There's been no mention of a cure in game. If it can it would have to be a mystical cure in nature or it would have to be really early in the addiction period, from what we hear in game withdrawal leads to insanity or death.
Cure?
As with all addiction, time.
Stop taking drugs, and after a hellish withdrawal period, you should stabilise.
1. Alot of anti-mage people seem to be under the impression that abominations are common, but they aren't. In lore and gameplay we get abominations out of 3 different ways: a: The mage is fleeing and is cornered into a life or death situation (usually with templars) and uses it as a last resort (By far the most common) b. The mage is poorly trained or not trained at all (as in Conner and Merideth's sister) and therefore don't have the discipline to resist c. Someone who is already an abomination forces it on them. (As is what happened in the Fereldan Circle)
That's it, If you properly train the mages, show common decency, but remain vigilant against the bad apples then you've solved at least 95% of the problem.
2. Do you mean how do they find mage's in general or how do they find rouge mages? For the first, the same way they always have: someone uses magic and it's reported.
3. Respond to what? A mage going rogue? Going insane? Should they escape from the Circle, it's a simple matter of tracking them back down with their phylacteries, in the unlikely case of one of the free mages going crazy I suggested Templar outposts, if these outposts have Sendings (used in Asunder) they can communicate with each other and track the rogue down relatively easily.
4. Again...why do you think the mage will suddenly just turn into an abomination? The only really I could see that happening is if the village got their mob on and decided to roast the poor fellow and proper training and education (both to the masses and mage) could reduce this likelyhood even further.
5. For some reason you seem to be under the mistaken impression that all mages have easy access to blood mage and a complete lack of morals. (In the first game the only way to learn it was from a demon).
1) Naive. Mages turn to abominations for all sorts of reasons.
Despair and desire come with life, and no amount of education - even assuming it's perfect - will change that.
I don't know where you got the 95% figure, but it's laughable.
2) And by the time the report comes (IF the report comes at all...the mage in question could easily leave no witnesses or use blood magic to convince the victim to stay quiet) the mage is in another country
3) Only the circles have sending stones.
With travel between towns taking days/weeks, trying to hunt down or police mages spread over a large area is a logistical nightmare.
4) Again the silly notion that mages only become abominations if someone attacks/forces them. That notion is proved wrong.
Mages can fall to either forced possession from a demon or they can be tricked to give in for various reasons. Connor only wanted to make his mother happy, there was no angry mob after him. Uldred, an educated mage, fell victim to his pride.
5) Actually, they do. Any mage can learn blood magic from demons, and demons are willing to teach it. Mages can go actively looking for demon teachers every time they dream if they so want.
In case it does happen, Templar Outposts should be able to detect this kind of thing and counter it within a reasonable time frame and if a mage does rise to some form of leadership legitimately it wouldn't necessarily mean a "new Tevinter Imperium".
You didn't explain how they would detect it or counter it.
6. Education is the only way to prevent those kinds of things. The Chantry will have to work at getting rid of the bias that's been spread around, but it'll take time. One thing that they'll likely have going for them is that this war might wipe out the bulk of the fanatics on both sides of the fence leaving some more moderate being leading both sides.
Biggest problem in your reply is right here.
No amount of education will change anything.
It's a matter of survival and self-perservation, and bias is natural, not some Chantry dogma.
Holy smite! I go away for a day and I've got 4 pages to sift through. Looks like some good ideas being floated.
Someone in their pessimism mentioned Harry Potter-like schools not working, but I don't think that's what any of us had in mind. In fact I would hate the idea of sticking all the gifted kids in one centralized region. Mages have to live in this world so they need to interact with common folk as well as fellow mages. I think isolationism/segregation are not the solution...we already have a system that separates mages from the rest of society...and it doesn't work. Those situations tend to breed elitist attitudes (e.g. Tarohne) or mages with low self images.
I was thinking smaller schools, more local in nature where parental support is part of the equation.
It's so sad to see Kaili or whatever that girl's name was. Any time I even think about the whole Circle situation, her face just pops up... It's horrible how she hates herself, just because she's a mage. It makes me so mad. 
Cure?
As with all addiction, time.
Stop taking drugs, and after a hellish withdrawal period, you should stabilise.
