82 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

Not likely. Dumat was before Andraste, and spent 400 years ravaging the surface.

 

I think Flemeth was born after Andraste's rebellion against Tevinter. 

[Divine Justinia V]

Not likely. Dumat was before Andraste, and spent 400 years ravaging the surface.

 

I think Flemeth was born after Andraste's rebellion against Tevinter. 

 

It's possible another Old God took control of her physical being after, though.

[TheLastAwakening]

And here I was thinking that Flemeth was the Queen of dragons or at least a fragment cast aside. Certainly something old;

 

 “I am a fly in the ointment. I am a whisper in the shadows. I am also an old" ;  old woman. Old Legend, perhaps an old god. Old forgotten ones- unlikely. Lie and manipulation:  "That is our craft, but not our purpose."

 

 

"More than that you do not need to know.”

 

If not any of these things I think it is likely that Flemeth held a high position in an old clan/tribe that practices the old ways; of magic and their culture. As for whether I think she is Dumat...

[Divine Justinia V]

The Queen of Dragons has quite the ring to it though.

[Jack Druthers]

I think Flemeth was born after Andraste's rebellion against Tevinter. 

Andraste was born at -203 Ancient(992 TE) in Denerim,  Flemeth was born in the Tower age.

[Anvos]

Andraste was born at -203 Ancient(992 TE) in Denerim,  Flemeth was born in the Tower age.

 

Eh whatever, same difference.  Flemeth is still significantly separated from the death of Dumat for it to be likely he bonded with her.

[Jack Druthers]

@ Anvos my point just sailed over your head.

Nobody knows for certain.  The point I was making is that Flemeth existed during the third blight. There has been an indication that Andraste could have been a powerful mage. Which could lead to to the daughter theory above. Who is to say that she did die at her execution, we are only left with an urn of ashes purported to be her remains.   Flemeth has shown to be likewise, we cannot say anything is for definite where magic and the old gods are involved.  There has been another indication that ashes of the dead can be animated, though it is not clear how.

 

It seems that there were loads of events during the first blight http://dragonage.wik...ki/First_Blight 

 

We are talking about a lot of time passing here http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Timeline 

[Vulpe]

Now the first "grey wardens" who "killed" Dumat might not of actually been proper wardens. The joining requires a mixture of darkspawn blood, lyrium, and archdemon. Accoring to Riordan (or at least i think it was him who said it) the first "wardens" only drank darkspawn blood. Now according to David Gaider you can become grey warden as long as you take in the corruption with enough potency to make the effect immediate. Normal darkspawn blood can do this as long as it has been magically treated but there is no mention of the first wardens doing this, why would they? They wouldn't know that its vital to have the taint to truly kill an archdemon (or just an old god if Dumat wasn't tainted because he was controlling the darkspawn out of free will). Nor do I think they would know how to magically treat darkspawn blood in the right way. This would mean that when Dumat was "killed" by the "wardens" instead of his soul joining with that of a grey wardens and perishing, it would go and seek another darkspawn. Meaning Dumat is still out there.

 

 

 

My friend, your theory might have a weak point. You see, an Archdemon can be killed by any one, but it will always seek a new host and transform that hosts body into an Archdemon. Only a grey warden can truly kill one, just like you said.

 

We don't know if the archdemon body disapears when killed by a non warden or anything like that. For me it wouldn't make sense, so it's safe to say that it remains there until it descomposes.

 

That would mean that prior to Dumat's true death, he was killed a few times before, only to come back. We know that this happended. That would mean that the soldiers could have access to Archdemon blood. 

 

We don't know if the Archdemon's blood is truly potent if only it is killed by an warden. If that's the case, this part of your theory is still viable. If not, you have an explenation of how the first wardens could have had access to archdemon blood for their Joining.

