. I mean if we're going to go that route, why not be a little progressive about it.
And why keep sticking with female bandits being comfortable around other females? If men and women are equal in Thedas, with women arguably being more powerful, wouldn't it make more sense for a group of male bandits to be more comfortable around male PCs? And get scared seeing a female PC?
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