Of course. But someone addicted for a long time might have very big problems such as the Templar in front of the chantry in Denerim. He forgets everything once every 10 seconds.
Lillian: Is that someone from one of the books?
Lillian: Is that someone from one of the books?
No, it's a girl you meet in Dragon Age: Origins. If you're a mage, she's the one praying in the chantry room. If you're not a mage, then you'll find her in the room with Wynne. She calls the Templrs the Maker's flaming sword of mercy, or something.
Forgot about her. She'd fit into the poor self-image category, yes?
Yup, it's just she's the only one I remember from the games.
Couple of things I'd like opinions on:
So what if Sandal's prophecy comes true and we find in DA:I that everyone has magical capabilities? Or that people who happened to be near a tear were exposed to a leak of some kind? How would any organisation respond to what could be the resulting chaos of people being horrified at what had happened to them (suicide/mercy killings) to revelling in a new unknown ability. I am not saying veil tear = zap your a magister, but it it would be overwhelming to many to say the least.
I would like to know what people think about the effectiveness of Fenris' tattoos, the process was horribly painful and he said he lost his memory during it, an expensive nasty procedure. Would that mean that if all Templars under went a similar procedure upon taking their vows, would that negate the need for lyrium intake - all mind wiping possibilities aside, does that sound like the reversal to the RoT? I don't mean cure the RoT, but be the Templar equivalent. They would still have to have some affinity with magic anyway, which might also occur with exposure to the tears in DA:I .
Couple of things I'd like opinions on:
So what if Sandal's prophecy comes true and we find in DA:I that everyone has magical capabilities? Or that people who happened to be near a tear were exposed to a leak of some kind? How would any organisation respond to what could be the resulting chaos of people being horrified at what had happened to them (suicide/mercy killings) to revelling in a new unknown ability. I am not saying veil tear = zap your a magister, but it it would be overwhelming to many to say the least.
I would like to know what people think about the effectiveness of Fenris' tattoos, the process was horribly painful and he said he lost his memory during it, an expensive nasty procedure. Would that mean that if all Templars under went a similar procedure upon taking their vows, would that negate the need for lyrium intake - all mind wiping possibilities aside, does that sound like the reversal to the RoT? I don't mean cure the RoT, but be the Templar equivalent. They would still have to have some affinity with magic anyway, which might also occur with exposure to the tears in DA:I .
1. I... Don't know about everyone getting magic during DA:I... If everything goes back to the way it was, then perhaps elves could all get magic? I don't know... It's very ominous and open to interpretation. But hey, if it did happen... Then I have no idea. It would probably tear the circles and the world apart? If everything went back to the way it was, then perhaps Tevinter dominates everything with superior magical armies? No clue on this part, really.
2. Also, from what I remember, Templars are chosen for their devotion to the Maker... There's a chance with that memory wipe that the Templars would be... Unruly, to say the least. Also, I don't know if Fenris' tattoos could be modified to be made for the use of templar abilities. Even if they were, then there's the slightest chance that it could be used for mage uprisings/powering mages like mana batteries. Apart from that, it's very expensive, and this would mean less templars. Less templars means that mages have less people to kill. So, I doubt they'd be used extensively for the Templar Order.
3. It is very interesting to consider what the tears in the Veil will do to areas surrounding it. There might be dangerous radiation, or atleast mass possessions of surrounding communities.
@ Lillian, thanks, I was just having a random thought moment.
It's difficult to put any reformation into a workable idea, without sounding wishy washy. I like the suggestion that Daerog and Misticsan had about the Enchanter/Templar/Seeker triumvirate. Perhaps the Inquisition could over see it, seeing as the first Inquisition as made up of Templars. Would others need to be involved too? Nobles have no say regarding Templars, but they are landowners nonetheless and any restoration or relocation of mages would be done on their land and not just confined to Circles. I can't say I was impressed by Anora's don't hold your breath type response to a circle boon, at least Alistair had a sympathetic view. How much of a part would the Monarchy play in any of this would depend on who was on the throne I suppose. Would this Triumvirate have a say in a landsmeet for instance?
It's very hard to come up with a reformation that's rational, I have to admit... At least, under these conditions... If one day, more people were magical, or had a stronger connection to the fade, some real ethical reformation would be pretty possible.
