937 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

I remember your stuff from the IT threads (you had a krogan avatar, if I'm not mistaken!). 

 

Like I said, I very much enjoyed the possibility. Hell, it was some of the most interesting stuff to come out of the ending debacle. 

 

I don't know that I'll ever accept it as fact in my mind, especially if the next game moves away from Shepard entirely as suggested, but I'll always respect the theory and those who choose to believe/facilitate it. 

Thank you. And ya I did. Wrex first, then Grunt XD. Well interesting enough they didn't show the face of the N7, human, male, soldier. I believe, as do many others, it could possible be Shepard. After all Bioware did say "plans change", and " We will let the content speak for itself" So there is a possibility that it could be Shepard. For we were asked what does N7 mean. The voice that rose from that was " Shepard".

[MattFini]

Thank you. And ya I did. Wrex first, then Grunt XD. Well interesting enough they didn't show the face of the N7, human, male, soldier. I believe, as do many others, it could possible be Shepard. After all Bioware did say "plans change", and " We will let the content speak for itself" So there is a possibility that it could be Shepard. For we were asked what does N7 mean. The voice that rose from that was " Shepard".

 

I won't be getting my hopes up, but that would be my own personal preference for sure. 

[KaiserShep]

Or James Vega. Shepard has dog tags, but Vega has it written all over his back.

[masster blaster]

I won't be getting my hopes up, but that would be my own personal preference for sure. 

Ya. It is interesting to think about it though. That is just my opinion, as that of many others. I can only go off on what is in the content, and simply go off on what bioware has said, despite it might contradict their last words, or not.

 

Oh Matt, check the links down on my signatures, if you want to read more about what we have on the IT site. There is also a group on the BSN that will direct you towards the stuff i have created to prepare those that are new to IT, and that of preparing them for the IT site.

 

This goes for anyone interested in reading more about IT, and sharing in what you think, however if it is to bash IT then simply mind yourself.

[masster blaster]

Or James Vega. Shepard has dog tags, but Vega has it written all over his back.

I really don't see it as Vega. Vega is to bulky, and imo is an okay squadmate, but nothing more. If anything it could be Shepard, or that of a new human, but if this takes place after an ending, or endings/squeal from ME3, then it is all up for debate.

[Bardox9]

No they weren't. When Shepard is up and moving, you can clearly see bodies. There's even one soldier still alive for a few seconds.

That is during the start of the dream sequence. The second Shepard begins to stir after being shot by Harbinger, it is a dream. Look at the soldiers running down the hill side prior to Shepard being blasted. You can stand there forever and Harbinger will not shoot you. The instant the beam hits them, they just disappear. No bodies. No nothing. No one survives a blast from that canon... except for Shepard....lucky....

 

Everything in the above can be explained by one of the following:

 

-bug

-oversight

-lack of resources

-you not having your facts straight.

Or...

-not a bug but planned

-not an over sight but intentional

-not lack of resources, but symbolism of Shepard's subconscious

-tell me what part of what I said that isn't directly observable in the scenes.

 

It's a dream sequence. Another series of indoctrination attempts. You can even hear Reaper groans in the back ground.

 

Harbinger could have vaporized Shepard, but didn't. It could have shot down the Normandy, but didn't. Why? It is directly over Shepard. If Harbinger had shot the ship, it's pieces would have fallen on Shepard. Harbinger wants Shepard indoctrinated, not killed. Don't know why Harbinger has such a hard on for Shepard, but from ME2 on it does. The three choice at the end only matter in the sense of whether or not Shepard gives into to indoctrination(control or synthesis) or resists (destroy or refuse). It does not effect the Citadel, Crucible, or anything else.

[dorktainian]

i like this human.  he understands.

That is during the start of the dream sequence. The second Shepard begins to stir after being shot by Harbinger, it is a dream. Look at the soldiers running down the hill side prior to Shepard being blasted. You can stand there forever and Harbinger will not shoot you. The instant the beam hits them, they just disappear. No bodies. No nothing. No one survives a blast from that canon... except for Shepard....lucky....

 

Or...

-not a bug but planned

-not an over sight but intentional

-not lack of resources, but symbolism of Shepard's subconscious

-tell me what part of what I said that isn't directly observable in the scenes.

 

It's a dream sequence. Another series of indoctrination attempts. You can even hear Reaper groans in the back ground.

 

Harbinger could have vaporized Shepard, but didn't. It could have shot down the Normandy, but didn't. Why? It is directly over Shepard. If Harbinger had shot the ship, it's pieces would have fallen on Shepard. Harbinger wants Shepard indoctrinated, not killed. Don't know why Harbinger has such a hard on for Shepard, but from ME2 on it does. The three choice at the en only matter in the sense of whether or not Shepard gives into to indoctrination(control or synthesis) or resists (destroy or refuse). It has no bearing on the Citadel, Crucible, or anything else.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Just watched the E3 trailer. I'm really not getting IT vibes from it at all.

