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[Farangbaa]

A 2 minute video with mostly real life humans in... and we get this sh*t again

[FellishBeast]

Well, it seems pretty straightforward to me that, if the endings are not hallucinations, then Shephard becomes indoctrinated from choosing Blue or Green. The wording that describes those options line up with what was said by indoctrinated pawns of the Reapers when they presented the same solution.

 

Indoctrination = accepting Reaper ideology

 

Synthesis and Control are established as Reaper ideals.

 

If you choose Blue or Green, you are indoctrinated. They even add the eye effect to those endings to make it clear.

 

Indoctrination isn't a theory. If you don't believe the endings were a hallucination, you have to at least accept that. It's just a matter of where you think it takes place.

[AlanC9]

Well, it seems pretty straightforward to me that, if the endings are not hallucinations, then Shephard becomes indoctrinated from choosing Blue or Green. The wording that describes those options line up with what was said by indoctrinated pawns of the Reapers when they presented the same solution.

So if they're not hallucinations, they're still hallucinations?

[AlanC9]

As for AlanC9.  I have yet to meet any Mass Effect fan who does not think IT is legit.  So some people think we may be a minority, but are we really?  Think about it.  
you may be right, you may not.

Sure. I've never met anyone who likes it, except in the sense of liking to laugh at it. But it's a small sample size.

[FellishBeast]

So if they're not hallucinations, they're still hallucinations?

Not necessarily. I'm just saying that choosing those options at the end is proven within the context of the game to be indoctrination. Those solutions may be "right", but indoctrination is still definitively taking place.

So maybe those are the right choices and indoctrination isn't a bad thing after all. It's a little weird that we spend 3 games fighting against those ideals, though, only to be encouraged to accept them...unless it's a trick.

[Farangbaa]

Why present you a hallucination that allows you to 'win'? Surely a better hallucination would be one where you can only lose.

 

Those silly Reapers.

[FellishBeast]

Why present you a hallucination that allows you to 'win'? Surely a better hallucination would be one where you can only lose.

 

Those silly Reapers.

They prefer willing servants - they last longer.

[Farangbaa]

They prefer willing servants - they last longer.

 

A yes, because servants take priority when faced with destruction.

 

Those silly Reapers.

[FellishBeast]

A yes, because servants take priority when faced with destruction.

 

Those silly Reapers.

Harbinger was clear about his intent to take Shepard alive.

 

I see what you're trying to do, but I'm curious as to whether you think it's working.

[KaiserShep]

Leave it to the reapers to slip you a virtual mickey just at the right moment. The Extended Cut should have had Shepard waking up on the side of the road, aching with a hangover.

[Bardox9]

As I've stated in other threads like this one, I think everything from the moment Shepard "wakes up" from being knocked on his ass by Harbinger is an indoctrination dream sequence like the others where Shepard is running through a forest. Everyone else that beam hit got vaporized on contact, there aren't even any ashes left behind, and yet Shepard survives it? His armor is good, but it's not that good. That beam cuts through dreadnoughts. Only way Shepard survives that is if Harbinger weakens the beam to the point it will only knock Shepard out for another round of indoctrination attempts.

 

Examine what you see when you "wake up". The armor is completely different from what most of us had him/her wearing before. Even if it was scorched, it wouldn't look like that. The pistol that not only appears from no where but also has unlimited ammo. And who, by that point, even uses that pistol? It's heavy as hell and doesn't have any mods on it. There are mounds of bodies, with the ME1 Ashley&Kaidan armors that no one uses anymore, that were not there before. Despite the armor being torched, the radio still works somehow. Assume the radio did still work, how is Hackett suppose to know it's Shepard in there. Hackett oesn't know, because Shepard isn't in there. He's buried in London rumble dreaming. There is only one way to get to the control console and yet Anderson gets there first, even though he says he came up after Shepard, from some mystery location. You can even see the console from the top of the stairs, no Anderson. You can go back and forth, he's there when you're close and gone when you're not. You can blame that on a mapping error, but it doesn't happen anywhere else on any ME3 map. Next, TIM appears from no where and now has magic powers that make Reaper sounds. The area of the TIM/Anderson encounter looks almost exactly like TIMs office at the Cerberus base. Every area in this part looks like somewhere Shepard has been before. And the odds that this random console is one that operates the ward arms makes the very idea insane. Not to mention the part where Anderson gets shot, but Shepard gets the bullet hole. Then there is star kid (who I think is Harbinger and not this Catalyst or Citadel AI or whatever) that is a walking mass effect field that talks. During the conversation (if you can call it that) Shepard never questions what this thing is telling him/her, but in ever other conversation with anyone else through out the series he is Curious George there to ask you questions about every aspect of your existence. But ghost boy, who is puking up lie after lie, gets to say whatever he wants and Shepard just accepts it as truth?? Either getting shot turns him into the universes most gullible fool, or this is a dream. It almost never occurs to anyone to question something in a dream, you just go with it. 