Cure?
As with all addiction, time.
Stop taking drugs, and after a hellish withdrawal period, you should stabilise.
Doesnt work like that. Like many people you do not understand the difference between a mental addiction and physical one . The templars addiction is physical they can no longer function without this substance. Not giving the templar lyrium likely results him going into shock and die . Such addictions need strict supervision and large amount of medical knowledge . Im sorry but the templars have neither. depriving templar of his lyrium is a death sentence
Holy smite! I go away for a day and I've got 4 pages to sift through. Looks like some good ideas being floated.
Someone in their pessimism mentioned Harry Potter-like schools not working, but I don't think that's what any of us had in mind. In fact I would hate the idea of sticking all the gifted kids in one centralized region. Mages have to live in this world so they need to interact with common folk as well as fellow mages. I think isolationism/segregation are not the solution...we already have a system that separates mages from the rest of society...and it doesn't work. Those situations tend to breed elitist attitudes (e.g. Tarohne) or mages with low self images.
I was thinking smaller schools, more local in nature where parental support is part of the equation.
That is worse.... for everyone.
Initially better for mages, but mages being spread out makes policing and oversight 100 times more impractical and difficult. Which in turn will lead to mages doing stuff that will anger the populace, which in turn will lead to tragedy and violence.
And you'll end up with the Circle system again.
By Lillian:It's so sad to see Kaili or whatever that girl's name was. Any time I even think about the whole Circle situation, her face just pops up... It's horrible how she hates herself, just because she's a mage. It makes me so mad.
You'll find self-hating people all over the world.
It's sad, but I don't see how the Circle is to blame.
Doesnt work like that. Like many people you do not understand the difference between a mental addiction and physical one . The templars addiction is physical they can no longer function without this substance. Not giving the templar lyrium likely results him going into shock and die . Such addictions need strict supervision and large amount of medical knowledge . Im sorry but the templars have neither. depriving templar of his lyrium is a death sentence
Sez who?
Provide proof of your assertion that lyrium addiction is some super-addiction that cannot be cured and is a death sentence.
I find that highly unlikely, given that templars can retire or leave the order.
And drug addiction is physical.
Well... She was taken from birth, put up in a tower, locked away with a bunch of other Rapunzels, watched by fully-armed men ready to kill you. On top of all that, she was sorta told she was a danger to everyone by the dominant religion, simply because of how she was born... But generally, society is more or less to blame for negative self-image.
Well... She was taken from birth, put up in a tower, locked away with a bunch of other Rapunzels, watched by fully-armed men ready to kill you. On top of all that, she was sorta told she was a danger to everyone by the dominant religion, simply because of how she was born... But generally, society is more or less to blame for negative self-image.
If that was the case than most mages would end up like that. Yet they don't.
You can't always blame others for everything.
The Circle may take you away from one family, but they give you another.
Mages ARE a danger to everyone, so no one was telling her a lie, and religion has nothing to do with it. Qunari don't follow a religion and they think mages are dangerous. Anyone with 2 brain cells thinks so.
For some reason and at some point she got hung up on the negatives. Maybe she's just a pessimist or a depressive person. We'll never know.
Sez who?
Provide proof of your assertion that lyrium addiction is some super-addiction that cannot be cured and is a death sentence.
I find that highly unlikely, given that templars can retire or leave the order.
And drug addiction is physical.
Samson was proof enough of that in my eye.
He still craved it but he likely didn't have the means to acquire it all that often.
I think the Templar order it self inflates the issues of Lyrium withdrawal to keep their people in check personally.
If that was the case than most mages would end up like that. Yet they don't.
You can't always blame others for everything.
The Circle may take you away from one family, but they give you another.
Mages ARE a danger to everyone, so no one was telling her a lie, and religion has nothing to do with it. Qunari don't follow a religion and they think mages are dangerous. Anyone with 2 brain cells thinks so.
For some reason and at some point she got hung up on the negatives. Maybe she's just a pessimist or a depressive person. We'll never know.