 

After ME3, I don't put anything past BioWare, but I think they'll go the same route they have up to now: humor IT, but never confirm it. Give 'em enough fodder to let the idea persist, while going another direction in reality.

 

(... would I be the only person that sees the irony there)?

[masster blaster]

 Just watched the E3 trailer. I'm really not getting IT vibes from it at all.

 

After ME3, I don't put anything past BioWare, but I think they'll go the same route they have up to now: humor IT, but never confirm it. Give 'em enough fodder to let the idea persist, while going another direction in reality.

 

(... would I be the only person that sees the irony there)?

Maybe. Still haven't placed any money on anything about ME, and the DA:I edition price is to much. So nothing good right now for Bioware from what I see. Still they could be playing both sides to appeal to the fans, yet that wouldn't surprise me, yet i won't pay for it until actual game play is shown and a story is laid out.

 

Wasn't that much a a trailer, more like Casey and Mac just talking and showing prototype art work, and bits of game shots.

[masster blaster]

That is during the start of the dream sequence. The second Shepard begins to stir after being shot by Harbinger, it is a dream. Look at the soldiers running down the hill side prior to Shepard being blasted. You can stand there forever and Harbinger will not shoot you. The instant the beam hits them, they just disappear. No bodies. No nothing. No one survives a blast from that canon... except for Shepard....lucky....

 

Or...

-not a bug but planned

-not an over sight but intentional

-not lack of resources, but symbolism of Shepard's subconscious

-tell me what part of what I said that isn't directly observable in the scenes.

 

It's a dream sequence. Another series of indoctrination attempts. You can even hear Reaper groans in the back ground.

 

Harbinger could have vaporized Shepard, but didn't. It could have shot down the Normandy, but didn't. Why? It is directly over Shepard. If Harbinger had shot the ship, it's pieces would have fallen on Shepard. Harbinger wants Shepard indoctrinated, not killed. Don't know why Harbinger has such a hard on for Shepard, but from ME2 on it does. The three choice at the end only matter in the sense of whether or not Shepard gives into to indoctrination(control or synthesis) or resists (destroy or refuse). It does not effect the Citadel, Crucible, or anything else.

Now that is a good point. Harbinger is the very thing that makes the whole ending feel out of place. letting Shepard live, the Normandy live, and that of the events that come after is what makes no sense. Sure you could say plot armor, but i believe that is not the case. And though Shepard can still die at the end before Shepard reaches the chamber, it just means Shepard didn't have the strength to carry on. you die from the overwhelming Reaper Indoctrination, and perish in the rubble Harbinger put you in.

[israeln87]

"post-EC, a historically dishonest rep from BioWare's historically dishonest PR team says IT is still a valid interpretation despite EC showing otherwise"

 

I've been thinking... Let's suppose IT is correct.

After Shepard has been hit by the Harbinger's beam is about his imagination, when we choose to destroy the reaper is everything happening in his mind. I meant... Ok. When he get back to the real life, those reapers will still be there. Right?

 

So... If the indocrination theory is correct and we were suppose to choose "Destroy the Reapers". Can we figure out that... Shepard is still alive, as the final cutscene lead us to think, those reapers are still around there, and the ME4 will be about, or at least starts, with Shepard still fighting the reapers on earth?

[Bardox9]

"post-EC, a historically dishonest rep from BioWare's historically dishonest PR team says IT is still a valid interpretation despite EC showing otherwise"

 

I've been thinking... Let's suppose IT is correct.

After Shepard has been hit by the Harbinger's beam is about his imagination, when we choose to destroy the reaper is everything happening in his mind. I meant... Ok. When he get back to the real life, those reapers will still be there. Right?

 

So... If the indocrination theory is correct and we were suppose to choose "Destroy the Reapers". Can we figure out that... Shepard is still alive, as the final cutscene lead us to think, those reapers are still around there, and the ME4 will be about, or at least starts, with Shepard still fighting the reapers on earth?

 

Under the IT, yes. Everything that happens after the flash of Harbingers beam is a dream sequence. Even the Star Gazer bit after the credits is part of the dream. The Citadel never opened, the Crucible never fired, and the Reapers were never defeated at the point ME3 ends.

 

Who the hell knows where ME4 starts. The E3 preview was vague to the point of saying nothing. They just put up a few generic pictures and talked about the neat-o things the new consoles would let the concept-art teams do. Judging by the E3 video, ME4 could start from Shepard waking up on the SR1's medlab table after the whammy the Eden Prime Beacon put on him and the entire trilogy was his "vision". Or hundreds of years after the events of ME3 when some random soldier stumbles across one of Liara's time capsules.

[AlanC9]

 Just watched the E3 trailer. I'm really not getting IT vibes from it at all.
 
