LOL I know right? At least in DA2 its clearly indicated in spec description that Hawke gets enough Lyrium from smugglers to to enable him/her to use Templar abilities.
Alistair: "Ohhhhh Yeah....The good stuff" *snorting a packet of Lyrium dust*
Warden: "What was that?"
Alistair: "Oh nothing..."
Warden: "....Did you just random acquire Lyrium from somewhere?"
Alistair: ."..No?"
Warden: "..."
Alistair: "Ohhhhh Yeah....The good stuff" *snorting a packet of Lyrium dust*
Warden: "What was that?"
Alistair: "Oh nothing..."
Warden: "....Did you just random acquire Lyrium from somewhere?"
Alistair: ."..No?"
Warden: "..."
This is going to become a problem if he's king 
To my knowledge, Holy Smite has never been used outside of gameplay; I think the only templar power that ever has was Silence, which Meredith used on that one Saarebas.
Lambert and several templars used magic canceling powers in Asunder. Plus, don't you think they would have used holy smite in that situation if it had been an option.
But honestly the holy smite in DAO would be lore breaking if it ever made it to lore. Because it creates magic out of nothingness and that's not what Templars do. The lore clearly states only those with especial connection to the fade aka mages can do such a thing and we hear over and over that a Templar is a mere solider when fighting a none-mage. Taking these into consideration its very likely that holy smite existed to balance the Templar spec because without it its the most useless spec in the game.
Templars only have magic canceling powers and that's how it should be.
But honestly the holy smite in DAO would be lore breaking if it ever made it to lore. Because it creates magic out of nothingness and that's not what Templars do. The lore clearly states only those with especial connection to the fade aka mages can do such a thing and we hear over and over that a Templar is a mere solider when fighting a none-mage. Taking these into consideration its very likely that holy smite existed to balance the Templar spec because without it its the most useless spec in the game.
Templars only have magic canceling powers and that's how it should be.
This merely seems like you are underrating the mental concentration coupled with Lyrium endowed that Templars possess.
Maybe Holy Smite would need be altered by some consideration before making it into the Lore, but it isn't anymore lore breaking then Alistair possessing the abilities of as templar when he was dry for at least half a year.
This merely seems like you are underrating the mental concentration coupled with Lyrium endowed that Templars possess.
Maybe Holy Smite would need be altered by some consideration before making it into the Lore, but it isn't anymore lore breaking then Alistair possessing the abilities of as templar when he was dry for at least half a year.
That is another matter. Magic cancelling abilities are quite fitting to have as a Templar, Gaider himself mentioned the only reason Alistair had his powers for so long was to not break the gameplay, read the link I just posted. Initially they wanted to include lyrium addiction to the game but later scrapped it but Alistair kept his powers. But a ranged magic ability that shapes and reforms reality is very lore breaking. You NEED the connection to the fade to do that and only mages have that connection.
I think even the red Templars cannot do that. The way I see it they can pulse the red lyrium but cannot cast a fireball for example or create a spirit magic out of nowhere.
What Meredith did to that Saarebas and what we read in asunder where Templars cancel and interrupt magic is very real however.
The lyrium tattoos allow Fenris to become formless. Isn't that basically the same thing? How do they work differently? I mean, obviously the process is more involved than ingestion alone, but it seems to have established some level of fade connection without actually being a mage.
The lyrium tattoos allow Fenris to become formless. Isn't that basically the same thing? How do they work differently? I mean, obviously the process is more involved than ingestion alone, but it seems to have established some level of fade connection without actually being a mage.
That's not a fade connection. Lyrium itself can become formless therefore so can Fenris. I bet his head doesn't become formless, at least not as good as other parts of body.
His abilities are limited to his body only because the lyrium is there. He cannot influence anything magically some distance away from himself because he is not a mage. That should apply to Templars as well who happen to have much less lyrium than Fenris.
