Aller au contenu

Photo

Recruit Jowan as a Warden


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
12 réponses à ce sujet

#1
ShadowLordXII

ShadowLordXII
  • Members
  • 1 238 messages

As Gaider has stated himself in this post: http://social.biowar...250603/3#255320, "Jowan was planned to be another full party companions. The Warden would have used the Right of Conscription to recruit him after Arl Eamon was healed. However, this was cut very early in the game's development."

 

Let's say that developers didn't cut Jowan and we could've recruited him and even made him a warden, would you actually conscript Jowan or leave him to Eamon's judgement?

 

Despite everything, I'd be likely to recruit him if I had a chance. True, he did poison Arl Eamon and he is a Blood Mage. But ultimately, it seems like Jowan was merely dealt a bad hand across all accounts.

 

Let's see, his parents despised him for being a mage, and he only broke his phylactery because of an understandable fear of being lobotomized and he later only resorted to blood magic to protect the Chantry Initiate that he loved (who ironically and ungratefully ditched him out of fear). He runs away and is nearly caught until Loghain intervenes.

 

Based on dialogue from Jowan himself, Loghain pretty much gave Jowan the idea that poisoning Arl Eamon was a good thing and would serve Ferelden's greater interests. Considering that Jowan had a very limited exposure to the outside world and particularly it's politics, Jowan would've had no way of knowing that Loghain was lying to him to use him until it was too late. So Jowan takes advantage of Isolde's stupidity and tutors Connor in basic magic while finding a chance to poison Eamon which believes is a good action.

 

Isolde finds out and rightfully imprisons him, but after Connor becomes possessed, Isolde starts outright torturing and mistreating Jowan even after he's told her everything that he knows and stays there for at least one month if not a whole year while Redcliffe's situation deteriorates. When the Warden finds him, he doesn't beg for his life if you decide to kill him and will actually come to aid the Warden save Connor later on either with the Blood Ritual or by going into the Fade himself if the Circle is recruited.

 

He is guilty of several crimes, no question of that. He's a runaway Blood mage who poisoned a member of nobility.

 

However, he only resorted to blood magic to protect/save others and was honestly a pawn rather than the chessmaster like Loghain acting under false information meant to ensure his compliance. He'll also use his magic to protect refugees if you tell him never to come back and he is genuinely remorseful and repentant of his actions.

 

Being recruited either as a normal party member or as a Grey Warden is a second chance for him to do some real no-strings attached good and an earlier example of a blood mage who isn't evil proving that magic is only evil when used for evil. Plus Riorden's argument for having as many wardens as possible since there's only less than 5 has more of a logical application and context to this situation.



#2
Guest_StreetMagic_*

Guest_StreetMagic_*
  • Guests

I wonder if it was so early in development that they hadn't thought of Morrigan yet. Maybe they were mulling over different ways to have an apostate in the group.

 

Because if that's the case, better to have Jowan as he is. Morrigan filled the role nicely. While Wynne and mage Warden had other bases covered.



#3
Wulfram

Wulfram
  • Members
  • 18 950 messages

I'd probably recruit him because I give most potential companions a chance.  But that's metagaming.

 

Putting that aside and trying to get in character, in the game as written he doesn't really show my Wardens much that marks him as a potential warden.  Though likely some of that would have been written differently if he was intended as a member - at the least I'd guess that there'd be an option to have him join the party when you first meet him, rather than him refusing to come with the party.

 

And if my Warden was a mage, well, he learnt blood magic and lied about it to them.  Not a good basis for trust



#4
Guest_StreetMagic_*

Guest_StreetMagic_*
  • Guests

I always see him as the full retard version of my own mage Warden. He even has a redhead chantry girlfriend named Lily to go with my Warden and Leliana. lol

 

So in short, no, I don't see him as a Warden either. I just see him as the mage origin character that he is - a kind of warning to not be as he was. Every origin has it's lowpoints. Tamlen, Howe, etc.. That's all Jowan is to me.



