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[wcholcombe]

Everyone has keyed in on the idea of Tevinter being based on Byzantium.

Are we sure Tevinter isn't Rome and Orlais an amalgamation of France/Spain or even Byzantium?

Tevinter is older than Orlais, was once bigger, is now considered in decline and Orlais is seen as the "rising" power for the past 1000 years.

The imperial Chantry is older than the Orlesian one much as Roman catholic predates Greek Orthodox.

The Romans executed Christ the Tevinters executed Andraste.

Tevinter converted from a polyestic worship of dragons to an Andrastian faith, much as Rome converted from the Roman gods to Christianity.

There are more then likely holes in this, some I am aware of, but just an interesting idea that popped into my head as I was trying to sleep last night.

[Xilizhra]

Byzantium was Rome, just a Greek-speaking version with an eastern capital. But it was more or less an unbroken continuation from the Eastern Roman Empire that, of course, was just half of the original, full Empire. Modern Tevinter is like medieval Byzantium; ancient Tevinter was the Roman Empire at its greatest.

[Lulupab]

Byzantium was Rome, just a Greek-speaking version with an eastern capital. But it was more or less an unbroken continuation from the Eastern Roman Empire that, of course, was just half of the original, full Empire. Modern Tevinter is like medieval Byzantium; ancient Tevinter was the Roman Empire at its greatest.

Indeed. Byzantium was last remnant of Rome for many years after fall of Roman Empire.

[Eleinehmm]

Everyone has keyed in on the idea of Tevinter being based on Byzantium.

Are we sure Tevinter isn't Rome and Orlais an amalgamation of France/Spain or even Byzantium?

Tevinter is older than Orlais, was once bigger, is now considered in decline and Orlais is seen as the "rising" power for the past 1000 years.

The imperial Chantry is older than the Orlesian one much as Roman catholic predates Greek Orthodox.

The Romans executed Christ the Tevinters executed Andraste.

Tevinter converted from a polyestic worship of dragons to an Andrastian faith, much as Rome converted from the Roman gods to Christianity.

There are more then likely holes in this, some I am aware of, but just an interesting idea that popped into my head as I was trying to sleep last night.

 

Lots of  "Real World History, you are doing it wrong" in this post

1) Roman Catholic and Orthodox versions of Christianity are of the same age (check the general history of Ecumenical councils and  http://en.wikipedia....enical_Councils in particular)

2) Both Byzantium&Western Roman Empire were successor states of the Ancient Roman Empire

[Mistic]

Ancient Tevinter is Ancient Rome. Modern Tevinter is Byzantium. Despite the name we tend to use for them, the official name of the nation was still Roman Empire. The difference is that the Romans changed capitals, while Tevinter's is still the same.

 

Also, who says Roman Catholic Church predates the Eastern Orthodox Church? In fact, that controversy was one of the reasons they separated. I can also see the Imperial and White Chantries arguing about who was fisrt.

 

As for Orlais, I always thought it was a mix of France and the Holy Roman Empire. Drakon bears many similarities to Charlemagne.

[wcholcombe]

Lots of "Real World History, you are doing it wrong" in this post
1) Roman Catholic and Orthodox versions of Christianity are of the same age (check the general history of Ecumenical councils and http://en.wikipedia....enical_Councils in particular)
2) Both Byzantium&Western Roman Empire were successor states of the Ancient Roman Empire

I am not catholic so it isn't like I have a dog in the fight, but considering the Pope was the head of Christendom prior to Constantinople being built and was still the head of the Roman Catholic Church after, it seems while just as most protestant faiths track their history back to the founding of the Church we like the eastern orthodox split off from the originally established church of Rome.

When I said Rome I was referring to the Roman Empire, after the founding of Constantinople, Rome as a country was no longer truly Rome.

[Eleinehmm]

Ancient Tevinter is Ancient Rome. Modern Tevinter is Byzantium. Despite the name we tend to use for them, the official name of the nation was still Roman Empire. The difference is that the Romans changed capitals, while Tevinter's is still the same.

 

Also, who says Roman Catholic Church predates the Eastern Orthodox Church? In fact, that controversy was one of the reasons they separated. I can also see the Imperial and White Chantries arguing about who was fisrt.

 

As for Orlais, I always thought it was a mix of France and the Holy Roman Empire. Drakon bears many similarities to Charlemagne.

 

Heh, the funniest thing is that both of the churches consider themselves to be Orthodox and Catholic at the same time (True and All-encompassing, as the legitimate church is supposed to be according to the primary sources).
The topic starter has a rather strange view of medieval history of Europe.
 

France and HRE sounds about right.

[wcholcombe]

Heh, the funniest thing is that both of the churches consider themselves to be Orthodox and Catholic at the same time (True and All-encompassing, as the legitimate church is supposed to be according to the primary sources).
The topic starter has a rather strange view of medieval history of Europe.

France and HRE sounds about right.

Even most protestant faiths refer to believing in the Holy Catholic Church, but that isn't a reference to Roman or Orthodox.

[Eleinehmm]

Even most protestant faiths refer to believing in the Holy Catholic Church, but that isn't a reference to Roman or Orthodox.

*sigh.  Nah, it's a denominational descriptor. A fun fact nontheless.
Seriously I am an atheist, but your view of the Catholic over the Orthodox  Primacy is really strange. The primacy of  the Roman archon patriarch over all of the others (of Constantinople, Alexandria, Jerusalem and Antioch, if I recall it correctly) before the split is debatable . After the split: well, two diferent denominations - two different systems of rules.

