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[The Hierophant]

But is there some kind of lore that says "only males can offend sexually in the world of Dragon Age"? I don't think there is.
 
If there isn't, and if it's not seriously lore-defying (like all the anti-women dialogue IS lore-defying yet it's still in the game).... then why not? Why not explore the possibility, in a fantasy game, of men stumbling across hardships such as assault etc from women and finding another man to commiserate with or what have you.
 
Honestly. Why not.   In the name of social progression, even in a fantasy, video game world. In the name of... variety! There is no reason not to do this.
 
Not that I'd like to explore rape per se. To be honest I can't recall rape being mentioned anywhere in DAO or DA2. (Not to say it isn't there somewhere - feel free to remind me, I just can't recall the specifics.)
 
Look, a video game can have a profound effect on a person (raising my own hand here, hello Bioware, how you doin'). And a person can be greatly positively effected if they find a character or a situation with which they can relate to. The topic of rape is extremely negative and it bothers me that it's the one thing a couple of you are clinging on to, but... Say there's some man out there who had been assaulted by a woman but is too embarrassed to say anything in real life. Then he plays a game where some random NPC expresses the same issues... Then he might start to feel that hey, maybe he's not alone after all, maybe he's not crazy for feeling what he's feeling. Video games, like any media, has the potential to effect lives in a positive manner.
 
My personal point, again, is that I'd like to see each human gender represented in a positive light. Why do we have to focus on rape, or discrimination, or one person being uncomfortable with one gender over the other. Why. Why can't it be posiitive. "Hey, I like you" to a male, and "Hey, I like you A LOT" to a female.

I seriously hope you're not seriously thinking that my post is a pro argument for DA's rapists being soley presented as men because it's not. In short i found one of your examples unlikely due to a pattern in the writing and think that there won't any changes if the writers intended this to be so or are oblivious to the subconscious inclusion of irl crime rates.

I empathize with you're stance since being hounded with discriminatory dialogue specifically aimed at your gender can be demoralizing, and annoying but the inclusion of sexism being espoused by some characters isn't a lore inconsistency outside of Ferelden (cc statement) and historical Aveline being killed for being a warrior in a society who's patron saint is a woman who's considered a warrior. I think a lot of people are mistakingly assuming that Thedas is supposed to be a social utopia by conflating the developers' stances on inclusion, and player agency with what is supposed to be the social woes of Thedas.

Mind you i have no problem with the writers toning down on the sexism as it's not used a thematic element for the story which adds nothing to the plot unlike say racism for the human elf interactions.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Orlais will be... interesting, considering they aren't as Pro-Gender Equality as Ferelden is.

[Ryzaki]

I hope femWarrior can put any uptight Chavilers in their place.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Personally, if they want to keep sexism think it should go both ways. Why are only men the jerks? 

[The Hierophant]

So we've been doing it poorly thus far?  Noted.
 
 
EDIT: To be clear, I think this line you've drawn in the sand is being pretty obtuse.  If it wasn't clear to you that Mes was referring to a woman raping a man, it's been clarified.  If you think the idea of a woman raping a man in Thedas is impossible based upon what we've seen so far in the game, then that is something you'd have to reconcile on your own, since it's irrelevant to the discussion at this point.

No. I don't consider a woman victimizing a man as impossible but the bias in DA's writing so far makes it seem like an unlikely scenario regardless if it's intentional or not on the writers' part. If they've noticed it now then that's good. Plus the gender disparity between criminals is not irrelevant to this discussion as it's right there in the story alongside the sexist remarks towards female pcs.

[Banxey]

Orlais will be... interesting, considering they aren't as Pro-Gender Equality as Ferelden is.

 

How is Orlais not as equal? 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How is Orlais not as equal? 

Well, they killed a woman for participating in a men's event for starters. Even now females are 'discouraged' from joining the Chevaliers. 

[KaiserShep]

Personally, if they want to keep sexism think it should go both ways. Why are only men the jerks?

That Y chromosome can be a bit erratic. To think that the X puts up with it.

[Mes]

Personally, if they want to keep sexism think it should go both ways. Why are only men the jerks? 

 

Something I've been trying to say for ages, but you've put it very succinctly. Bwahaha! 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Something I've been trying to say for ages, but you've put it very succinctly. Bwahaha! 

Well, you're welcome. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, they killed a woman for participating in a men's event for starters. Even now females are 'discouraged' from joining the Chevaliers. 

 

That's REALLY stretching into history, as in the Qunari had yet to invade.

 

Also Female warriors exist within Orlais, just apparently most appear within the ranks of the Templars or Seekers.

 

EDIT: Aveline was apparently slain in the Storm Age, The Qunari wars were ongoing, that's still three centuries before DA though.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's REALLY stretching into history, as in the Qunari had yet to invade.

 

Also Female warriors exist within Orlais, just apparently most appear within the ranks of the Templars or Seekers.

 

EDIT: Aveline was apparently slain in the Storm Age, The Qunari wars were ongoing, that's still three centuries before DA though.

Hence the "Even now females are 'discouraged' from joining the Chevaliers" part.

[Darth Krytie]

That's REALLY stretching into history, as in the Qunari had yet to invade.

 

Also Female warriors exist within Orlais, just apparently most appear within the ranks of the Templars or Seekers.

