215 réponses à ce sujet

[me0120]

Then how does it kill swarmers!

 

 

It doesn't!

[Dunvi]

Then how does it kill swarmers!

Only on bugged attribution deaths (certain sources of damage have no player associated with them and thus attribute their damage to the previous thing before it - which oddly enough cryo blast counts for).

[Miniditka77]

Yawn.

 

HI - 396

QMI - 412

DI - 403

 

With numbers so close, and not in the HI's favor, it might be good to take powers into consideration. And if your argument is the HI does more damage to armor you should check just how much damage is actually lost after everything (including ammo type). 

 

Yawn.

 

DI numbers require debuff from Recon Mine, which takes several seconds to activate (and doesn't stagger mooks unless you detonate).  Plus, armor damage even with the debuff is less than the HI.

 

QMI numbers require use of Tactical Scan, which I highly doubt you use on mooks other than maybe Phantoms (and it also doesn't stagger).  So vs. mooks, you're looking at a 32.5% damage loss.  Plus, Tac Scan has a long animation that Cryo Blast does not, which lets you get to the shooting faster.  It does have higher armor damage than the HI, but the time you spend in the Tac Scan animation probably comes close to cancelling that.

 

Yeah, the QMI and the DI are going to kill stuff faster because of Arc Grenades or Recon Mine.  That makes them better classes than the HI, it doesn't make them better with a specific weapon than the HI.

[Argent Xero]

what is this, I don't even...

[me0120]

Yawn.

 

DI numbers require debuff from Recon Mine, which takes several seconds to activate (and doesn't stagger mooks unless you detonate).  Plus, armor damage even with the debuff is less than the HI.

 

QMI numbers require use of Tactical Scan, which I highly doubt you use on mooks other than maybe Phantoms (and it also doesn't stagger).  So vs. mooks, you're looking at a 32.5% damage loss.  Plus, Tac Scan has a long animation that Cryo Blast does not, which lets you get to the shooting faster.  It does have higher armor damage than the HI, but the time you spend in the Tac Scan animation probably comes close to cancelling that.

 

Yeah, the QMI and the DI are going to kill stuff faster because of Arc Grenades or Recon Mine.  That makes them better classes than the HI, it doesn't make them better with a specific weapon than the HI.

 

Wow, you must suck at this game. What platform do you play on?

 

You are basing this off of mooks? What need do you have to Cryo Blast any mook besides a Phantom/Dragoon/Collector Captain? If you are looking for stagger, a quick burst at a mooks head will take out their shield and then they are staggered. Your argument is literally worthless.

 

If you want to compare Tac Scan, Recon Mine, and Cryo Blast without damage I can do that. Recon Mine doesn't need targeting or line of sight, the 3 second primer is compared well to Cryo Blast's 2.22 second cooldown with a CSR X. Recon Mine is also separated from Tactical Cloak cooldown and can be primed before the next cycle. The point is, unless you are considering one mook (not reason enough to warrant a debuff) Recon Mine is a better debuff in every way. And for Tac scan. The choice between AoE Tac Scan and the extra 10% can be tough. For the extra 10%, duration is longer and you only need line of sight during the beginning of the animation. The shorter cooldown means you can enter cloak faster. For the AoE, you get a damage bonus on a good sized area and don't need line of sight. 

[Heldarion]

 

Alquinn, I used to play QFE for cryo blast, not HI. Since CB is sorta useless for tech bursts, I would take her with either cryo ammo or disruptor ammo. Weapon mods max out rather low for piercing and I would rather take a smart choke on my Claymore than double piercing mods. It becomes quite relevent.

 

My understanding is that armoured enemies negate 50 points of damage on Gold and Plat. Against Claymore, this is pretty much worthless, but I suspect it's more effective against fast firing weapons with lower damage per bullet. That's why I'm saying armour reduction is relatively redundant.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[BurningLiquor]

My understanding is that armoured enemies negate 50 points of damage on Gold and Plat. Against Claymore, this is pretty much worthless, but I suspect it's more effective against fast firing weapons with lower damage per bullet. That's why I'm saying armour reduction is relatively redundant.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I thought that the armor damage reduction applies to each pellet separately, so the Claymore would actually lose 400 damage instead of just 50 due to firing eight pellets.