 

[Lulupab]

Ferelden has some resemblance to England too. I don't know if it was intentional or no.

[Zered]

Ferelden has some resemblance to England too. I don't know if it was intentional or no.

I think also Scotland works for Ferelden.

[Aimi]

As for Orlais, I always thought it was a mix of France and the Holy Roman Empire. Drakon bears many similarities to Charlemagne.

 

And to Clovis.

 

I think that it's a mistake to identify any of the Thedosian countries or cultures too closely with real-world equivalents. It's a fictional setting, with fictional coloring. Elements of the storyline that bear strong similarity to real history are mixed and matched with entirely invented elements.

 

So yeah, Tevinter in the Dragon Age is supposed to be similar in some ways to the way Western European countries viewed the Byzantine Empire. The rule of the magisters and the slaveocracy, however - two incredibly important aspects of Tevinter's portrayal - have no analogy in Byzantine history. 

 

I am not catholic so it isn't like I have a dog in the fight, but considering the Pope was the head of Christendom prior to Constantinople being built and was still the head of the Roman Catholic Church after, it seems while just as most protestant faiths track their history back to the founding of the Church we like the eastern orthodox split off from the originally established church of Rome.

When I said Rome I was referring to the Roman Empire, after the founding of Constantinople, Rome as a country was no longer truly Rome.

 

There's a fairly intense debate over 'the head of Christendom' thing. One could make a strong argument for the pope/patriarch of Alexandreia. It seems clear that the papacy, although it possessed some authority in its sphere that the other four patriarchates did not (chiefly due to the patronage of the Western Emperors), and although it had considerable historical longevity, was not the unquestioned primate of the religion from its inception. The 'on this rock I shall build my church' line is papal propaganda, not something that has biblical originality.

 

If you look at the history of the Great Schism of 1054 - the final split between Catholic and Orthodox Christianity (leaving the complex history of the Council of Florence out of the equation) - the main dispute was over the fact that Western Christianity had 'grown' to contain elements of liturgy and ideology that were not in Christianity originally. The insertion of the filioque clause into the Creed, obviously, is the big innovation. Effectively, Western Christians were changing things without ecumenical approval. From a neutral observer standpoint - and I think that I am a reasonably neutral observer in this regard - Orthodoxy has a better claim to original Christianity than does Catholicism.

 

Neither claim is particularly good, considering the humongous changes in Christianity in the fourth and fifth centuries. The particular variant of Chalkedonian theology that became the primary form of the religion around the Mediterranean from the sixth century onward was not the exact same sort of Christianity that had motivated Constantinus I, let alone the Christians of the first century. That's the variant that gave birth to Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

 

If the Roman Empire 'after Constantinus' was not 'truly Rome', then I have to wonder what sort of Rome was 'truly Rome'. Was it the way the Republic was in the first century BC? Was it the kingdom that dominated Latium in the archaic era? Was it the principate under the so-called Five Good Emperors? Is modern France not 'truly French' because Occitan is virtually extinct, because Christianity is no longer a defining cultural feature, and because the French are no longer ruled by a king with ties to the Capetian family?

 

Countries, cultures, nations, peoples, and languages change. It'd be ridiculous to expect 'Rome' to only mean one immutable thing throughout its existence and nothing else. History is the study of change over time. Rome had changed a lot between the first century and the fifteenth century, but it was still called the Roman Empire and its people still called themselves Romans. To all intents and purposes, it was Rome. We simply use 'Byzantine' as shorthand, and because it's the most commonly used term in the West.

[Mistic]

I am not catholic so it isn't like I have a dog in the fight, but considering the Pope was the head of Christendom prior to Constantinople being built and was still the head of the Roman Catholic Church after, it seems while just as most protestant faiths track their history back to the founding of the Church we like the eastern orthodox split off from the originally established church of Rome.

 

No, not really. In the early times of Christianity, there was no clear head and decisions related to theology were taken in rather impressive councils. The first seven Ecumenical Councils took place in the Eastern Empire, in fact. If the Pope of Rome was seen as the most important head in later times was because it was the only major episcopal see (Rome, Alexandria, Constantinople, Antioch and Jerusalem) in the West. Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem fell to the muslims, and Charlemagne sponsored Rome a lot, so things changed by the time of the East-West Schism of 1054.

[Mistic]

And to Clovis.

 

I think that it's a mistake to identify any of the Thedosian countries or cultures too closely with real-world equivalents. It's a fictional setting, with fictional coloring. Elements of the storyline that bear strong similarity to real history are mixed and matched with entirely invented elements.

 

So yeah, Tevinter in the Dragon Age is supposed to be similar in some ways to the way Western European countries viewed the Byzantine Empire. The rule of the magisters and the slaveocracy, however - two incredibly important aspects of Tevinter's portrayal - have no analogy in Byzantine history. 

 

Oh, yes, Clovis too, the first barbarian king to convert to Orthodox Catholic Christianity. Arrianism was very popular among barbarians until then. That's also another parallelism with Drakon, since the little we know about the original Inquisition times stated that there was a lot of theological chaos after Andraste's death, and several cults to choose from.

 

I agree it's a mistake to try to impose real life nations onto Thedosian nations, but it's also true that creators don't work in a vacuum and that they are probably influenced by real world history. Knowing it can make us understand Thedas better.