Well, I wasn't saying that she was wrong in her beliefs about magic, and I wasn't saying that every person under these conditions would feel like this. It's just that societal pressures are the foundations of self-image. If these oppressive values weren't exactly surrounding her, then I doubt she would feel this way. A person who's never subjected to criticism on their appearance and/or the affirmation of what beauty is would never think they're ugly. She would never think of herself as a rightfully caged monster if she wasn't treated like one.
emmm. here is the thing.
Lore of DA games, face us against three walls:
1) Mages are dangerous.
2) Templars are corrupted.
3) Church is a massive indoctrination machine.
This order of things is very old, and as we can see it - it's not working. So on basis of that you can't provide any solution that would do well with both parties. So i would destroy the Old Order, and this war on our hands is a perfect opportunity to do that. Chance to build a new society on ruins of old is just too good to resist.
So in general if you are familiar with The Internationale - you know what i mean. That's a general idea.
However. In late BW games we, in most cases, only have two options: to side with group A and kill group B. Which is not really much of a choice if you ask me. Also such choices have no real impact on your playthrough. Yes you can see aftermath of your choices at the end of the game, but hey i am not around to see it and feel it. So i don't really see a big difference between siding with Mages or Templars, or saving Geth and/or Quarians. You could see results of your choices in DAO however, and at the last battle you can summon different troops and at the end of the game you can see the very same aftermath summary. Which is win-win if you ask me. Later BW games and "choices that matters" makes me believe that these are not choices at all and they do not matter at all. So that's some kind of farce with the choices.
But i really hope we will not face "choose A or B situations". It would be nice to have also C and maybe D as well. And to see a result of these choices by actually playing through it. But we will see i guess. It can't be worse than DA2 or ME3 from a perspective of choices and impacts of these choices on a gameplay.
I said it in another topic, but it bears saying here:
Templars aren't just standing around watching for mages to start eyeing sharp things and whisper to deep-voiced shadows. They're also there to keep them from burning down barns and exploding things when they get upset. They don't take mages from their families because they're evil meany heads, they take them because Muggles don't know how to deal with magic children. They scoop them up and take them to Hogwarts to keep them safe. So they can learn to keep themselves safe. If it was all about locking them up in Ivory towers and never letting them out, we couldn't have Wynne or Fiona. Vivienne couldn't be a court mage and what's his face from The Stolen Throne couldn't have run around with free rein. They wouldn't make exceptions for Grey Warden mages. They wouldn't make exceptions for Dalish mages.
THAT is supposed to be their primary duty. To keep the mages SAFE until their Harrowing and they can keep themselves safe. The only mages that aren't allowed to leave are the ones that can't keep from blowing things up whenever they get outside the Circle... like Anders and his pyromania BEFORE all the Justice stuff. I am pretty sure if he had asked permission to leave like Wynne did, he wouldn't been allowed. But when the First Enchanter and not the Templar Knight Commander is saying you're a reckless handful, you can't really blame them for going after Anders every time he slipped the noose. Considering that he reveled in hurting his pursuers, you can't blame them for punishing him when they get him back.
I said it in another topic, but it bears saying here:
Templars aren't just standing around watching for mages to start eyeing sharp things and whisper to deep-voiced shadows. They're also there to keep them from burning down barns and exploding things when they get upset. They don't take mages from their families because they're evil meany heads, they take them because Muggles don't know how to deal with magic children. They scoop them up and take them to Hogwarts to keep them safe. So they can learn to keep themselves safe. If it was all about locking them up in Ivory towers and never letting them out, we couldn't have Wynne or Fiona. Vivienne couldn't be a court mage and what's his face from The Stolen Throne couldn't have run around with free rein. They wouldn't make exceptions for Grey Warden mages. They wouldn't make exceptions for Dalish mages.
THAT is supposed to be their primary duty. To keep the mages SAFE until their Harrowing and they can keep themselves safe. The only mages that aren't allowed to leave are the ones that can't keep from blowing things up whenever they get outside the Circle... like Anders and his pyromania BEFORE all the Justice stuff. I am pretty sure if he had asked permission to leave like Wynne did, he wouldn't been allowed. But when the First Enchanter and not the Templar Knight Commander is saying you're a reckless handful, you can't really blame them for going after Anders every time he slipped the noose. Considering that he reveled in hurting his pursuers, you can't blame them for punishing him when they get him back.