But honestly the holy smite in DAO would be lore breaking if it ever made it to lore. Because it creates magic out of nothingness and that's not what Templars do. The lore clearly states only those with especial connection to the fade aka mages can do such a thing and we hear over and over that a Templar is a mere solider when fighting a none-mage. Taking these into consideration its very likely that holy smite existed to balance the Templar spec because without it its the most useless spec in the game.
Templars only have magic canceling powers and that's how it should be.
That was kind of my point. I don't think they have such powers as they would have been used when going up against a room full of 1st enchanters
This merely seems like you are underrating the mental concentration coupled with Lyrium endowed that Templars possess.
Maybe Holy Smite would need be altered by some consideration before making it into the Lore, but it isn't anymore lore breaking then Alistair possessing the abilities of as templar when he was dry for at least half a year.
The lore is pretty clear, the templars have mage cancelling powers, not super powers. Don't you think Lambert would have used Holy Smite against Rhys and his shield if he had such and option? As you have said many times, the lore trumps gameplay. Holy smite was obviously an attempt to make the Templar more capable in game.
The lore is pretty clear, the templars have mage cancelling powers, not super powers. Don't you think Lambert would have used Holy Smite against Rhys and his shield if he had such and option? As you have said many times, the lore trumps gameplay. Holy smite was obviously an attempt to make the Templar more capable in game.
I have said it before, and i indicate that the Lore may be indeed correct on this however, I'd also point out there hasn't been anything directly said against this via the Lore. So I'd be hesitant to say it was merely an game balancing attempt when we really haven't had much coverage over the ability and the process it goes through, if a Dev ever said as much?
Fine, I'll accept it but i will also point out that Lyrium has done many things within Thedas that were considered "lore" breaking until it was pointed out how it was accomplished.
Hm...
1. How do you solve the issue of mages turning into abominations or abusing blood magic?
2. How will you detect it if mages are spread around everywhere?
3. How would any force respond in time?
4. What will you do when a mage turns abomination and slaughters an entire village and moves on before anyone can respond?
5. What will you do when a mage enthralls a village? Or usurps the local economy?
6. What will you do if people start demanding blood and form lynch mobs?
My recommendation on page 3 offers a reasonable compromise if you haven't seen it then I recommend browsing it and letting me know what you think. If your following it, I'll also answer your questions to how they'd work with my answer:
1. Alot of anti-mage people seem to be under the impression that abominations are common, but they aren't. In lore and gameplay we get abominations out of 3 different ways: a: The mage is fleeing and is cornered into a life or death situation (usually with templars) and uses it as a last resort (By far the most common) b. The mage is poorly trained or not trained at all (as in Conner and Merideth's sister) and therefore don't have the discipline to resist c. Someone who is already an abomination forces it on them. (As is what happened in the Fereldan Circle)
That's it, If you properly train the mages, show common decency, but remain vigilant against the bad apples then you've solved at least 95% of the problem.
2. Do you mean how do they find mage's in general or how do they find rouge mages? For the first, the same way they always have: someone uses magic and it's reported, I figure parents would be a lot more likely to give up their children also if the kids aren't as likely to be locked up forever. For the second: like they said: phylacteries- using the mages blood to track them down.
3. Respond to what? A mage going rogue? Going insane? Should they escape from the Circle, it's a simple matter of tracking them back down with their phylacteries, in the unlikely case of one of the free mages going crazy I suggested Templar outposts, if these outposts have Sendings (used in Asunder) they can communicate with each other and track the rogue down relatively easily.
4. Again...why do you think the mage will suddenly just turn into an abomination? The only really I could see that happening is if the village got their mob on and decided to roast the poor fellow and proper training and education (both to the masses and mage) could reduce this likelyhood even further.