 

I could be wrong though.

[Teh_Ocelot]

My understanding is that armoured enemies negate 50 points of damage on Gold and Plat. Against Claymore, this is pretty much worthless, but I suspect it's more effective against fast firing weapons with lower damage per bullet. That's why I'm saying armour reduction is relatively redundant.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think armor mitigation for shotguns is 50 per pellet, so iirc, the Claymoar has 8 pellets per shot, so you're losing 400 dmg to armor per trigger pull, assuming all 8 pellets hit. 

 

Anyone know any different?

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

What need do you have to Cryo Blast any mook besides a Phantom/Dragoon/Collector Captain? 

 

I know I'm just jumping into this without even knowing what the argument is about, but I cryo blast absolutely everything. Apologies if I've missed some context.

[me0120]

I know I'm just jumping into this without even knowing what the argument is about, but I cryo blast absolutely everything. Apologies if I've missed some context.

 

You're not missing anything important. 

[Teh_Ocelot]

I know I'm just jumping into this without even knowing what the argument is about, but I cryo blast absolutely everything. Apologies if I've missed some context.

Context is that BSNer A suggested the Cryo Blast is a better debuff than something...Recon Mine?...and use mooks to argue his point, which BSNer B wouldn't stand for and argued that the only non-boss-level enemies that would need a CB were Phantom/Dragoons/Collector Captains.

 

IIRC. 

[OniGanon]

the Sentinel doesn't necessarily have faster combos.  See above - the Sentinel needs to fire 6 powers to get 3 explosions, the HA can get it in 3 casts.  Plus, the Sentinel's powers are both easily dodged.  Singularity and Shockwave both usually hit even if the enemy tries to dodge.  And I don't know why the Sentinel would have better CC.... Shockwave is an awesome power that staggers multiple enemies, and Singularity usually staggers when it hits too.  To each his own, I guess - but the reasons you're putting out there aren't entirely accurate.

 

 

Overload is hitscan, better CC, and generally results in dead infantry faster than biotic comboes or warp ammo primed shooting. That's why I value it higher.

 

In theory you can get 3 explosions in three casts. In practise, getting two enemies to stay within 2m of a Singularity long enough for the cooldown to pass and then be hit by the slow as hell Shockwave, and then have another enemy near the Singularity ~3s later to be hit by Warp, it's not the easiest thing to set up. And against a single target, you only get 2 explosions, and that's only if the enemy is kind enough to stay within 2m of the Singularity for 8s, which they are often not.

 

In addition to the faster Warp + Throw comboes, I was also referring the Sentinel's faster tech comboes due to Throw. With Incendiary Ammo and a light shotgun like Talon or Wraith, Sentinel can kill infantry simply by shooting them once in the face and casting Throw for a Fire Explosion.

 

Sentinel has better CC because of 2m radius, ~1s cooldown, ~1000N Throw. Enemies can dodge it? A dodging enemy is a controlled enemy, so I don't really care.

[me0120]

My understanding is that armoured enemies negate 50 points of damage on Gold and Plat. Against Claymore, this is pretty much worthless, but I suspect it's more effective against fast firing weapons with lower damage per bullet. That's why I'm saying armour reduction is relatively redundant.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

What the people below you said about the Claymore losing 400 damage. Also worth noting is how Armor mitigation and Armor weakening work. They combine separately.

[Chealec]

You see, while I agree on the off host thing, I don't get why people disregard this kit on host too. I mean I'm the first fan of the Drellguard, Slayer and Cabal, but... They're different. They're more... Finesse characters. More powerful, sure, and possibly more fun too. But the Novaguard's fun too, and in his own unique way.

