937 réponses à ce sujet

[ZerebusPrime]

So that chicken stir-fry I had for dinner preserves poultry life 

 

No, to do that it would have to be thoroughly scanned and broken down into its component elements first and then reassembled into Reaper form.

 

So basically a Chicken McNugget.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Congratulations HYR 2.0 - I think you may have just added a fresh idea to the Indoctrination Theory!  

 

Someone was going to come to that conclusion even if I hadn't. I was just responding to it preemptively.

 

Still the core problem remains: if there was any truth to IT, you'd get Control/Sync in low/lower EMS fail states, not Destroy.

 

It doesn't fit.  Going back to the first game:

 

"We are each a nation- independent, free of all weakness"

 

This, as well as many other things interpreted as IT, just shows the writers suffered multiple Canon Discontinuities if not complete Critical Research Failures in making ME3

 

"Mind control doesn't work so well you warn someone you're doing it."

[CronoDragoon]

Still the core problem remains: if there was any truth to IT, you'd get Control/Sync in low/lower EMS fail states, not Destroy.

 

I'm still not sure why the indoctrination attempt happens at all. Harbinger just fried Shepard at the beam. If the Catalyst can indoctrinate Shepard then he knows where Shepard is. Why doesn't someone just go finish Shepard off?

[AlanC9]

Or ignore him.

[Iakus]

 

"Mind control doesn't work so well you warn someone you're doing it."

 

I'll bet Rana Thanoptis never quoted that 

[SwobyJ]

It's not just mind control.

 

Hint: It's in the name.

[masster blaster]

I'm still not sure why the indoctrination attempt happens at all. Harbinger just fried Shepard at the beam. If the Catalyst can indoctrinate Shepard then he knows where Shepard is. Why doesn't someone just go finish Shepard off?

That's the point.

 

On one hand you can see it has Harbinger might now have plans for Shepard at this point. We know regardless in the past two Reaper we fight, they are trying to kill our Shepard's, yet however Harbinger let's Shepard live. No matter how much you can argue about Shepard has better armor, and better cybernetic implants. Well first off if Harbinger is one shooting marines, makos, and gun choppers...I doubt Harbinger would miss on purpose if it was trying to kill Shepard. It makes no sense for Shepard to live under the catalyst orders if you have low ems control, and destroy. Not to mention on why the catalyst would send TIM to stop Shepard if it knew about what the crucible will do, and how all the choices might affect it's plans if Shepard picked control, and Destroy if not synthesis. ( Which imo makes the second most unanswered thing about ME3, synthesis ending that is. I can see control to some degree, yet synthesis no.) Moreover you can remove your some of your implants in ME2, yet imo that is the least likely to help Shepard survive at all against harbinger's beam.

Plot armor, or bad writing. I know it's a very common thing to say, but in literal terms this is how you explain why Shepard lives, yet I like to think from what we talked about " Indoctrination upon Shepard at the end of ME3" is likely happening, yet it still stands valid, yet unconfirmed true.

But that is just explaining why they let Shepard live.

 

My guess would be they want Shepard to be converted to their side/ their way of thinking. Synthesis and Control have been influenced by the Reapers heavily, and the organics and synthetics that are under the Reaper's control will argue and defend their master's goals till their bitter end. Having Shepard as an agent for them is a tremendous defeat, no matter how Shepard becomes their slave as a husk( low ems Control), an agent like TIM or Saren( mid ems Control), or possible become the new Reaper figure head for a Capital( Synthesis) or Destroyer( high ems Control) class Reaper" Now if Shepard is not willing to agree to choice either one of these choices, then if Shepard picks Destroy, the Reapers will try to terminate Shepard, yet something goes wrong. My guess would be if we have a maxed out Destroy best ending, The Normandy, Hammer team, or some of Sword's fleet attack Harbinger while Shepard is back on Earth, laying in a pile of rubble.

 

However if not have any maxed out Destroy ultimate ending, then my best guess would be although Shepard has been a thorn in the Reaper's side, they respect Shepard to some degree, yet they want Shepard to suffer. The best way they can do this is play with Shepard's hope. The EC slide show is a great way to incorporate this idea.  Shepard sees the future happen in  his/her mind. We know from arrival that Harbinger can implant images if you failed the arrival and when you first come in contact with object Rho,  So from this it is plausible that the EC slide shows are images of Shepard's final insult more to speak. You thought you saved everyone, you thought all is well, and happy. You were wrong. This idea is still intact after the breath scene comes after the memorial scene.

 

Though you can argue they don't put Shepard's name up because they get that feeling that Shepard is alive.....it is nothing hard to believe that Shepard is waking up, so his/her mind is telling her/him that he/she is not dead, and that is when the breath scene comes in. And we can go further in depth with the rubble around Shepard, and how could Shepard survive a huge explosion that is taking breaking apart the Citadel in pieces, and how the main explosion is consuming Shepard in the VACUUM of space.