After ME3, I don't put anything past BioWare, but I think they'll go the same route they have up to now: humor IT, but never confirm it. Give 'em enough fodder to let the idea persist, while going another direction in reality.
 
(... would I be the only person that sees the irony there)?

No, you would not.

[shepskisaac]

Wait. Don't tell me E3 teaser somehow gave IT fans new fuel like... how?

[masster blaster]

Wait. Don't tell me E3 teaser somehow gave IT fans new fuel like... how?

We just speculate that is all. Plus not much a a teaser trailer, more like a " What we plan to do, and the new project they are working on",

 

Mainly how the human has N7 armor, and the face is still covered, and despite how Bioware tells the fans Shepard is done, it does not mean their plans could change, after all they did say " plans change". It is just speculations that is all. no need to confirm or say otherwise.

 

Plus the concept art, and a few other things.

[the_last_krogan]

i still believe

[masster blaster]

Theories are Theories &

Facts are Facts but

This Theory is Not A Fact!

Okay and? a theory has supporting evidence to back it up. Each to everyone's own opinion that is.

[TurianRebel212]

Yes. Have since the beginning. 

[TurianRebel212]

The indoctrination theory is what got me into MEU but it just seems a bit over speculated & analyzed. What makes Shepard so important that Harbinger must indoctrinate him? If TIM was really under the reapers control why order him to bring back Shepard? If we are really indoctrinated why doesn't harbinger just assume control of us? In project overlord David did that to us so why not Harbinger?

 

Anomaly... Superior code. 2162. Nazara. Leviathan. "Reaper"??? Legion. Harbinger. "Sovereign". 

 

 

Shepard. 

 

Arca Monolith. Lazarus. Revenant. 

 

Shepard. 

 

Shepard. 

 

Beacons. Shepard. 

 

Cipher. Shepard. 

 

Collectors. Shepard

 

Human Proto Reaper... Missing a KEY component. 

 

 

KEY..

 

Anomaly... Rouge. Unique. 

 

A Warrior. A fighter. A Broker of alliances of nations.....

 

 

An agent of CHANGE....

 

 

 

A...

 

 

 

 

Catalyst. 

[masster blaster]

The indoctrination theory is what got me into MEU but it just seems a bit over speculated & analyzed. What makes Shepard so important that Harbinger must indoctrinate him? If TIM was really under the reapers control why order him to bring back Shepard? If we are really indoctrinated why doesn't harbinger just assume control of us? In project overlord David did that to us so why not Harbinger?

Shepard has done the impossible. The first organic, and now half synthetic to have forced the Reapers plans back. Shepard is a symbol of hope for the galaxy's future, since as the story progress Shepard can bring the galaxy together. Not to mention Shepard inspires others to follow him/her into what ever situation he/she may face. Having Shepard on the Reapers side is a huge insult to the galaxy. Sure killing Shepard would bring hurt to everyone, but Shepard would become a symbol for all, that he/she gave all to stop the Reapers, where as the Indoctrinated Shepard brings everyone's moral down, for if the galaxy's greatest hero can become indoctrinated, then everyone is doomed.

 

It depends. Many of us believe TIM wasn't under full Reaper control until the end of ME2. He had Reaper implants in him long ago, but were never activated so to speak. Much like a sleeper agent, and a back up plan if anything happens. With the collectors destroyed, Cerberus becomes the Reapers new black ops team.  Overall I don't believe the Reapers had any intent of bringing Shepard back, and that was just Cerberus/TIM doing what is right. However in the end TIM becomes the Reapers slave at the end of ME2.

 

We are not indoctrinated yet, we are undergoing indoctrination. If Harbinger pushed/forced Shepard to become Indoctrinated, Shepard would result into a mindless husk, like the Salerians back on Virmire. they want Shepard intact. Tis true Shepard can die, however the body can still be of use. That and it's a win win for the Reapers. Shepard is dead, or is converted, both benefit the Reapers, only an indoctrinated Shepard is a far more win scenario for them.

[masster blaster]

MattFini, I realized that Restrider, an ITer created a list long ago that basically summarized IT from the supporting evidence. Hereyou go, as well as for the others.

 

----------The Ten Most Important Concepts Supporting The Indoctrination Theory----------

     
        I) Indoctrination in general :

          1.   Regarding IT, Shepard is in the process of indoctrination and the outcome is decided by the final decision taken.
          2.   The concept of indoctrination is a crucial part throughout the trilogy and nothing new to the player (link 1 and 2).
          3.   Rana Thanoptis is an example of how subtle and slow indoctrination can be.
          4.   Shepard was knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated an entire facility.
          5.   Logs on the derelict Reaper and in Arrival (link) illustrate the reactions of victims of indoctrination.
          6.   Paul Grayson's indoctrination show its effects on someone's mind.
          7.   Harbinger's smacktalk (link 1 and 2).

