424 réponses à ce sujet

[MattH]

What is the difference between playersexual and bisexual? Is playersexual an alignment assigned according to the sexuality of the pc?

 

I always took playersexual to mean that they'd be the attracted to the sex as the player character, rather than openly saying they liked men or women. 

 

When you romance Anders as a women you don't hear mention of him being attracted to men, and vise versa when you romance him as a man. Where as Isabela (and Zevran?) openly admit to having sex with both men and women, regardless of the player character's gender, therefore they are bisexual, rather than playersexual.

[Mes]

I must say, it is NICE to see this thread get some action again! 

 

(I forget... was the butt-slapping man here or in a different one? Bwahaha)

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I must say, it is NICE to see this thread get some action again! 

 

(I forget... was the butt-slapping man here or in a different one? Bwahaha)

That was this thread. JimboGee is his name. 

[JCFR]

In the past two games, there aren't overly large divergences in the dialogue or way the NPCs react to you based on your gender. (And when I say based on gender, it's usually specifically about a player's femaleness). However, I've noticed that they're predominately negative ones.

 

Like comments on you being a lady warden. Or NPCs making crude comments about you being a lady. I don't actually recall anyone reacting negatively to a male Warden or Hawke for being male.

 

Anyhow, I'd really like if as Inquisitor, I don't encounter any disrespect purely based on the gender of my character. Given the world has a matriarchal religious society and many women in power in various places, it seems odd. And if there must be disrepect to the Inquisitor if she's female, then equalise it and have male Inquisitors face a similar problem in another area.

 

It detracts from the enjoyment of being able to be a kickass woman in a videogame if you encounter disrespect you could avoid by playing as a male.

Well... it may be natural and all but... also some kind of sexist. I wouldn't mind, but i bet there are some feminists that would very much.

And since the female inquisitor is no damsel in disterss... why treating her like that?

[Spirit Keeper]

The way I see it, if there is going to be sexism for the sake of realism then the PC of both genders should get it equally. I had a discussion on youtube recently about sexism and I made a point in saying that most of the time when sexism is brought up, it usually women talking how unfortunate they are and how they suffer because of big, meanie men. It's outstanding how sexism as a whole gets overlooked with focused placed on women.

 

I've seen comments made on this thread which suggest if a creepy women tried to make rape-ish comments to your character as a man then it would probably be just a flirt option 'because men just sleep with things and are the ones doing the penetrating' etc etc bla bla. That is a very sexist comment. Sure it may have been in jest. But if nobody has a problem with a comment (or joke) like that but flip their lids over 'make me a sandwich' jokes then you'd have to start looking at the possibility of misandry. 

 

As an equalist I think that if real world issues of sexism are going to be in the game the both sides need to be shown, both the misogynistic and misandristic sides.

[Mes]

The way I see it, if there is going to be sexism for the sake of realism then the PC of both genders should get it equally. I had a discussion on youtube recently about sexism and I made a point in saying that most of the time when sexism is brought up, it usually women talking how unfortunate they are and how they suffer because of big, meanie men. It's outstanding how sexism as a whole gets overlooked with focused placed on women.

 

I've seen comments made on this thread which suggest if a creepy women tried to make rape-ish comments to your character as a man then it would probably be just a flirt option 'because men just sleep with things and are the ones doing the penetrating' etc etc bla bla. That is a very sexist comment. Sure it may have been in jest. But if nobody has a problem with a comment (or joke) like that but flip their lids over 'make me a sandwich' jokes then you'd have to start looking at the possibility of misandry. 

 

As an equalist I think that if real world issues of sexism are going to be in the game the both sides need to be shown, both the misogynistic and misandristic sides.

 

I actually mostly agree with this - sexism can often go both ways, and if it's gonna be in there for the sake of "because uh... realism... uh... realism...", then make it go both ways.

 

The rape-ish comments from women thing - in my experience, it's almost always men who claim that other men will always enjoy that sort of thing. Very sad.

 

If sexism is at all to be added into the games, it should be friggin' thoughtfully explored like other conflicts in Thedas.

[Gwydden]

I actually mostly agree with this - sexism can often go both ways, and if it's gonna be in there for the sake of "because uh... realism... uh... realism...", then make it go both ways.

