Or they do that other thing they do and grasp at straws. Like how Shepard's idle animation occasionaly has him/her glancing around and that's proof of how Shepard has "feelings of being watched".
Hadn't heard that one before. Hilarious.
That's like proving IT by the weapon bug in cutscenes
Like how Shepard's idle animation occasionaly has him/her glancing around and that's proof of how Shepard has "feelings of being watched".
Please don't tell me that IT'ers actually believe that....
Yeah, I think it's in one of CleverNoob's vids. Though to be fair most of the ITers in this thread have made it clear CleverNoob doesn't speak for them. But it is the kind of thing the ITer by and large believes. Look at this thread which asserts that pretty much every line is a foreshadowing of IT:
http://indoctrinatio...e-the-it-cypher
Seriously I couldn't read past the first example. Datapads on Eden Prime that are there for the Eden Prime: Resistance quest are analogies fo indoctrination? Seriously?
And does anyone call the OP on this BS? no of course not. All the replies are like "good catch" and "nice job". See stuff like this is why the majority doesn't take IT seriously.
There's a double meaning to many of the conversations. Some are weak (the Eden Prime dart-on-the-wall speculation). Others are quite poignant (ex: "One shouldn't make moral choices in a vacuum." as referring to the so called Decision Chamber hanging out in space). Some fall between the two (Eve's story about digging out of a cave the wrong way in her search for the surface as an analogy for replaying the game until you finally come up for air with the breath scene). But skepticism is always healthy.
Please don't tell me that IT'ers actually believe that....
I had never heard about or noticed the idle animation until now, nor have I heard such a thing mentioned before in the IT circles I've traveled through. That would be the weakest of weak evidence, in the same category of trying to hear Harbinger in the Normandy's engine room (re: that's not going to happen). Darts are routinely thrown at the wall to see if they stick, but I think this one missed and hit the sofa. So no, don't be silly.
.....I honestly don't like some of my early posts in that thread.
Anyway, the thread you really want is this one:
http://indoctrinatio...otes-collection
.....I honestly don't like some of my early posts in that thread.
Anyway, the thread you really want is this one:
I can see why you don't like them.
But this entire thing it's so.. ridiculous. The fallacy is in trying to find IT in everything. EVERYTHING.
A simple conversation on the Normandy? (bolded is what it's supposed to 'mean')
Denying reality, living in the illusion:
Kaidan: Are you flirting with me, Commander? Wait, wait! Don't tell me. Let me live in the illusion.
They gotta be joking man.
Like I said earlier, some of these things are weaker than others. That was an example of a weak Kaidan quote. Here's a stronger one.
Kaidan: "People near death say their lives flash before their eyes... The future flashed for me--the anguish, the families, the children... It made me determined to live."
The secondary meaning there, to me, can be an explanation of what Shepard sees at the very ending of the game after making his "choice". In the original game, that's the Normandy crash. In EC it's also his own funeral and whatever monologue about the outcome of his choice is appropriate. It's all a near-death vision. If you're (un)lucky, you wake up from that illusion in the breath scene to find yourself in the rubble.
It's all an interpretation. It might be true or it might not. I need a Mass Effect 4.
It's all an interpretation. It might be true or it might not. I need a Mass Effect 4.
If by true you mean the intended meaning of the endings by the devs, then no it's not possible for it to be true currently. BW stated that during development an indoctrination section was in the works towards the end of the game but was scrapped. Indoctrination is therefore not part of the ending.
The EC slides were also explicitly created to give closure to the characters of the world, which conflicts with any theory that posits them as taking place in Shepard's head.
I'm sorry but not all interpretations were created equal. If a bunch of points on a graph can be connected with a straight line then there's not much point to drawing a bunch of ridiculous squigglies in between each point to connect them.
Even if the IT was true, which it isn't, it would be almost as bad as the actual ending.
Much like the Catalyst and it's synthetics versus organics conflict, there were no actual themes or foreshadowing leading up to it, (until show-horned in by the dying reaper on Rannoch.)
A deus-ex machina is should NEVER be used. Ever. An abrupt change at the climax of a story is a big no-no. This goes in line with IT. It was made to try and rationalize the pile of **** we got as an ending. If the only way to get evidence is to reach so far up your ass you're pulling stuff out from your stomach, then the evidence is simply not there. IT is not quite a deus ex machina, but it's a nonsensical twist that goes against established lore. Indoctrination is a result of extended contact with a Reaper or a Reaper indoctrination device. Long, steady exposure. Which Shepard is never exposed to.
Yet Shepard have encounter several Reapers and Reaper devices. And Within those Dreams, you do have whispers. and Yes IT is very much true and it is goes with Lore.
Well, obviously the use of imperative "Wake Up (!!!11eleven)" rather than present continuous ("waking up") implies that Shepard has yet to wake up I.e. that Shepard is really still dreaming when he is "facing the Catalyst" - this clearly proves IT.What's odd about calling the music "Wake Up" when it's for a scene that starts with the character waking up?