 

Very true. Plus, more of the major players we've seen in the games and the books have been women than men.

 

Not saying bias doesn't exist. Especially when you get up to the nobility. Then it's a lot of pressure to ensure the family line and marry into an equally good standing family to ensure you remain ahead of the other nobles. That's the game when you're a noble, especially in Orlais.

[Master Warder Z_]

Hence the "Even now females are 'discouraged' from joining the Chevaliers" part.

 

Then preserve through it? If they are noble there isn't anything but prejudice preventing it, and if they are good enough to be there, they will eventually end up there.

 

 

Very true. Plus, more of the major players we've seen in the games and the books have been women than men.

 

Not saying bias doesn't exist. Especially when you get up to the nobility. Then it's a lot of pressure to ensure the family line and marry into an equally good standing family to ensure you remain ahead of the other nobles. That's the game when you're a noble, especially in Orlais.

 

Leliana comes to mind, Seeker and Hand of the Divine and also happens to not have a wang

 

And of course Bias exists, Orlais is a culture, an Empire that has its traditions and rites set into stone and they are rarely overturned culturally with out major pushing, they are about like most Countries in Thedas in that regard, its just they happen to take it a bit further then most.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Then preserve through it? If they are noble there isn't anything but prejudice preventing it, and if they are good enough to be there, they will eventually end up there.

The same can be said of any sexism shown in the world so far. 

[BlueMagitek]

I hope femWarrior can put any uptight Chavilers in their place.

 

Oh, I was hoping you'd be able to join that organization if you were a warrior.  :/

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Oh, I was hoping you'd be able to join that organization if you were a warrior.  :/

We are already an Inquisitor, so I doubt we can join other orders. 

[BlueMagitek]

We are already an Inquisitor, so I doubt we can join other orders. 

 

I thought that a Chevalier was also a position of lesser nobility, which would allow for overlap.

 

At the very least, need that specialization.

[Master Warder Z_]

The same can be said of any sexism shown in the world so far. 

 

Then in truth it, to me at least isn't overt sexism.

 

Its just cultural difference.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I thought that a Chevalier was also a position of lesser nobility, which would allow for overlap.

 

At the very least, need that specialization.

It will more likely be a specialization, like how Templar is despite the Warden and Hawke never becoming one. 

[BlueMagitek]

It will more likely be a specialization, like how Templar is despite the Warden and Hawke never becoming one. 

Good.... good...

 

And, on the bright side, that finally allows for all classes to have an additional way of coercing other people!  I hear people go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about wanting the blood magic spec to offer additional options in conversation (though blood mind control, of course), and the rogue has the bard option to try and cajole the other person, but the poor warrior is left with intimidation.  With this spec, it's possible that an option opens  where you can use your position to open new options!  Yay~

 

I know this is probably not going to happen though. ~_^

[naddaya]

Personally, if they want to keep sexism think it should go both ways. Why are only men the jerks? 

 

Morrigan and Flemeth are a bit sexist. At the beginning, at least.

[Allan Schumacher]

I also wouldn't mind if we saw any sort of female child who gets inspired by our female inquisitor to go out and become a warrior or something. I'd love something like that.

 
 
A potential problem I see with this, given the distinction between men and women in Dragon Age is less pronounced, is that it could undermine the relative equivalence of men and women if the little girl only responded to a female protagonist.  If men and women are often seen in this type of position, wouldn't it make more sense for the girl to be inspired by the inquisitor, regardless of the Inquisitor's sex?

[Darth Krytie]

A potential problem I see with this is that, given the distinction between men and women in Dragon Age is less pronounced, is that I think it could undermine the improved equivalence of men and women if the little girl only responded to a female protagonist.  If men and women are often seen in this type of position, wouldn't it make more sense for the girl to be inspired by the inquisitor, regardless of the Inquisitor's sex?

It's a fair point. And I'd rather have few or no differences between male/female Inquisitors than negative ones or even positive ones if it failed to serve the lore properly.

 

However, I know in the real world (I know, bringing it into the DAS) having same gendered role models can be very important because that's when you can truly see yourself in that position when you're older. I've met both males and females in my chosen field, but it wasn't until I was truly inspired by a woman who was really wonderful and inspirational that I thought of it for myself. So, that's sort of where my mind was when I suggested it.

[Allan Schumacher]

It's a fair point. And I'd rather have few or no differences between male/female Inquisitors than negative ones or even positive ones if it failed to serve the lore properly.

 

However, I know in the real world (I know, bringing it into the DAS) having same gendered role models can be very important because that's when you can truly see yourself in that position when you're older. I've met both males and females in my chosen field, but it wasn't until I was truly inspired by a woman who was really wonderful and inspirational that I thought of it for myself. So, that's sort of where my mind was when I suggested it.

 

 

I understand how you came to think of it.  I think part of the challenge is the nuanced differences between Dragon Age's reality and our own.  I think that the general equality that exists in Dragon Age is a good thing, and as am placing my own biases/ideals in that I think it'd be preferred if a little boy could find inspiration in a female Inquisitor just as well as a little girl could find inspiration in a male Inquisitor (and all other permutations).

 

Though I don't mean to be a buzzkill or a downer by pointing out my reticence.  I more brought it up to kind of illustrate the challenges that come when we're presenting a world that is similar, but has differences, with our own.