 

The entire ending is just one indoctrination attempt after another. Even the last part where Joker and your squadies come out of the crashed Normandy without a scratch on them is part of the dream. Joker should have been snapped in half with those glass bones of his, but instead he is walking around and standing tall. It's all a dream. How does a dream make the Citadel arms open? How does a dream effect what the Crucible does if and when it fires? It doesn't! This is just the Reapers worming their way through Shepard's head.

[MattFini]

I never bought into IT but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy reading about it. 

 

Many posts were worthwhile interpretations of the ending, but I never thought there was enough evidence in the game to sell the theory as anything more. 

Most of the awkward and curious elements in the endgame strike me as unpolished and/or rushed design choices that were the result of a severe time crunch and nothing more. 

[KaiserShep]

Everyone else that beam hit got vaporized on contact, there aren't even any ashes left behind, and yet Shepard survives it?

 

No they weren't. When Shepard is up and moving, you can clearly see bodies. There's even one soldier still alive for a few seconds.

[Farangbaa]

As I've stated in other threads like this one, I think everything from the moment Shepard "wakes up" from being knocked on his ass by Harbinger is an indoctrination dream sequence like the others where Shepard is running through a forest. Everyone else that beam hit got vaporized on contact, there aren't even any ashes left behind, and yet Shepard survives it? His armor is good, but it's not that good. That beam cuts through dreadnoughts. Only way Shepard survives that is if Harbinger weakens the beam to the point it will only knock Shepard out for another round of indoctrination attempts.

 

Examine what you see when you "wake up". The armor is completely different from what most of us had him/her wearing before. Even if it was scorched, it wouldn't look like that. The pistol that not only appears from no where but also has unlimited ammo. And who, by that point, even uses that pistol? It's heavy as hell and doesn't have any mods on it. There are mounds of bodies, with the ME1 Ashley&Kaidan armors that no one uses anymore, that were not there before. Despite the armor being torched, the radio still works somehow. Assume the radio did still work, how is Hackett suppose to know it's Shepard in there. Hackett oesn't know, because Shepard isn't in there. He's buried in London rumble dreaming. There is only one way to get to the control console and yet Anderson gets there first, even though he says he came up after Shepard, from some mystery location. You can even see the console from the top of the stairs, no Anderson. You can go back and forth, he's there when you're close and gone when you're not. You can blame that on a mapping error, but it doesn't happen anywhere else on any ME3 map. Next, TIM appears from no where and now has magic powers that make Reaper sounds. The area of the TIM/Anderson encounter looks almost exactly like TIMs office at the Cerberus base. Every area in this part looks like somewhere Shepard has been before. And the odds that this random console is one that operates the ward arms makes the very idea insane. Not to mention the part where Anderson gets shot, but Shepard gets the bullet hole. Then there is star kid (who I think is Harbinger and not this Catalyst or Citadel AI or whatever) that is a walking mass effect field that talks. During the conversation (if you can call it that) Shepard never questions what this thing is telling him/her, but in ever other conversation with anyone else through out the series he is Curious George there to ask you questions about every aspect of your existence. But ghost boy, who is puking up lie after lie, gets to say whatever he wants and Shepard just accepts it as truth?? Either getting shot turns him into the universes most gullible fool, or this is a dream. It almost never occurs to anyone to question something in a dream, you just go with it. 

 

The entire ending is just one indoctrination attempt after another. Even the last part where Joker and your squadies come out of the crashed Normandy without a scratch on them is part of the dream. Joker should have been snapped in half with those glass bones of his, but instead he is walking around and standing tall. It's all a dream. How does a dream make the Citadel arms open? How does a dream effect what the Crucible does if and when it fires? It doesn't! This is just the Reapers worming their way through Shepard's head.

 

Everything in the above can be explained by one of the following:

 

-bug

-oversight

-lack of resources

-you not having your facts straight.

[masster blaster]

I believe in the Dark Bananergy Theory! I wanted to sacrifice all humans to save the galaxy!

Hey it's what you believe in. Sounds interesting hahaha. xD

[masster blaster]

A 2 minute video with mostly real life humans in... and we get this sh*t again

Hey nobody is asking you to be in this thread. You choose to read this, and post on here.

[masster blaster]

Well, it seems pretty straightforward to me that, if the endings are not hallucinations, then Shephard becomes indoctrinated from choosing Blue or Green. The wording that describes those options line up with what was said by indoctrinated pawns of the Reapers when they presented the same solution.

 

Indoctrination = accepting Reaper ideology

 

Synthesis and Control are established as Reaper ideals.

 

If you choose Blue or Green, you are indoctrinated. They even add the eye effect to those endings to make it clear.