Sorry, but that's stupid - you can't argue that Shepard couldn't possibly have been exposed to indoctrination, and you don't have to: You could be dreaming right now, but you'd be fool to act on this hypothesis (e.g. By throwing your computer out of the nearest window) without concrete proof and the same applies to Shepard - he could have been exposed to radiation, but unless you have strong evidence to the contrary you have to stick with the default assumption that events are real.Which Shepard is never exposed to.
I like Blasto.
*sees the Indoctrination devices hidden in this thread; wonders if there will be a team to disable them*
Even if the IT was true, which it isn't, it would be almost as bad as the actual ending.
Much like the Catalyst and it's synthetics versus organics conflict, there were no actual themes or foreshadowing leading up to it, (until show-horned in by the dying reaper on Rannoch.)
A deus-ex machina is should NEVER be used. Ever. An abrupt change at the climax of a story is a big no-no. This goes in line with IT. It was made to try and rationalize the pile of **** we got as an ending. If the only way to get evidence is to reach so far up your ass you're pulling stuff out from your stomach, then the evidence is simply not there. IT is not quite a deus ex machina, but it's a nonsensical twist that goes against established lore. Indoctrination is a result of extended contact with a Reaper or a Reaper indoctrination device. Long, steady exposure. Which Shepard is never exposed to.
It would be less out of the blue than what the Starchild delivered. Shepard has been consistently exposed Reaper technology and indoctrinated agents throughout the trilogy. dropping hints that this has effected Shepard by ME3 wouldn't be a complete surprise (if Bioware had chosen to do this).
But IT's inherent weakness is that even if it were true, then ME3 has no ending. The Reapers are not defeated, Shepard simply "wakes up" after a failed indoctrination attempt. The war continues.
But yes, an abrupt change just as everything is coming together is a terrible thing to do.
IT? No. It's RT. Aria threw a big party right after the Suicide Mission. Shepard challenged a Krogan to a ryncol drinking contest and hallucinated the entirety of ME3 on the bathroom floor in Afterlife. Shepard never did Arrival. The Reapers never invaded. They've been stopped forever. Ryncol Theory. It works.
Hello ladys and gents. I still believe in it, but why i can not say because there would be no point. People at this point have already said their peace, and it's been two years. People have already decided this, and taken their stance towards the endings. It would be pointless to argue, and debate about it anymore, since in everyone's mind, they have already taken a stance on the ending.
However if you want to talk about IT.
http://indoctrinatio...rumotion.co.uk/
here you go.
But IT's inherent weakness is that even if it were true, then ME3 has no ending. The Reapers are not defeated, Shepard simply "wakes up" after a failed indoctrination attempt. The war continues.
I would argue that that is less a weakness of the Indoctrination Theory and more a weakness of the game itself. I sure didn't finish that game feeling like I'd won anything.
IT? No. It's RT. Aria threw a big party right after the Suicide Mission. Shepard challenged a Krogan to a ryncol drinking contest and hallucinated the entirety of ME3 on the bathroom floor in Afterlife. Shepard never did Arrival. The Reapers never invaded. They've been stopped forever. Ryncol Theory. It works.
Sounds similar to my Arrival version.
That ME2, ME1 and their dlc are canon but Harbringer was breaking down Shepard's will by showing him ME3 while he was out during Arrival. SO regardless of ending that he "choose", he awakes and destroys the Alpha Rely and thus trapping the Reapers in Dark Space forever.
I would argue that that is less a weakness of the Indoctrination Theory and more a weakness of the game itself. I sure didn't finish that game feeling like I'd won anything.
Well, there is that...
I can see why you don't like them.
But this entire thing it's so.. ridiculous. The fallacy is in trying to find IT in everything. EVERYTHING.
A simple conversation on the Normandy? (bolded is what it's supposed to 'mean')
Denying reality, living in the illusion:
Kaidan: Are you flirting with me, Commander? Wait, wait! Don't tell me. Let me live in the illusion.
They gotta be joking man.
These guys are literally programmed to see everything in the games as some reaffirmation of their agenda (assisted further by their selective-memory), and then have the gall to call others "indoctrinated!" Comedy gold-mine. IT is like a parody of its own following -- LOL!
HYR you need to make fun of my posts more.
But IT's inherent weakness is that even if it were true, then ME3 has no ending. The Reapers are not defeated, Shepard simply "wakes up" after a failed indoctrination attempt. The war continues.
I agree with this, and is my main problem with this theory. All the hard work for nothing? shepard just stays there, dreaming by a possible endoctrination, while everyone in the galaxy gets their butts kicked, and all the alliances and resources gotten just for nothing?
I wanna know how bioware will solve the canon story for the next mass effect.
HYR you need to make fun of my posts more.
... doesn't work like that. I call it like I see it, nothing more!
I actually tend to like your contributions. Any posts with thoughtful analysis -- which don't reek of spin or elitism -- get my approval.
There are various other IT'ers on my good side as well, for one reason or another. byne, for example, always struck me as a stand-up kind of a guy when I've talked to him, not an ideologue on this topic, just that he prefers his own interpretations. Also frickin love master blaster. So for the record: my choice words for IT are not directed all of its supporters or even the concept as such, just at the "polarization" (growing extremism in belief) which has plagued both of those things ever since EC. I'm not stereotyping. I'm generalizing, exceptions are implied.
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