5. For some reason you seem to be under the mistaken impression that all mages have easy access to blood mage and a complete lack of morals. Blood magic seemed fairly common in Kirkwall, but Kirkwall was a fairly bloody city that everything pointed to there being something supernaturally wrong with it. (source: Legacy DLC and the codex entries of the Band of Three) Everywhere else, blood magic was quite a bit less common. (In the first game the only way to learn it was from a demon). In case it does happen, Templar Outposts should be able to detect this kind of thing and counter it within a reasonable time frame and if a mage does rise to some form of leadership legitimately it wouldn't necessarily mean a "new Tevinter Imperium". That kind of thing was built over thousand of years and founded by blood mages under the guidance of the Old Gods. It didn't change after converting to Andraste because they'd had thousands of years to build up the traditions of ruling and using people for blood magic, and the mage's who did try to change it either could never rise in rank or got killed once they got too change happy(for example there was one Archon who tried to abolish slavery, only to be assassinated by his underlings and replaced)
6. Education is the only way to prevent those kinds of things. The Chantry will have to work at getting rid of the bias that's been spread around, but it'll take time. One thing that they'll likely have going for them is that this war might wipe out the bulk of the fanatics on both sides of the fence leaving some more moderate being leading both sides.
Here is my old proposal from the MAge Templar thread:
Mages are a dangerous subgroup of the population who does not deserve the right of self government. If you are a mage you have a duty to the greater population not to abuse the gift Andraste bestowed on you. So therefore you must be trained at a tower until you are no longer an apprentice after that, you have to return to the tower twice a year for conclaves with other mages. Families are more than welcome to visit apprentice and such. The harrowing and tranquility when necessary will continue.
The templar order will be rebuilt with an emphasis on protecting and watching over the mages. Attrocities and abuses will not be tolerated and will be dealt with severly. Including tranquility for extreme offenders ie the same standard used for apprentices, if they can't prevent themselves from abusing mages they will be tranquiled. The seekers will resume their position of watching the templars and will not have duties relating to mages.
Each circle will be overseen by a triumvirate of of Knight Commander, 1st Enchanter, and a Grey Warden. Their decisions will be final in settling mage/templar disputes. In exchange for this service Grey Wardens will be allowed to recruit 1 mage a year who has passed their harrowing to the Wardens(Which is a significant increase from currently being allowed to only have 1 mage from each circle at a time).
Circles will still operate under the Chantry and by Andraste grace will continue to flourish.
Grey Wardens can already take mages whenever they want, so it doesn't sound like a comparatively good deal for them.
Grey Wardens should not be involved in the Circle. When the blights are finished, so are the grey wardens. Also, they're job is the darkspawn, not policing or managing magic.
What I support is the three group system. Enchanters, Templars, Seekers. Enchanters are mages who decide to involve themselves more in the governing of the Circles. Templars enforce the rules of the Circles while protecting mages and hunting criminal mages. Seekers are recruited from Templars and Enchanters, they are to be nominated by their peer group (Templars nominate Templar, enchanters nominate enchanter) and approved by the senior members of the other group (senior Templars approve mage nominee, senior enchanters approve Templar nominee). Seekers lose all ranks/titles/powers/whatever from previous post, no longer considered Templar or Enchanter, and they oversee the entire Circle operation. So... Enchanters are sort of legislature branch, Templars executive and Seekers judicial... sort of...
So, mundanes can join the Circle, but instead of training as a mage, get trained as a Templar. Circle identity no longer mage only; more like the Grey Wardens, a group with a specific purpose that can recruit from many sources, but the focus is the managing and policing of magic in Thedas. Allowing mages to hunt rogue mages and mundanes still being a large part in the Circle system.
Here is my old proposal from the MAge Templar thread:
Mages are a dangerous subgroup of the population who does not deserve the right of self government. If you are a mage you have a duty to the greater population not to abuse the gift Andraste bestowed on you. So therefore you must be trained at a tower until you are no longer an apprentice after that, you have to return to the tower twice a year for conclaves with other mages. Families are more than welcome to visit apprentice and such. The harrowing and tranquility when necessary will continue.
The templar order will be rebuilt with an emphasis on protecting and watching over the mages. Attrocities and abuses will not be tolerated and will be dealt with severly. Including tranquility for extreme offenders ie the same standard used for apprentices, if they can't prevent themselves from abusing mages they will be tranquiled. The seekers will resume their position of watching the templars and will not have duties relating to mages.