 

Yes i know you can say, it's a game, or bad wring, or plot armor, yet Mass Effect already established in ME1, and ME2 that you need a helmet to breath in outer space, and when the Citadel arms are closed, when you are outside the barrier that keeps the oxygen, and other gases from escaping the Citadel. Though you can say Shepard is still in the barrier, objects can go through the barrier, and the amount of force that hit's the citadel and how Destroy affects technology, it is very likely the Citadel's power is out, and for a long period of time Shepard is exposed to outer space, and the fire, rubble, and traumatic force will most likely kill him/her.

[SwobyJ]

YOUR FORMATTING.

 

EDIT: YOU FIXED IT

[AlanC9]

Yes i know you can say, it's a game, or bad wring, or plot armor, yet Mass Effect already established in ME1, and ME2 that you need a helmet to breath in outer space, and when the Citadel arms are closed, when you are outside the barrier that keeps the oxygen, and other gases from escaping the Citadel. Though you can say Shepard is still in the barrier, objects can go through the barrier, and the amount of force that hit's the citadel and how Destroy affects technology, it is very likely the Citadel's power is out, and for a long period of time Shepard is exposed to outer space, and the fire, rubble, and traumatic force will most likely kill him/her.

"Very likely" proves absolutely nothing, of course. It was very likely that nobody would find a magic voice recording that proved Saren was a traitor. And yet, here we are.

Oh, right... the Reapers wanted Saren to be caught.

[masster blaster]

"Very likely" proves absolutely nothing, of course. It was very likely that nobody would find a magic voice recording that proved Saren was a traitor. And yet, here we are.

Oh, right... the Reapers wanted Saren to be caught.

As does your sarcastic reply which goes off from what I said.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeap. There door is right there. There is no reason for you to do anything but simply go. You call us crazy, cult end Sayers, and so much worsen things that I simply do not like. You claim what you SAY is true but you are simply all talk and not bite. So please either leave and just leave those that want to talk about IT alone, or simply continue to rant about bs claims and being seen as a troll on the internet.

 

@ Seb, not Hinata Hyuuga.

I was going to say: What did I say?

[masster blaster]

I was going to say: What did I say?

Ya I am sorry about that. Was intended for Seb because the guy or girl can act like a jerk and a troll.

[DeathScepter]

i do believe in Bioware and I do believe in the IT. 

[masster blaster]

i do believe in Bioware and I do believe in the IT. 

Cool. I am glad you do.

[DeathScepter]

Someone was going to come to that conclusion even if I hadn't. I was just responding to it preemptively.

 

Still the core problem remains: if there was any truth to IT, you'd get Control/Sync in low/lower EMS fail states, not Destroy.

 

 

"Mind control doesn't work so well you warn someone you're doing it."

 

 

there are good answers for that within a Functional IT.

[masster blaster]

there are good answers for that within a Functional IT.

I understand you believe in IT, yet when you say "  there are good answers for that within a Functional IT." That does not sway the other person. It just shows them that you have nothing to say to refute their question, or to answer it. If you are going to say "there are good answers for that within a Functional IT." Then be prepared to answer it in full force.

 

I have been with IT for two years now, so trust me when i tell you that this only has the other side think that we have nothing to say at all, that or we are all talk, yet no action.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ya I am sorry about that. Was intended for Seb because the guy or girl can act like a jerk and a troll.

Ah, okay.

[CronoDragoon]

My guess would be they want Shepard to be converted to their side/ their way of thinking. Synthesis and Control have been influenced by the Reapers heavily, and the organics and synthetics that are under the Reaper's control will argue and defend their master's goals till their bitter end. Having Shepard as an agent for them is a tremendous defeat

 

So, despite the fact that simply winning this battle ensures galactic victory for the Reapers, they are going to attempt to indoctrinate Shepard for the post-battle clean-up war to deflate morale. Doesn't make a lot of sense but I suppose I've accepted more dubious logic on BioWare's behalf. But why doesn't Harbinger just stay there and blast Shepard in case he breaks free from indoctrination?

[masster blaster]

So, despite the fact that simply winning this battle ensures galactic victory for the Reapers, they are going to attempt to indoctrinate Shepard for the post-battle clean-up war to deflate morale. Doesn't make a lot of sense but I suppose I've accepted more dubious logic on BioWare's behalf. But why doesn't Harbinger just stay there and blast Shepard in case he breaks free from indoctrination?

Ya. To have the Hero that saved the Citadel, Stop the collectors, and untied a galaxy wide counter attack....that would seriously damage morale, and not to mention have more organics and synthetics be drawn into joining the Reapers side.