Only mages with a rank in circle can ask to leave. And even then it has to be accepted.
Wynne had a rank, she was senior enchanter, she would be first enchanter after Irving.
So no, not all mages can leave. A selected few can ask to leave.
Only mages with a rank in circle can ask to leave. And even then it has to be accepted.
Wynne had a rank, she was senior enchanter, she would be first enchanter after Irving.
So no, not all mages can leave. A selected few can ask to leave.
Exception to the rules have to be special cases.
Same for all walks of life in Thedas, you think any commoner can pick a sword and distinguish themselves before a lord and be knighted?
You think any random casteless can become a Paragon?
You think any berry picking elf can warrant the skillset to escape the alienage?
1) Naive. Mages turn to abominations for all sorts of reasons.
Despair and desire come with life, and no amount of education - even assuming it's perfect - will change that.
I don't know where you got the 95% figure, but it's laughable.
2) And by the time the report comes (IF the report comes at all...the mage in question could easily leave no witnesses or use blood magic to convince the victim to stay quiet) the mage is in another country
3) Only the circles have sending stones.
With travel between towns taking days/weeks, trying to hunt down or police mages spread over a large area is a logistical nightmare.
4) Again the silly notion that mages only become abominations if someone attacks/forces them. That notion is proved wrong.
Mages can fall to either forced possession from a demon or they can be tricked to give in for various reasons. Connor only wanted to make his mother happy, there was no angry mob after him. Uldred, an educated mage, fell victim to his pride.
5) Actually, they do. Any mage can learn blood magic from demons, and demons are willing to teach it. Mages can go actively looking for demon teachers every time they dream if they so want.
You didn't explain how they would detect it or counter it.
Biggest problem in your reply is right here.
No amount of education will change anything.
It's a matter of survival and self-perservation, and bias is natural, not some Chantry dogma.
1) Really? The lore and wiki seems to disagree with you: http://dragonage.wik...iki/Abomination
My 95% comes from if you remove the majority of reasons a person becomes an abomination, then all that's left is that small percentage of the uncontrollable variety.
2) My first example was mostly for young children who are first gaining their magic, not apostates. Again my point is that you get less people fleeing and hiding if you're not locking them up and throwing away the key.
3)My point is that sending stones exist and therefore could be placed in Templar Outposts, coupled with conventional communications it would allow fairly good coordination for locating the maleficarum.
4) "that notion is proved wrong" where? The two examples you put of Connor and Uldred dont work: Connor was trained by a confirmed blood mage who never rose above apprentice, Connor broke into his teachers room and read forbidden books that his teacher DID NOT let him read out of a desperate desire to save his fathers life, which only prove Connor should have had better training and education which is one of my three points to avoid abominations. Uldred was a failed product of the current Circle who, desiring freedom for his mage brothers, turned to forbidden magic and still wouldn't have turned into an abomination if Wynne hadn't ratted out the truth about Logain and shot up his alliance deal causing the Mages to turn on him. So again...where is it proven wrong?
5) Demon's don't just hand out forbidden blood magic, they make deals. Educated mages who have been legitimately taught why the demon's and blood magic are to be avoided and not just because "the maker says so" should learn to avoid them, those who ARE a danger and don't learn the lesson would never be released. (though I'll be the first to admit that accidents will probably happen no matter what system is in place)
6) By patrolling? Paying a visit to those towns every once in awhile? I'm not saying they'll detect it the moment it happens, but if the maleficarum is actually doing anything with his thralls then a templar even halfway on his game should notice something. As to how to counter there are two options: Litany of Andralla and there's the age old cutting off the maleficarum's head.
7) "Bias is natural" You're both right and wrong. In general, bias is a defense that helps us make decisions, it lets us quickly decide between two roughly equal things and choose when logic would leave us pondering for hours. Bias is not natural when it causes us to fear a group simply because they exist. People deserve to be judged on their own actions, not on the action's of some who came before them. This kind of bias is caused by ignorance, both innocent and willful. The innocent ignorance is simply not knowing any better, that CAN be cured with proper education, willful is seeing the truth before you but closing your eyes because you don't want to believe it. The willfully ignorant have my permission to get burned to a crisp because they refuse to look past their petty prejudice.
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