My post was referring to chantry power.
WoT doesn't explicitly state they were barred from the clergy either, only that it took time for the Atlus to convert and begin joining in large number. The head of the Chantry was, after all, the Archon, even after Hessarian.
I see Redcliff being brought up quite a bit with Connor and Isolde as a reason to maintain the status quo (or continued crackdowns.) But doesn't that actually work against the argument. I mean what was the reason for Isolde hiding Connor's manifested magic ability? She didn't want the Templars to take her child away. (It's been awhile for DAO so maybe I'm misremembering.) Therefore wouldn't a modified system of more interaction that doesn't automatically severe family ties eliminate (reduce) that type of thing from occurring? Just saying.
Also can someone refresh my memory on the Uldred incident? I cannot recall his motivations. Was it lust for power or was he bitter due to his "imprisonment?"
Again I need to bring up the potential results of the current state of things with war/rebellion. When I think of war I think of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands dead. If you have a system that ultimately results in war what have you successfully accomplished? The Circle system exists to protect civilians from rampaging mages (and vice versa,) yet that system has manifested a war that will ultimately kill (or destroy the lives) of untold civilians. Any benefit you may have incurred by the system may have ultimately been negated by the end result.
I see Redcliff being brought up quite a bit with Connor and Isolde as a reason to maintain the status quo (or continued crackdowns.) But doesn't that actually work against the argument. I mean what was the reason for Isolde hiding Connor's manifested magic ability? She didn't want the Templars to take her child away. (It's been awhile for DAO so maybe I'm misremembering.) Therefore wouldn't a modified system of more interaction that doesn't automatically severe family ties eliminate (reduce) that type of thing from occurring? Just saying.
The gist of the Redcliffe incident was that a small, lone child did all that damage.
How and why are not really relevant given that they can differ. A similar scenario could have played in another place, with different circumstances, but same results.
An over-bearing mother may hesitate to give away her child even under a far more open system.
Both Isolde and Connor may have different reasons for did what they did, or different "triggers".
Would have Isolde given up Connor under different circumstances? Maybe. Maybe not.
Any containment system is a balance between security and freedom. You cannot increase one without decreasing the other
Again I need to bring up the potential results of the current state of things with war/rebellion. When I think of war I think of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands dead. If you have a system that ultimately results in war what have you successfully accomplished? The Circle system exists to protect civilians from rampaging mages (and vice versa,) yet that system has manifested a war that will ultimately kill (or destroy the lives) of untold civilians. Any benefit you may have incurred by the system may have ultimately been negated by the end result.
The mage-templar war is not an actual large war. Mages are a tiny minority and are fighting the templars. So the armies in question are both rather small, thus hundreds of thousands of dead are unlikely, especially given that this isn't a conventional war of land grabbing, hence why civilians are of no interest to any group.
B.t.w. - ANY system is doomed to fail eventually. Any restriction places on someone will eventually result in resistance to it. Such things are cyclical, like the seasons.
The Circle system has stood for longer than democracy existed in RL.
I'd say that a good track record.
I see Redcliff being brought up quite a bit with Connor and Isolde as a reason to maintain the status quo (or continued crackdowns.) But doesn't that actually work against the argument. I mean what was the reason for Isolde hiding Connor's manifested magic ability? She didn't want the Templars to take her child away. (It's been awhile for DAO so maybe I'm misremembering.) Therefore wouldn't a modified system of more interaction that doesn't automatically severe family ties eliminate (reduce) that type of thing from occurring? Just saying.
Also can someone refresh my memory on the Uldred incident? I cannot recall his motivations. Was it lust for power or was he bitter due to his "imprisonment?"
Again I need to bring up the potential results of the current state of things with war/rebellion. When I think of war I think of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands dead. If you have a system that ultimately results in war what have you successfully accomplished? The Circle system exists to protect civilians from rampaging mages (and vice versa,) yet that system has manifested a war that will ultimately kill (or destroy the lives) of untold civilians. Any benefit you may have incurred by the system may have ultimately been negated by the end result.
