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[Master Warder Z_]

The above post screams the whole "Leave mages alone! I'm serious! Mantra"

 

._.

[wcholcombe]

Only mages with a rank in circle can ask to leave. And even then it has to be accepted.

 

Wynne had a rank, she was senior enchanter, she would be first enchanter after Irving. 

 

So no, not all mages can leave. A selected few can ask to leave.

A first enchanter can take all of his fellow enchanters on a retreat-according to DAO.

Apprentices can leave the tower with their Masters-Rhyss as an apprentice accompanied Arvin his master to Tevinter. just the two of them on Templars.

[wcholcombe]

 

 

1) Really? The lore and wiki seems to disagree with you: http://dragonage.wik...iki/Abomination

My 95% comes from if you remove the majority of reasons a person becomes an abomination, then all that's left is that small percentage of the uncontrollable variety.

 

2) My first example was mostly for young children who are first gaining their magic, not apostates. Again my point is that you get less people fleeing and hiding if you're not locking them up and throwing away the key.

 

3)My point is that sending stones exist and therefore could be placed in Templar Outposts, coupled with conventional communications it would allow fairly good coordination for locating the maleficarum.

 

4) "that notion is proved wrong" where? The two examples you put of Connor and Uldred dont work: Connor was trained by a confirmed blood mage who never rose above apprentice, Connor broke into his teachers room and read forbidden books that his teacher DID NOT let him read out of a desperate desire to save his fathers life, which only prove Connor should have had better training and education which is one of my three points to avoid abominations. Uldred was a failed product of the current Circle who, desiring freedom for his mage brothers, turned to forbidden magic and still wouldn't have turned into an abomination if Wynne hadn't ratted out the truth about Logain and shot up his alliance deal causing the Mages to turn on him. So again...where is it proven wrong?

 

5) Demon's don't just hand out forbidden blood magic, they make deals. Educated mages who have been legitimately taught why the demon's and blood magic are to be avoided and not just because "the maker says so" should learn to avoid them, those who ARE a danger and don't learn the lesson would never be released. (though I'll be the first to admit that accidents will probably happen no matter what system is in place)

 

6) By patrolling? Paying a visit to those towns every once in awhile? I'm not saying they'll detect it the moment it happens, but if the maleficarum is actually doing anything with his thralls then a templar even halfway on his game should notice something. As to how to counter there are two options: Litany of Andralla and there's the age old cutting off the maleficarum's head.

 

7) "Bias is natural" You're both right and wrong. In general, bias is a defense that helps us make decisions, it lets us quickly decide between two roughly equal things and choose when logic would leave us pondering for hours. Bias is not natural when it causes us to fear a group simply because they exist. People deserve to be judged on their own actions, not on the action's of some who came before them. This kind of bias is caused by ignorance, both innocent and willful. The innocent ignorance is simply not knowing any better, that CAN be cured with proper education, willful is seeing the truth before you but closing your eyes because you don't want to believe it. The willfully ignorant have my permission to get burned to a crisp because they refuse to look past their petty prejudice.

 

While I will agree that anti mages think possession happens too easy, pro mages think it happens too hard.

 

Uldred became an abomination for none of your given reasons. It was a power play/coup attempt.  The circle was his target, but if not for the circle he would have used the lure of greater power to establish himself as a lord of people anyway.  Uldred's wasn't some attempt at freedom, it was about him wanting to be in power.

 

Wynne herself states that even among trained mages, one single slip up and all you every were is gone and replaced with madness.

[Xilizhra]

While I will agree that anti mages think possession happens too easy, pro mages think it happens too hard.

 

Uldred became an abomination for none of your given reasons. It was a power play/coup attempt.  The circle was his target, but if not for the circle he would have used the lure of greater power to establish himself as a lord of people anyway.  Uldred's wasn't some attempt at freedom, it was about him wanting to be in power.

 

Wynne herself states that even among trained mages, one single slip up and all you every were is gone and replaced with madness.

Well, yes... just like a single slip when walking on the edge of a cliff might kill you. It's still not something most people will encounter regularly.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, yes... just like a single slip when walking on the edge of a cliff might kill you. It's still not something most people will encounter regularly.

 

Mages walk a cliff every time they close their eyes for sleep.

 

Far more regular then you would imply.

[Lulupab]

A first enchanter can take all of his fellow enchanters on a retreat-according to DAO.

Apprentices can leave the tower with their Masters-Rhyss as an apprentice accompanied Arvin his master to Tevinter. just the two of them on Templars.

 

I don't see how it makes a difference. Those with rank are only ones who can leave and they can take others with them too. I think "I missed my mother" is not a legit reason to leave the tower though.

[DontWakeTheBear]

 

The above post screams the whole "Leave mages alone! I'm serious! Mantra"

 

._.

 

 

Not really, if you'd read my various posts (and I know you've read at least some) you'd see I'm fully supportive of Templar over-site, but also of proper co-existence something which your posts seemingly do not assume is possible. I fully believe that with proper training, education, and over-site most mages could be fully functioning and contributing members of Thedas society, while those whom lack the ability could be removed.