With the novaguard you just charge head down into the mess and nova your way out like a boss. No soft cover thinking, no stagger thinking, no teleport thinking... You just charge and start novaing in-their-face. There's a certain special feeling to that, for me. Not to rely on tactical positioning and behavior, just to stand out there in the open and proudly face all the **** this game can throw at you. It's a more... Direct way of playing the battle, you know?

 

Yeah - I can see that ... it's just not for me really

[me0120]

Context is that BSNer A suggested the Cryo Blast is a better debuff than something...Recon Mine?...and use mooks to argue his point, which BSNer B wouldn't stand for and argued that the only non-boss-level enemies that would need a CB were Phantom/Dragoons/Collector Captains.

 

IIRC. 

 

The argument is that the CSR is a better weapon on the HI than anything else. I said the QME, QMI, and DI are all better with it. He said they are only better because of their powers (lol). In his premise he is using Cryo Blast as the reason that the HI is better than the other three (omg it's a power) so I am saying why Tac Scan and Recon Mine are better than Cryo Blast as a debuffer, as-in, not including the damage.

[OniGanon]

Wait, why are we discussing Recon Mine or Tactical Scan? Which of the vanilla humans have those?

[Teh_Ocelot]

The argument is that the CSR is a better weapon on the HI than anything else. I said the QME, QMI, and DI are all better with it. He said they are only better because of their powers (lol). In his premise he is using Cryo Blast as the reason that the HI is better than the other three (omg it's a power) so I am saying why Tac Scan and Recon Mine are better than Cryo Blast as a debuffer, as-in, not including the damage.

Oh I see....well, in that case........I'm pretty sure I agree w/ you. And lol to "only better w/ powers" argument....

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

The argument is that the CSR is a better weapon on the HI than anything else. I said the QME, QMI, and DI are all better with it. He said they are only better because of their powers (lol). In his premise he is using Cryo Blast as the reason that the HI is better than the other three (omg it's a power) so I am saying why Tac Scan and Recon Mine are better than Cryo Blast as a debuffer, as-in, not including the damage.

 

Lol

[Deerber]

It's the only thing cryo blast has going for it really, so quite.

Cryo blast only otherwise wins in cooldown, which means fairly little. It does no damage, has a really bad priming precondition, cannot detonate at all, its slowing effect is rather pointless unless stacked (which requires team effort).

Its only talking points are really the damage taken bonus and armor reduction (which requires 21 whole points to get), and when you actually add up both the armor reduction and the damage taken bonuses, the totals are riduculously outshined by equal or greater amounts from powers like snap freeze, recon mine, even buffed proxy mine, which have some extra things going for them as well as the armor reduction or damage taken bonuses. Since all the power has is these bonuses, it should do them best, and by a lot, but it doesn't.

WAT!!!

Dunvi pls. Cryo blast is the best pure debuff power in the game.


By the way, to those arguing about it. It does not 40 damage upfront. However, it does kill swarmers regularly after about 10 secs. This logically leads to the conclusion that it comes with a stupidly low dot.

[Teh_Ocelot]

I thought swarmers had a shelf life anyway, and if you hit them w/ CB and run off, when they "die" you get the "kill". 

 

Anyone know fashow?

[Deerber]

I thought swarmers had a shelf life anyway, and if you hit them w/ CB and run off, when they "die" you get the "kill".

Anyone know fashow?

Swarmers don't die by themselves. Not in 10 secs anyway. Test it yourself. Find a swarmer, CB it, and watch it for 10 secs. It'll die.

[me0120]

I thought swarmers had a shelf life anyway, and if you hit them w/ CB and run off, when they "die" you get the "kill". 
 
Anyone know fashow?

Yeah they do have a time limit. I counted at one point but forgot what it was.

[Heldarion]

Swarmers die by themselves. It's just kinda hard to notice because you probably made 10 laps around the map and oblierated next 3 waves in the meantime.