Circles always were bad system why because it never rly provided protection mages were escaping and turning into abomnations other mages were never found and did that same.Pretty much entire series shows us that every time when we see abomnation or other disaster caused by mages and that was a lot. Isolde was stupid and nothing more works od dumb peoples than painful consequences if that was in case perhaps that would be prevented connor pretty much shows what mage tend to cause and he was one of less dangerous examples.
Why we have rebelion? because system failed or divine let that rebelion go as well adrian who forced that rebelion and she lost until divine let mages escape and they started rebelion.So system was failure in terms of effectiveness but could be easily maintained if not divine and adrian...
B.t.w. - ANY system is doomed to fail eventually. Any restriction places on someone will eventually result in resistance to it. Such things are cyclical, like the seasons.
The Circle system has stood for longer than democracy existed in RL.
I'd say that a good track record.
I agree. Systems will fail eventually. Flexibility to adapt to the upcoming changes should be as important as a good base for the system.
I mean, if we're looking for the most long-lasting system in Thedas, the Tevinter Magocracy should be the best according just to that requirement, shouldn't it? Not only has it endured the double of the White Chantry system, but it has also had the opportunity to adopt many changes from outside, like a new religion and its own templars.
Some interesting responses. I realize much of this is speculative. A few keywords I picked up on. Conventional war-correct, this is unconventional warfare.
At this point, we have not seen this: the mage resistance movement in Kirwall was an unconventional one since the only avenue of resistance was for people hidden amongst the populace, but what little we've seen since then does not suggest the mages are trying to hide within population centers- or even trying to hide and avoid a conflict. They seem to be trying to stand and fight, and the Templars are moving as organized military forces.
Are mages WMD?
As an analogy, yes- though this refers more to the abominations, and is more on the scale of chemical (or early biological) warfare than nuclear.
How much is one mage worth in terms of destructive power vs avg soldier?
What's the measure of destructive power? Average soldiers can't do what Anders did in the Chantry with a ritual, for example.
If Israel and Iran have a nuclear exchange does that result in fewer casualties than if the entire Middle east goes to war?
Probably not.
For a scale of reference: a quick look at wiki puts the Arab-Israeli War conflict as having somewhere between 13000 and 26000 casualties (depending on the estimates for Arab civilian casualties attributed to the war). An upper end estimate of 26,000 over an entire conflict- and the Yom Kippur War's upper estimates we similar.
So two major regional conflicts was, to inflate them upwards to a nice round number, 50,000.
The atomic bombing of Nagasaki, with a single first generation and small nuclear device, was 60,000 to 80,000.
I wish we didn't have to be so negative, and talk about all the good mages can do... 
I wish we didn't have to be so negative, and talk about all the good mages can do...
there is little to add on topic what good mages can do because they can do a little what bad they can do is very wide topic on other hand 
Outside healing that is better on short-term there is little more good they can do and list of good things they did is even smaller pretty much in term of usefulness mages are destroyed by nuke that are their flaws.
Magic would actually have a pretty wide range of practical use that you maybe wouldn't think of. This is a society that has basically no development as far as machinery goes. There's a lot of things magic could pick up the slack on that machines do in our society.
Healing in itself is a massively important resource that they're basically wasting, though. Imagine how far behind our society their "doctors" are. What Anders did for the people of Dark Town was ultimately as much or more helpful than what we actually see from any other person or organization in the games, regardless what our thoughts are on his later decisions. That they've never considered a program where more freedoms are given to stable mages that lend their healing abilities to the world outside the circle is actually surprising to me, considering how many lives it could save.
Well, mages can command the elements. They can stop floods, repair floodgates, inspire growth and regeneration in dead forests. They can heal more people more quickly than any sort of relief aid group. They can DO more than any relief aid group. They can do so much, I mean... One day magic could power advanced technology! Magic can go a long way in either direction.
More reasons to rethink the current system. Locking them up and isolation seems like a massive waste of potential benefits.
I love when Morrigan says "Ah, so if we're useful we're not lynched. Good to know." 
Well, mages can command the elements. They can stop floods, repair floodgates, inspire growth and regeneration in dead forests. They can heal more people more quickly than any sort of relief aid group. They can DO more than any relief aid group. They can do so much, I mean... One day magic could power advanced technology! Magic can go a long way in either direction.