 

While I will agree that anti mages think possession happens too easy, pro mages think it happens too hard.

 

Uldred became an abomination for none of your given reasons. It was a power play/coup attempt.  The circle was his target, but if not for the circle he would have used the lure of greater power to establish himself as a lord of people anyway.  Uldred's wasn't some attempt at freedom, it was about him wanting to be in power.

Maybe, it's hard to find a middle path. I never claimed there'd ever be no abominations, merely they'd be able to stop most of them and deal with those that strung up.

 

I never claimed Uldred was a good guy. He believed he shouldn't be held accountable to the Templars and Chantry, he gathered like minded individuals, and even got the support of the current Monarchy, when his bid for power failed, he summoned a powerful pride demon and lost control of it. He was a failure of the Circle, a mage who was taught how to use his power but not why, something I believe should be better focused on.

 

 

Wynne herself states that even among trained mages, one single slip up and all you every were is gone and replaced with madness.

 

 

True, and although I took that more as depression on her part that point is still valid. When they're apprentices, they're vulnerable. They lack the strength of will and experience to fend off demons and that's why it's so important to make sure they're trained and guided properly, but AFTER they're trained and guided properly I feel they should be able to return to the outside world.

 

 

Despite what some may think I'm not just pro-mage, I fully support the care, knowledge, and vigilance that the Chantry and Templars can provide to the Circle, but I feel that keeping them secluded from the rest of Thedas for their whole lives is wasteful and stupid and those didn't see a rebellion coming clearly don't know much about history, both in game and real life.

[Helios969]

^Maybe it should be.  That's one of my biggest issues with the way mages are treated - separating child from parent and vice versa.  Hell, if I knew the Templars were coming for my son I'd be the one stealing the Qunari Gaatlok (or the poison gas variety) and landmining the h*ll out of them.  That's also one of the most idiotic parts of the system as I see it...removing the most influential people in most peoples' lives (family.)

[wcholcombe]

I don't see how it makes a difference. Those with rank are only ones who can leave and they can take others with them too. I think "I missed my mother" is not a legit reason to leave the tower though.

It was in response to you stating that apprentices couldn't leave the tower.  And the general idea that you made the tower sound far more restrictive then it is.

[wcholcombe]

^Maybe it should be.  That's one of my biggest issues with the way mages are treated - separating child from parent and vice versa.  Hell, if I knew the Templars were coming for my son I'd be the one stealing the Qunari Gaatlok (or the poison gas variety) and landmining the h*ll out of them.  That's also one of the most idiotic parts of the system as I see it...removing the most influential people in most peoples' lives (family.)

Well, there are reasons. Most parents seem to be all too happy to have the mage child taken from them.

Plus, its similar to the prep academy idea.  Parents are a distraction and coddle the mage.  As Wynne says, learning to casts spells is extremely demanding and detailed, you make a slight mistake and the spell hopefully doesn't work, worst case it does something completely unintended.

 

Several cultures believe today even that kids learn best when removed from their families.

[GVulture]

^Maybe it should be.  That's one of my biggest issues with the way mages are treated - separating child from parent and vice versa.  Hell, if I knew the Templars were coming for my son I'd be the one stealing the Qunari Gaatlok (or the poison gas variety) and landmining the h*ll out of them.  That's also one of the most idiotic parts of the system as I see it...removing the most influential people in most peoples' lives (family.)

The separating isn't out of malicious intent. It is because magelings needs either a Templar or a fully trained mage to keep them from exploding things or turning abomination the first time they have a bad dream. The Templar anti-magic keeps them from casting subconsciously and keeps their dreams a bit safer. If the Templars were all about separating mages from parents no matter what, they'd be trying to raid Dalish camps for the mage children there. They don't bother because elven mages are under the care of their Keepers who keep elf magelings from singing eyebrows.

 

If the muggles had a way to keep their mage children safe the way the Dalish and Malcolm did, I'm sure there the separation wouldn't be needed. The Circles exist because it was easier and safer to keep them all together than it was to spread thin across all of Thedas outposts for mage children.

 

 

 

Well, there are reasons. Most parents seem to be all too happy to have the mage child taken from them.

Plus, its similar to the prep academy idea.  Parents are a distraction and coddle the mage.  As Wynne says, learning to casts spells is extremely demanding and detailed, you make a slight mistake and the spell hopefully doesn't work, worst case it does something completely unintended.

 

Several cultures believe today even that kids learn best when removed from their families.

There is that. When the parents aren't outright terrified of their mage child, they coddle and protect when they NEED guidance. Like Isolde and Connor.

[wcholcombe]

The separating isn't out of malicious intent. It is because magelings needs either a Templar or a fully trained mage to keep them from exploding things or turning abomination the first time they have a bad dream. The Templar anti-magic keeps them from casting subconsciously and keeps their dreams a bit safer. If the Templars were all about separating mages from parents no matter what, they'd be trying to raid Dalish camps for the mage children there. They don't bother because elven mages are under the care of their Keepers who keep elf magelings from singing eyebrows.