 

 

 

As for the Flemeth Dumat thing...it's interesting, but it's somehow dependant on the archdemon blood thing. Still, if the first wardens had access to archdemon blood it doesn't mean they used it, so there is still a chance that Dumat is still alive. There are also subtle hints that it might actually be the case.

 

As for my personal belief, I have a different theory regarding Flemeth and the Old Gods. I personally think that Flemeth is of the same nature as The Old Gods and that she's their guardian. I don't believe that The Old Gods are evil ( or at least not all of them...maybe Dumat was/is, but still not sure). I believe that they play a similar role as The Seven Seals Of The Apocalypse from the Bible ,that they hold the Veil up and going and that they hold the source of the Taint imprisoned in The Black City. That would explain why the Veil is getting weaker ( lesser Old Gods, more Teil Vears, demons and spirits) 

 

I think that Flemeth uses other exceptional characters like The Warden to fight the Archdemons and wants the OGB because she knows that the Veil must be mentained, but she can't act directly because she could be tainted by the darkspawn ( imagine a Flemeth Archdemon ).

 

As for the Old Gods...I think that when the last one dies The Apocalypse starts in Thedas and the Taint and it's source starts messing around in the material world.

[DrBlingzle]

Eh whatever, same difference.  Flemeth is still significantly separated from the death of Dumat for it to be likely he bonded with her.

Well actually I think its just the chantry history that says she was born in the towers era. I think Flemeth claimed she was born before the begining of the chantry.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't believe Flemeth ever said when she was born. But the legends of her only go back as far as the Towers Age. Morrigan says something about her being around before the Circle of Magi but I thought she meant the Circle of Magi in Ferelden, which I thought only came to exist after Calenhad united Ferelden.

[Ieldra]

I like the idea of Flemeth being an Old God. However, if Dumat created the dakrspawn, and Flemeth is Dumat, why would she help the Wardens or devise the Dark Ritual?
 
If Flemeth is Dumat, my theory would be that he/she was indeed corrupted by the darkspawn. However, Dumat's "death" wasn't neither the typical Archdemon's final death or the also typical Archdemon's fake death (I suspect the Wardens would have noticed the difference; the only way they could know that killing an Archdemon in a normal way doesn't work has to be because they tried first). Instead, Dumat's soul was purified like what happened to Urthemiel's soul if we chose the Dark Ritual.
 
How? I don't know. But that would be a nice mystery to find out.
 
Now, Flemeth/Dumat, weakened but purified at last, is helping because she wants her peers purified and freed. Maybe she tried the same thing in every past Blight, but only worked (or not) in DA:O.

That sounds much more plausible - and a great deal more appealing - than the OP's hypothesis. I think that there is indeed a link between Flemeth and the Old Gods, maybe she is a re-incarnated Dumat, or a so far unknown eightth one. This could also lead to a decision about what to do about the "essence" of the Old Gods, which may result in her becoming a friend or an enemy.

[azarhal]

Andraste was born at -203 Ancient(992 TE) in Denerim,  Flemeth was born in the Tower age.

 

The person meet in the game that you call Flemeth says in DAO that this is how the Chasind call her and that it will do (for the Warden). She even says that "names are pretty but useless" when Alistair complains that she haven't told them her name. In DA2, she list a bunch of titles, insults and nicknames when Hawke ask who she is and Flemeth is only one of them.

 

She use Flemeth as a cover, it's not who she is.

[Jack Druthers]

It all seems like there are loads of minor revenge and manipulation plots too.   Maybe in her grief and anger during the Conobar story, she made a mistake with her casting and it just all went to hell, leaving her vulnerable and open to possession.

 

http://dragonage.wik..._entry:_Flemeth says she was from Highever 

 

http://dragonage.wik...Cousland_family says Flemeth murdered her husband in the Tower Age

 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Highever says that  Howe was distantly related to Conobar, Flemeth's husband.

 

I can't remember exactly, but Flemeth says about something about an event which men killed for her and it "dictated all that followed" when the warden asks what did the world do to her, she refuses to answer.