This is a good point. Disaster relief and agriculture are two fields they could definitely develop a stronger use for magic in.
I wish we didn't have to be so negative, and talk about all the good mages can do...
Risk assessments look at both the positives and negatives- the issue is that negatives can stack up a lot faster and stronger than the positives. It's hard to think of anything equivalent to death, for example: the most common balancing unit is other deaths. Even exalted concepts like freedom struggle to compete: fighting and dying to protect your own freedom is noble, but forcing other people to fight and die for the freedoms they don't value like you think they should care about is closer to insanity.
Saving lives through healing is the closest thing to a pure benevolent good mages can offer that approaches equalizing deaths. But that isn't something incompatible with the current system with reforms, nor is it something that would be guaranteed by an abolition of the system. If you wanted to maximize healing, making an institution of it would be far more reliable and effective than hoping mages do it for altruistic or self-interested reasons.
More reasons to rethink the current system. Locking them up and isolation seems like a massive waste of potential benefits.
I think David Gaider had the best post on this.
It's true. Mages, allowed to experiment freely, would no doubt introduce superior means of magical communication, travel, item enchantment, healing, mind control, mass destruction and magical-fade-portals-to-take-over-heaven. What could possibly go wrong?
Ah but benefitial magic comes with its own set of problems. Lillian talked about magic powering technology and while that sounds good on paper, one must also wonder where that would leave people incapable of using magic which is the massive majority of the population; if magic controls the infrastructure, then the most coveted and useful positions in society become available only to mages.
Ultimately, society is highly competitive and magic is a tremendous tool in this regard which means that it would only be a matter of time until power, whether it be political or economical, begins to graduably and inexorably shift to the hands of mages. And once they are an elite not only will non-mages live at their mercy but it will be nearly impossible to dislodge them; it would probably be ever hard than it would be in nowadays world since the infrastructure of Thedas would, by then, rely almost entirely on magic.
It's true. Mages, allowed to experiment freely, would no doubt introduce superior means of magical communication, travel, item enchantment, healing, mind control, mass destruction and magical-fade-portals-to-take-over-heaven. What could possibly go wrong
Nothing.
I think that peoples overestimate magic in da universe in that universe magic mean little in practice trained warrior can crush mage with little effort in da universe. there is no dealing with floods by mages.Mages in practice are guys that can shoot very weak version of flamethrower from their hands and it takes time to do that or have limited healing comparing to other universes because if wound is fatal mage can't cure that and modern medicine is a way better on long-term than da healing magic not mention that in every aspect technology destroys magic that currently stop technological advancement in thedas.
so ultimately we have little that mages can offer to help and huge damage they can and will cause...
I think that peoples overestimate magic in da universe in that universe magic mean little in practice trained warrior can crush mage with little effort in da universe. there is no dealing with floods by mages.Mages in practice are guys that can shoot very weak version of flamethrower from their hands and it takes time to do that or have limited healing comparing to other universes because if wound is fatal mage can't cure that and modern medicine is a way better on long-term than da healing magic not mention that in every aspect technology destroys magic that currently stop technological advancement in thedas.
so ultimately we have little that mages can offer to help and huge damage they can and will cause...
That's just game mechanics. The whole point of the "fear" of magic is that it's meant to be extremely powerful and dangerous. If magic was weak and useless, there wouldn't even be a problem as far as the lore goes.
Its true. same thing can be said for technological advancement
Its true. same thing can be said for technological advancement
Technology is only usable by the 1%?
That's just game mechanics. The whole point of the "fear" of magic is that it's meant to be extremely powerful and dangerous. If magic was weak and useless, there wouldn't even be a problem as far as the lore goes.
game mechanic? well when templars crushed mages in da 2 or in asunder they didn't show their ultimate power they were just weak guys with weak powers. Magic in thedas is weak of course if we don't count blood magic and abomnations.There is no wonder that mages were prisoners for almost 1000 years if they are so weak. We hard only how magic is powerful yet it is only from some characters and thats theory in practice they never showed that power they claim to have...
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