 

As for Harbinger leaving. IT takes place right when Shepard get's knocked back by Harbinger's beam blast radius( well the primary place Shepard goes into a dream like Indoctrination setup. It can be said that when the transportation shuttle you ride in towards the beam get's taken out by Harbinger and the dream/Indoctrination attempt starts from there on). Harbinger doesn't hit Shepard directly because that would kill Shepard. You see when things go white to black and you begin to hear a high pitch sound that is when Shepard goes into a dream like state, only Shepard is being Indoctrinated. Why would Harbinger leave in this dream Indoctrination attempt. To make it look real, and for Harbinger to go do something else in the mean time, or prepare for the many Indoctrination scenarios that will break Shepard down, yet still be realistic enough for Shepard to think all is real and happening.

 

It's not ideal, but it explains why Harbinger leaves and let's Shepard live. In viewing that scene without a theory or another view, it can be said it is bad writing, yet I would like to think Harbinger is infecting Shepard's shattered mind and is preparing to Indoctrinate Shepard.

 

Also to why doesn't Harbinger just blast Shepard if Shepard breaks free.

 

My guess would be if we have a maxed out Destroy best ending, The Normandy, Hammer team, or some of Sword's fleet attacks Harbinger while Shepard is back on Earth, laying in a pile of rubble and waking up. That is only if you have the highest Destroy ending though. They could be trying to save Shepard for all we know if you have mid, high, or low ems for Destroy and all the other endings, yet it is simply not enough firepower to distract Harbinger. For Refuse.....not going to lie Harbinger does not let Shepard suffer because Shepard is broken in a sense. Shepard has given up the fight. Gave a heck of a speech yet looked defeated after wards. For Control and synthesis your Shepard agrees with their way of thinking and solving the problem. Though not like we see them do in  the past, but the idea of Control and Synthesis that is. Shepard can not be saved because the Reapers have Shepard now and thus we have no more control of Shepard, and our journey ends with Shepard.

[KaiserShep]

I always thought of that high pitched sound as a vehicle for the dramatic effect, like how the ambient noise is suddenly muted just to have the reaper sounds to emphasize on the source of mortal danger.

[Farangbaa]

I always thought of that high pitched sound as a vehicle for the dramatic effect, like how the ambient noise is suddenly muted just to have the reaper sounds to emphasize on the source of mortal danger.

 

Don't you dare accuse BioWare of using cinematic effects.

 

It's all on purpose, everything is a clue.

 

You're indoctrinated!

[ElSuperGecko]

Still the core problem remains: if there was any truth to IT, you'd get Control/Sync in low/lower EMS fail states, not Destroy.

 

 

I addressed that point earlier - you simply decided to go off on a tangent.  You CAN get Control as the lower EMS fail state.  You get it if you decide to preserve Reaper tech with the goal of using their own technology against them.  You get it by opting to preserve the Collector base in ME2.

 

You get it if you ignore the warnings we have about using reaper tech, and the reservations we have over Cerberus' motives.  Funny that, isn't it?

 

And Synthesis as a low EMS option makes absolutely zero sense either way.  Do not forget the Reapers motives for starting this war in the first place.  They are harvesting organic life.  They have tried to create a human Reaper before, and what we see is suggestive that they are attempting the same thing again.  THAT is their goal.

 

And they have a direct interest in Commander Shepard.

 

“Why do you resist us, Shepard?”

“You are arrogant, Shepard, you will learn.”

“You cannot escape your destiny, Shepard.”

“You do not yet comprehend your place in things.”

“We are the Harbinger of your ascendance.”

 

All ME2 quotes, granted, but long-standing Mass Effect players should be more than aware of the Reapers obsession with Commander Shepard.  The "avatar of this cycle".

 

But why should they make him one of their own if he disappoints them?  FailShep disappoints them.  FailShep is unworthy.  FailShep is a scrub.  That's why Synthesis isn't offered to FailShep.  That's why Synthesis is the hardest ending to achieve (bar one, of course).

 

It's an ending... it just isn't necessarily a win.

[von uber]

The reapers have no need for shepard. They kill her, they win and the cycle continues.
Any other outcome where she doesn't activate the crucible is a reaper win (and you can argue that only destroy is a reaper loss).
Therfore why bother with a convoluted indoctrination attempt? They don't need her.

[ElSuperGecko]

The reapers have no need for shepard. They kill her, they win and the cycle continues.
Any other outcome where she doesn't activate the crucible is a reaper win (and you can argue that only destroy is a reaper loss).
Therfore why bother with a convoluted indoctrination attempt? They don't need her.

 

You're right, of course.  The Reapers don't NEED Shepard.  Of course they don't NEED her.  They don't NEED technically ANYONE from this cycle.

 

They WANT her.

 

I appreciate that's a subtle difference for some, but it's still a difference.  And an important one.

[Farangbaa]

You're right, of course.  The Reapers don't NEED Shepard.  Of course they don't NEED her.  They don't NEED technically ANYONE from this cycle.

 

They WANT her.

 

I appreciate that's a subtle difference for some, but it's still a difference.  And an important one.

 

So that's why they try to kill him/her all the time during ME3.