 

If the muggles had a way to keep their mage children safe the way the Dalish and Malcolm did, I'm sure there the separation wouldn't be needed. The Circles exist because it was easier and safer to keep them all together than it was to spread thin across all of Thedas outposts for mage children.

 

 

 

There is that. When the parents aren't outright terrified of their mage child, they coddle and protect when they NEED guidance. Like Isolde and Connor.

Actually-Templars are perfectly happy to take dalish children or even dalish mages away. If they could capture a dalish keeper they would be more then willing to. They certainly don't have an idea that dalish mage children are being taken care of so they don't bother with them.

[Lillian]

Hmm... On the topic of free mages, how do you guys feel about Nevarra? I mean, the Tevinter Imperium is cited for being the most extreme point of mage freedom, but Nevarra seems to be more in the middle... I really want to know more about it, and see how they deal with their mages. It'd be incredibly interesting to learn about their culture. I especially want to know about the Mortalitasi. There might be a new perspective on this conflict we gain from learning about it.

[GVulture]

Hmm... On the topic of free mages, how do you guys feel about Nevarra? I mean, the Tevinter Imperium is cited for being the most extreme point of mage freedom, but Nevarra seems to be more in the middle... I really want to know more about it, and see how they deal with their mages. It'd be incredibly interesting to learn about their culture. I especially want to know about the Mortalitasi. There might be a new perspective on this conflict we gain from learning about it.

Don't they have a super secret way of dealing with mage dangers? IIRC?

[Master Warder Z_]

Don't they have a super secret way of dealing with mage dangers? IIRC?

 

Not that i am aware of, they had a circle like everywhere else in Thedas.

[Lillian]

Don't they have a super secret way of dealing with mage dangers? IIRC?

Apparently, the Mortalitasi is the most educated group of mages outside of the Tevinter Imperium. I'd bet that they govern themselves, since having outside agents would harm their secrecy. About actual Nevarran society? I don't know, really... I don't even know if they have Templars or follow The Chantry's belief.

[Master Warder Z_]

Apparently, the Mortalitasi is the most educated group of mages outside of the Tevinter Imperium. I'd bet that they govern themselves, since having outside agents would harm their secrecy. About actual Nevarran society? I don't know, really... I don't even know if they have Templars or follow The Chantry's belief.

 

They had a Circle ._.

[wcholcombe]

Apparently, the Mortalitasi is the most educated group of mages outside of the Tevinter Imperium. I'd bet that they govern themselves, since having outside agents would harm their secrecy. About actual Nevarran society? I don't know, really... I don't even know if they have Templars or follow The Chantry's belief.

Dominant religion in Nevarra is still chantry. They are andrastian. They have a circle and templars. The motalasti aren't even confirmed to truly be mages. Some things make them sound like high priests of the dead.

[MisterJB]

Hmm... On the topic of free mages, how do you guys feel about Nevarra? I mean, the Tevinter Imperium is cited for being the most extreme point of mage freedom, but Nevarra seems to be more in the middle... I really want to know more about it, and see how they deal with their mages. It'd be incredibly interesting to learn about their culture. I especially want to know about the Mortalitasi. There might be a new perspective on this conflict we gain from learning about it.

We don't really know enough about Nevarra. The mages there appear influential and some nobles even claim they are the true power behind the throne; maybe that's true, maybe it's just as way to justify their own power-grab.

Their most noteworthy characteristic is how they extablished the practice of entombing corpses which makes them perfect vessels for demons.

 

So far, nothing but bad things to be said about the Nevarran Circle. But I am unwilling to condemn them based only on that .

[Lillian]

Dominant religion in Nevarra is still chantry. They are andrastian. They have a circle and templars. The motalasti aren't even confirmed to truly be mages. Some things make them sound like high priests of the dead.

I find that... Hard to believe, considering their views on mages, and their beliefs about the Fade. I'd find it more likely for them to share the religious beliefs of the Tevinter Imperium, which is very close to them in culture and geographically. But then again, we really need to know more about Nevarra to judge anything, I suppose.

[wcholcombe]

I find that... Hard to believe, considering their views on mages, and their beliefs about the Fade. I'd find it more likely for them to share the religious beliefs of the Tevinter Imperium, which is very close to them in culture and geographically. But then again, we really need to know more about Nevarra to judge anything, I suppose.

Think what you like. World of Thedas disagrees with you. The only Nevarran we have met-Cassandra is very Andrastian.

The part about the mortalasti isn't definite, but all I have been able to find about them is they were founded by a magister and they prepare bodies for burial and they tend the city of the dead..

[Lillian]

Hmmm... Well, I'm sure DA:I will offer us more insight on Nevarra.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hmmm... Well, I'm sure DA:I will offer us more insight on Nevarra.

Almost assuredly, since we know we are going there now.

[Lillian]

I have a feeling we'll get a fun vacation to the Grand Necropolis!... With a few fade tears that cause mass reanimation, of course.

[MisterJB]

A practice extablished by a Tevinter that makes corpses especially suitable for demonic possession.

Am I the only one reading "Evil Plan" all over it?