 

Indoctrination isn't a theory. If you don't believe the endings were a hallucination, you have to at least accept that. It's just a matter of where you think it takes place.

Pretty much how IT sees control and synthesis. They are the Reapers 'gifts" towards your Shepard/the player.  The eye means Reaper implants are in your system. Much like How Tim had his. He was a sleeper agent, awaiting for the Reapers commands.

[masster blaster]

Sure. I've never met anyone who likes it, except in the sense of liking to laugh at it. But it's a small sample size.

Oh really. try going back to all the pages, see how many people acknowledge IT, still believe in it, like it still, and simply look all over the Internet youtube, face book, and twitter stuff about Mass Effect, and you will find IT being talked about. It could be good or bad. You may not believe it but IT is still popular. Oh how rich. laughing at it. Tell me you know how many people laugh at synthesis? Control? Destroy? Refuse? a lot of people. If you ask me where is my proof of this, then let me ask about your proof of this other than on the BSN itself.

[masster blaster]

Indoctrination Theory? I don't know what you're talking about. Liara is still in that bubble on Therum and all this was just a dream.

"An I open my eyes because it was only just a dreeaammm."

hey it is what you think happened at the end. IT is a good valid theory to what happened at the end of ME3.

[masster blaster]

I never bought into IT but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy reading about it. 

 

Many posts were worthwhile interpretations of the ending, but I never thought there was enough evidence in the game to sell the theory as anything more. 

Most of the awkward and curious elements in the endgame strike me as unpolished and/or rushed design choices that were the result of a severe time crunch and nothing more. 

That is what many people say. they like what IT has, but don't believe it could be true, or it might but they still don't by into it. I will right up a good summary about all the evidence that leans towards Shepard getting Indoctrinated at the end. Will take a while, i haven't wrote one in months XD.

[masster blaster]

No they weren't. When Shepard is up and moving, you can clearly see bodies. There's even one soldier still alive for a few seconds.

Actually, i believe the explosions around the soldiers killed them as a result of the explosion around Shepard, or that of a makos, or simple bombs going off during the beam charge as we see explosions happen as you progress towards the beam. However harbinger has great accuracy. I do not believe Harbinger missed on purpose because it mad an error. To me it is Harbinger knocking out Shepard to begin his/her indoctrination process.

[masster blaster]

Everything in the above can be explained by one of the following:

 

-bug

-oversight

-lack of resources

-you not having your facts straight.

. Look say what you will but you and I have no idea what they could mean. Your argument is yours, and our arguments are ours. You will say " This" we will say " that". They had the EC to fix it all, yet they did not. Instead they made it worse. They could have fixed all these bugs, oversight lack of resources, yet they did not. Then when LEVIATHAN came out, these "oversights, bugs, and lack of resources" began to make sense.

[MattFini]

That is what many people say. they like what IT has, but don't believe it could be true, or it might but they still don't by into it. I will right up a good summary about all the evidence that leans towards Shepard getting Indoctrinated at the end. Will take a while, i haven't wrote one in months XD.

 

I remember your stuff from the IT threads (you had a krogan avatar, if I'm not mistaken!). 

 

Like I said, I very much enjoyed the possibility. Hell, it was some of the most interesting stuff to come out of the ending debacle. 

 

I don't know that I'll ever accept it as fact in my mind, especially if the next game moves away from Shepard entirely as suggested, but I'll always respect the theory and those who choose to believe/facilitate it. 

[masster blaster]

Ya it is true Leviathan was pretty much what we asked for really. Lot's of speculations happened when it came out.  The highlights were

 

1. Leviathan getting into Shepard's head and yet Shepard was still sitting in the Atlas yet not moving, only in the dream like state Shepard was forced into. Just like how the Breath scene happens after the slideshow/memorial scene roles in, it could be possible that Shepard was forced back into a pile of rubble back on Earth thanks to Harbinger's beam.

 

2. Leviathan takes the form of Ann Bryson which they used the memories of Shepard. Much like how the catalyst takes the form of the child back on Earth, that has haunted Shepard constantly throughout the game.

 

3. Leviathan uses Bryson's lab stable in Shepard's mind, thus this can support the similar objects we see at the end of ME3.

 

4. Leviathan states the the Reapers improved their mind control to new levels that we call " Indoctrination". Now if they perfected the Leviathans mind control attempt, imagine how the Reapers would use it against Shepard at the end. Very likely that they can create a virtual world that can fool Shepard so long as they play against Shepard's emotions, and keep things down to a minimal.

 

There are some smaller details and jokes that we see that Bioware may or could have intended, but those are the top 4 things that many can see how Leviathan was basically a field day for ITers, and those that wanted to speculate the endings.

 Despite what people will say, this is pretty good solid evidence imo, and that of others. However each to own opinion I see. you have yours, we have ours.