Realism is a legitimate argument. Historical evidence in the real world suggests patriarchy is a natural and most likely inevitable consequence of civilization, at least on the short term. So I believe that when pre-industrial but post-agricultural fantasy worlds don't have any of the issues that come with it an explanation should be given. A good example of this done well would be The Wheel of Time, where women are always just as or even more privileged than men due to a) that world actually having regressed from a far more advanced society and b ) women being the only ones who can practice magic. Dragon Age is more vague, but I can imagine it is due to Andraste having been a woman. That still doesn't really explain it for the dwarves, though. An instance where there was sexism from women toward men would be really interesting, but yet again would require a plausible explanation.

[Mes]

Realism is a legitimate argument. Historical evidence in the real world suggests patriarchy is a natural and most likely inevitable consequence of civilization, at least on the short term. So I believe that when pre-industrial but post-agricultural fantasy worlds don't have any of the issues that come with it an explanation should be given. A good example of this done well would be The Wheel of Time, where women are always just as or even more privileged than men due to a) that world actually having regressed from a far more advanced society and b ) women being the only ones who can practice magic. Dragon Age is more vague, but I can imagine it is due to Andraste having been a woman. That still doesn't really explain it for the dwarves, though. An instance where there was sexism from women toward men would be really interesting, but yet again would require a plausible explanation.

 

Natural? Inevitable?  The product of societal regression? Oh lord. You don't like women, do you.

 

My "realism uhhh relism" quote was in reference to Cameron's stuttering explanation regarding the decision to create companions with set sexualities. I honestly dislike the "realism" argument because it seems people use it when they don't particularly understand what reality even is.

 

Dragon Age is an entirely fantastical universe. Whatever people think may or may not have happened during some period on Earth has nothing to do with the game.

 

Our history was written by old white men in an attempt to glorify other old white men. I wouldn't put too much faith into it.

[Banxey]

The way I see it, if there is going to be sexism for the sake of realism then the PC of both genders should get it equally. I had a discussion on youtube recently about sexism and I made a point in saying that most of the time when sexism is brought up, it usually women talking how unfortunate they are and how they suffer because of big, meanie men. It's outstanding how sexism as a whole gets overlooked with focused placed on women.

 

I've seen comments made on this thread which suggest if a creepy women tried to make rape-ish comments to your character as a man then it would probably be just a flirt option 'because men just sleep with things and are the ones doing the penetrating' etc etc bla bla. That is a very sexist comment. Sure it may have been in jest. But if nobody has a problem with a comment (or joke) like that but flip their lids over 'make me a sandwich' jokes then you'd have to start looking at the possibility of misandry. 

 

As an equalist I think that if real world issues of sexism are going to be in the game the both sides need to be shown, both the misogynistic and misandristic sides.

 

I see your point, but I also think you made that sound a bit worse than it was. The comment was problematic because it deals with absolutes, but as far as men not turning down sexual advances from an attractive person in a game setting, and perceiving "rapey" comments as a flirt? Quite a few games cast women as play things, I don't believe it is out of the realm of possibility that a large percentage of males would perceive any sexual comment from an attractive NPC female to be a flirt, or from an ugly one as a joke flirt. Women are just so rarely portrayed as anything other than sex objects in games that it is ultimately detrimental to people's perceptions. 

 

This isn't to say that men are incapable of seeing the creepiness of it, but if you don't expect it, or rarely live it, it's just less likely you will.

 

However, if that commenter was implying that men would sleep with any woman outside of a game who hit on them, I agree it was unfortunate. 

[DaySeeker]

It seems like the obvious answer a disrespectful NPC would be disrespectful to any inquisitor based on the inquisitor's position and not gender.  Of course if an NPC was trying to be offensive they would choose the social aspect of the PC that is most vulnerable like race or gender.

 

I don't remember any comments of the sort discussed, it may be because I thought them laughable when my female warden or champion was so obvious superior.  I may be because I'm a man.  There were a large number of women in positions of power and respected for it and not condescended too.  There were also female antagonists.  Overall, Bioware did a fantastic job of respecting gender.  