 
       II) The Breath Scene :

          1.   London rubble (link 1 and 2).
          2.   Mako in the background.
          3.   Citadel explosion (link 1 and 2).


    III) The Dreams :
         
          1.   Dream sequences and post-beam sequence share the same game mechanics.
          2.   Reality-nonreality transition after beam shot (post-beam, dreams, Geth Consensus).
          3.   Oily shadows and whispering.
          4.   Nightmares are mentioned in the Arrival by subjects being indoctrinated.
          5.   Chambers and Asari having PTSD as comparison between PTSD & Shepard's dreams.


    IV) Leviathan :

          1.   Harbinger/the Reapers perfected enthrallment to indoctrination.
          2.   Enthrallment uses memories of its victim.
          3.   Similarities between Leviathan end and decision chamber.
          4.   Zap sound as a sign to enter/leave virtual reality (link 1 and 2).


     V) The Choices :

          1.   Shepard on his knees happened only during/after some mind control.
          2.   The Guardian is aligned to the Reapers.
          3.   Control and Synthesis being supported by indoctrinated characters.
          4.   A swap in the colours (TIM = Paragon; Anderson = Renegade).
          5.   Huskification during Control/Synthesis vs. Shepard gaining strength while shooting the tubes.
          6.   Guardian losing it when you refuse ("SO BE IT!").
          7.   Decision chamber looks like a dialogue wheel from an aerial view.
          8.   Decision chamber resembling beam scenery (link 1 and 2).
          9.   Ambiguous end dialogue (Control/Synthesis).
        10.   Slide shows in Control/Synthesis/Destroy illustrate future possibilities, not facts that already happened.
        11.   Soldiers in Destroy fighting fiercely while in Control/Synthesis they are losing (note: no cheering in Synthesis).


    VI) The Kid :

         1.   Moves from one roof to another during an invasion (all links).
         2.   It can open a door that is marked as locked.
         3.   It survives a blast from a Reaper laser.
         4.   It is not seen by anyone else.
         5.   There always are warning symbols around it.
         6.   It disappears without making any noise.
         7.   It does not behave like a normal kid ("You cannot save me!").
         8.   The Guardian has the same form as the kid.


   VII) Anderson & TIM :

         1.   How did Anderson follow Shepard?
         2.   How can Anderson reach the control first?
         3.   Why did no one else follow Anderson?
         4.   From where did TIM shows up?
         5.   TIM's scars are only present at the end of the game.
         6.   Anderson may be addressing Shepard ("They are controlling you!").
         7.   Shepard is dominated by TIM and thus through him by the Reapers.
         8.   Anderson and Shepard have wounds at the same place (link 1 and 2).
         9.   Reaper horn played in the background (at 1/2 speed).
       10.   The EMS requirements depend on Anderson's fate in the confrontation with TIM.


  VIII) The Guardian :

         1.   It has the same shape as the kid ( thus an extraction of Shepard's memories).
         2.   It speaks with femshep's and maleshep's voice.
         3.   Harbinger's line in the MP trailer (link 1 and 2).
         4.   The Guardian is a liar regardless of the interpretation of the endings.


    IX) The Beam Run :

        1.   Harbinger is pin-pointing everyone and everything but Shepard.
        2.   Harbinger does not destroy the Normandy.
        3.   Shepard survives a blast that should one-shot Makos and Gunships.
        4.   Harbinger just leaves.


     X) The Citadel :

        1.   The Citadel resembles events of the past.
        2.   You can find Coats dead on the Citadel.

 

special thanks to Restrider.

 

lol going to have to fix half of the links XD

[shepskisaac]

We just speculate that is all. Plus not much a a teaser trailer, more like a " What we plan to do, and the new project they are working on",

 

Mainly how the human has N7 armor, and the face is still covered, and despite how Bioware tells the fans Shepard is done, it does not mean their plans could change, after all they did say " plans change". It is just speculations that is all. no need to confirm or say otherwise.

 

Plus the concept art, and a few other things.

No, if there's 1 certain thing is that plans for not having Shepard back would never ever change. Even if the ending was perfect and fans praised ME3 to the heavens, they would never do 4th game with the same transferred character and even bigger mess of variables.

[masster blaster]

No, if there's 1 certain thing is that plans for not having Shepard back would never ever change. Even if the ending was perfect and fans praised ME3 to the heavens, they would never do 4th game with the same transferred character and even bigger mess of variables.

We have no idea what they plan, just speculations. We can tell each other otherwise but it's Bioware's call. If they really want to have Shepard out of the picture then they should already show the new character's face, and explain why the human has N7 armor on. They keep using Shepard for the talks about the new ME game, which is most likely marketing tacit, yet it could mean Shepard may have something to do with ME4, don't know. Still speculations and nothing more.