 

http://dragonage.wik...tinel_armor_set  says  that it was worn by a Grey Warden who killed Dumat but does not name him.  

[DrBlingzle]

My friend, your theory might have a weak point. You see, an Archdemon can be killed by any one, but it will always seek a new host and transform that hosts body into an Archdemon. Only a grey warden can truly kill one, just like you said.

 

We don't know if the archdemon body disapears when killed by a non warden or anything like that. For me it wouldn't make sense, so it's safe to say that it remains there until it descomposes.

 

That would mean that prior to Dumat's true death, he was killed a few times before, only to come back. We know that this happended. That would mean that the soldiers could have access to Archdemon blood. 

 

We don't know if the Archdemon's blood is truly potent if only it is killed by an warden. If that's the case, this part of your theory is still viable. If not, you have an explenation of how the first wardens could have had access to archdemon blood for their Joining.

 

Good point, well made. At this point I think Spiredash's thory (that flemeth is the OGB of dumat) is more likely than mine, it answers a lot of the critisisms that mine faced. Would still mean Flemeth is technically Dumat just not in the way my theory proposed. The big question, if this is true, is: who's her dad? 

[StarcloudSWG]

Flemeth is not Dumat.

 

It's far more likely that Flemeth is the elves' Fen'Harel. The trickster who stands between the Sky and the Earth.

 

"Do you know who I am, beyond that title?"

[wcholcombe]

Flemeth is not Dumat.

 

It's far more likely that Flemeth is the elves' Fen'Harel. The trickster who stands between the Sky and the Earth.

 

"Do you know who I am, beyond that title?"

I don't think she is that either.  If Morrigan's warning is legitimate about how dangerous Flemeth is, I think she may be one of the two remaining forgotten ones we haven't met yet.  Though it is hard for me to take Morrigan's warning at face value when she never bothered to explain exactly what Flemeth was or why she is dangerous.

 

If Flemeth was Fen'Harel I don't think she would present herself as she does.  I think she is something else entirely.  We just don't know what yet.

[Swoopdogg]

I really want Flemeth to be the antagonist. No matter who that means she is

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think she is that either.  If Morrigan's warning is legitimate about how dangerous Flemeth is, I think she may be one of the two remaining forgotten ones we haven't met yet.  Though it is hard for me to take Morrigan's warning at face value when she never bothered to explain exactly what Flemeth was or why she is dangerous.

 

If Flemeth was Fen'Harel I don't think she would present herself as she does.  I think she is something else entirely.  We just don't know what yet.

 

You mean Forbidden Ones? The Forgotten Ones are the evil elven deities. The Forbidden Ones are the super powerful demons like Gaxkang and Xebenkeck.

[A.Kazama]

The reason Flemeth survived for so long...:

HORCRUXES!!!

[wcholcombe]

You mean Forbidden Ones? The Forgotten Ones are the evil elven deities. The Forbidden Ones are the super powerful demons like Gaxkang and Xebenkeck.

Yeah them. Still don't think we have a clue what she is.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It's possible she's one of them, but I just feel like given how she seems a much more significant encounter in the games (both storywise and gameplay wise) than either of them that she is probably something different.

[KC_Prototype]

Uhhhh, I can't quote:(

[Lucy Glitter]

We have totes had this discussion since Origins. Lol.

[Mister Chompski]

I think it will be a while before we find out what ever she really is.

[J-Reyno]

The Queen of Dragons has quite the ring to it though.

It does.  It'd be cool if it was literal, and she was the mother of the Old Gods.  

 

That or as others mentioned the daughter of Dumat.  Either of these would explain why she wants to help the warden.  She wants to save her little babies, or her father, and why she has an affinity for dragons.  And how she would know of something like the Dark Ritual.

 

Orrrr she could just be some old powerful woman who just wants the Old God power for herself.  *shrugs*