Each circle will be overseen by a triumvirate of of Knight Commander, 1st Enchanter, and a Grey Warden. Their decisions will be final in settling mage/templar disputes. In exchange for this service Grey Wardens will be allowed to recruit 1 mage a year who has passed their harrowing to the Wardens(Which is a significant increase from currently being allowed to only have 1 mage from each circle at a time).
Circles will still operate under the Chantry and by Andraste grace will continue to flourish.
Interesting proposal. Just take out the Wardens (it's not their field, after all) and put the Inquisition instead.
This is going to become a problem if he's king
King Alistair: "We are marching on Orzammar!"
Random Fereldan General: "What? Why?!"
KA: "Err...Because they have insulted our dogs! .... And stopped selling me lyrium"
RG: "To war!"
King Alistair: "We are marching on Orzammar!"
Random Fereldan General: "What? Why?!"
KA: "Err...Because they have insulted our dogs! .... And stopped selling me lyrium"
RG: "To war!"
Those dwarven savages! They insulted their dogs!
Now that I think about it, can lyrium addiction be cured?
Now that I think about it, can lyrium addiction be cured?
There's been no mention of a cure in game. If it can it would have to be a mystical cure in nature or it would have to be really early in the addiction period, from what we hear in game withdrawal leads to insanity or death.
There's been no mention of a cure in game. If it can it would have to be a mystical cure in nature or it would have to be really early in the addiction period, from what we hear in game withdrawal leads to insanity or death.
Samson was sane enough to be coherent in his conversations with the PC, Years after ceasing to be a Templar, although he continued his usage of Lyrium off and on as a habit.
Looked more to me like it wasn't so much an on and off as a habit as when he can scrap together enough money begging to buy some from the black market.The addiction's left him as a shell of the man he used to be. Though I admit he seems by far in the best shape of those in Lyrium withdraw.
Looked more to me like it wasn't so much an on and off as a habit as when he can scrap together enough money begging to buy some from the black market.The addiction's left him as a shell of the man he used to be. Though I admit he seems by far in the best shape of those in Lyrium withdraw.
Aka an off and on habit, Lyrium dust while relatively cheap is still an expensive component to acquire for a beggar.
He probably went months with out it at a time.
Grey Wardens can already take mages whenever they want, so it doesn't sound like a comparatively good deal for them.
No, they can currently only have one mage from each circle according to the wiki.
Like I said it is an old idea. You could sub in inquisition. Seekers would work if they do their jib.
We don't yet know if they were occupied with something else, all we really know is that the Seekers came to Kirkwall fairly late in the story and not for the apparent abuses occurring there, if they failed or no i wouldn't say until it was stated they were asleep at the wheel, if they were busy looking into other things in other circles or policing for apostates then they were doing their jobs.
You figure the grand cleric would write the Divine about the situation at the very least.
No, they can currently only have one mage from each circle according to the wiki.
Like I said it is an old idea. You could sub in inquisition. Seekers would work if they do their jib.
The wiki says they "traditionally" take one, but the right of conscription allows them to take anyone they want. They don't really have a pressing need to keep an especially massive amount of numbers between blights and people are generally more understanding of the use during blights. I'm not sure it's implied they really want more than one that badly. They also take apostate mages into the wardens.
I don't think Seekers or the Inquisition would have the same effect, if subbed, because they're still under the Chantry. The thing that appealed about wardens, at least to me, was that they offered an outside perspective to the mage/templar conflicts.
I'm not really convinced with leaving the Chantry primarily in control of mages at all, though.
We don't yet know if they were occupied with something else, all we really know is that the Seekers came to Kirkwall fairly late in the story and not for the apparent abuses occurring there, if they failed or no i wouldn't say until it was stated they were asleep at the wheel, if they were busy looking into other things in other circles or policing for apostates then they were doing their jobs.
You figure the grand cleric would write the Divine about the situation at the very least.
According to Lelianna, the "whole world" was watching Kirkwall. And it looks like watching is all they did.
Good jerb everybody.
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