[In Exile]

Realism is a legitimate argument. Historical evidence in the real world suggests patriarchy is a natural and most likely inevitable consequence of civilization, at least on the short term. So I believe that when pre-industrial but post-agricultural fantasy worlds don't have any of the issues that come with it an explanation should be given. A good example of this done well would be The Wheel of Time, where women are always just as or even more privileged than men due to a) that world actually having regressed from a far more advanced society and b ) women being the only ones who can practice magic. Dragon Age is more vague, but I can imagine it is due to Andraste having been a woman. That still doesn't really explain it for the dwarves, though. An instance where there was sexism from women toward men would be really interesting, but yet again would require a plausible explanation.

 

Realism is an absurd argument, because this is a world where the sky literally opened up to have demons fly out of it. Not only that, but the actual history of this world absolutely rejects any notion of a patriarchy having any role in civilization. 

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Are humans naturally patriarchal though? I mean like lions, without supervision or education.

[Darth Krytie]

Are humans naturally patriarchal though? I mean like lions, without supervision or education.

 

The divide between men and women lessened considerably when women gained greater control over reproduction. I don't know if it makes humans more or less naturally patriarchal. I think when the playing field is leveled, that there's not enough sway either way. But the patriarchy was firmly entrenched by the time it got there, buoyed by a lot of religions framework.

 

If women always had control over their reproduction the way they do now? (In some parts of the world). Would most cultures have developed along the patriarchy? It's an interesting question. The same would go for if a wide-spread religion had a female as its central icon? Who knows.

[Lady Nuggins]

Remember, our written history is skewed by the assumptions of old white men. Anthropology and archaeology have only recently started to unravel a lot of the white, male, Victorian ideologies that first coloured them. Most of our ideas about gender throughout history come from one of the most sexually oppressed periods in the western world.

We now know that cave paintings were mostly done by women, not men. Cave men probably didn't go around raping and dragging women around by their hair like popular culture likes us to believe. Women contributed, they were valuable.

We know that medieval women were viewed as more rational, and therefore better suited to be in charge of households and money, then men. Class was a way more significant divider than gender. Maid Marion dressed in drag and fought Robin Hood until he recruited her as one of his men, Guinevere was treated in stories as being as much a ruler as King Arthur. It was Victorian retellings of these stories that made them more proper, quiet, helpless ladies.

This is not even touching on non-European cultures. Many Indigenous cultures are egalitarian, with distinct but equally respected roles for different genders. Japanese history is full of legendary queens and other female figures. Japanese culture, like ours, became more sexist in recent centuries than it had been before.

Long story short, misogyny is a product of our current place in history, not a natural default. Inserting it into a fantasy world is more a reflection of our current views than of the time period the game is supposed to be loosely based on.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

So some bedtime reading tells me that chimps are patriarchal.

[Mockingword]

So some bedtime reading tells me that chimps are patriarchal.

They also rip people's faces off, and fling poop around.

 

Maybe there's a connection.

[Lady Nuggins]

Yet interestingly enough, bonobos are matriarchal.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Indeed, there's a research suggesting that humans would be more peaceful if we had more power, like the females of the peaceful bonobos. And if we found macho tough guys less attractive (that's not happening)

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Ninja

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Um, what does this have to do with the topic?

[Lady Nuggins]

Speak for yourself. Macho tough guys have never been my type.

[Mockingword]

Speak for yourself. Macho tough guys have never been my type.

I like macho guys, but only when they bottom.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Yet interestingly enough, bonobos are matriarchal.

So were the Iroquois, if memory serves.  But they still had plenty of war.  At the very least, they were matrilineal societies.  Also, pastoralist societies tend to be rigidly patriarchal. Farming societies tend to be less rigidly patriarchal.  And bonobos can also be pretty violent.

[Mes]

Long story short, misogyny is a product of our current place in history, not a natural default. Inserting it into a fantasy world is more a reflection of our current views than of the time period the game is supposed to be loosely based on.

 

Beautiful post. I agree with this phrase in particular.

 

Is it so much to ask to escape misogyny for a few hours playing a video game? *sigh*

 

No one would miss the mild sexism of Dragon Age if it were taken away. The only people who even notice, or care, that it's there are those who feel hurt by it.

 

Last I checked video games were supposed to provide an escape.

[Auztin]

I always looked at it like if that person don't respect & wants to insult you.They will like the actual world use gender,race,accent,name,& ect to insult you.