#5
mousestalker

mousestalker
  • Members
  • 16 945 messages

Jowan used blood magic to scarper when confronted in the Tower. He abandoned Lily and the PC to take the fall. Also, every other mage choice is better than him in the Fade. Irving, Wynne, Morrigan and the PC all typically have better spell selections. He is the mage equivalent of Cammen.

 

Quite frankly he's a character I rather despise. He is whiny. The one thing he does do right is he dies well.


  • theskymoves et Blazomancer aiment ceci

#6
sylvanaerie

sylvanaerie
  • Members
  • 9 436 messages

Actually OP, Jowan didn't resort to blood magic to 'protect/save others'.  After the Connor situation has been resolved, and you tell Teagan you will execute him yourself, you can talk to Jowan.  You can ask him why he turned to blood magic (only if you are a mage yourself).  He will tell you he did it out of jealousy of the Warden.  He 'thought blood magic would make him a better mage'.  

 

As to recruiting him?  Jowan is a selfish idiot who leaves Lily and the PC holding the bag (regardless of whether you turned him in to Irving or helped him outright).  His original plan didn't account for what would happen to the PC if he and Lily had been able to escape.  Dialogues with both show elements of what their relationship would have been.  Lily hates/despises the very magic that fascinates Jowan.  He wouldn't be able to resist the allure of magic, and she would end up despising him for it. 

 

I know he ends up helping people and I suppose even a nimrod like him can learn from his mistakes, but that quest is bugged and I never got it to trigger the one time I released him from Eamon's dungeon (on an Amell who despised the Chantry, the Circle and the oppression of mages).


  • mousestalker, theskymoves et DarthGizka aiment ceci

#7
DarthGizka

DarthGizka
  • Members
  • 867 messages

FWIW, the blood mage whom you can recruit during the Broken Circle was apparently supposed to become a party member. The scripts contain code that sends her to camp.

 

That way you could make a full mage party without Jowan.



#8
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

Guest_starlitegirlx_*
  • Guests

I would have recruited him.



#9
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

Guest_starlitegirlx_*
  • Guests

Actually OP, Jowan didn't resort to blood magic to 'protect/save others'.  After the Connor situation has been resolved, and you tell Teagan you will execute him yourself, you can talk to Jowan.  You can ask him why he turned to blood magic (only if you are a mage yourself).  He will tell you he did it out of jealousy of the Warden.  He 'thought blood magic would make him a better mage'.  

 

As to recruiting him?  Jowan is a selfish idiot who leaves Lily and the PC holding the bag (regardless of whether you turned him in to Irving or helped him outright).  His original plan didn't account for what would happen to the PC if he and Lily had been able to escape.  Dialogues with both show elements of what their relationship would have been.  Lily hates/despises the very magic that fascinates Jowan.  He wouldn't be able to resist the allure of magic, and she would end up despising him for it. 

 

I know he ends up helping people and I suppose even a nimrod like him can learn from his mistakes, but that quest is bugged and I never got it to trigger the one time I released him from Eamon's dungeon (on an Amell who despised the Chantry, the Circle and the oppression of mages).

 

I never saw this dialouge. I usually believe how he says it was just because he was afraid he would fail the harrowing. I really believe all the crap he says. Next run as a mage I will kill him myself and get that dialogue. Had no idea the depths of his nastiness.


  • Tommy6860 aime ceci

#10
Tommy6860

Tommy6860
  • Members
  • 2 488 messages

I never saw this dialouge. I usually believe how he says it was just because he was afraid he would fail the harrowing. I really believe all the crap he says. Next run as a mage I will kill him myself and get that dialogue. Had no idea the depths of his nastiness.

 

Me either and I played this game through more times than I can remember. I also do not think Jowan ran off for Lily and the Warden to take the fall. Although he hid his dabbling in blood magic from Lily, which was totally anathema to her, he only used it to help prevent her from being taken to The Aeonar for abetting Jowan (as Greagoir alluded as punishment for her involvement) in destroying his phylactery, so the two lovers could escape to live out their lives together. Once he exposed himself to Lily as a blood mage, and a liar in attempts to protect her, she outright rejected him on any level and (IMO) he left the scene in a very despondent state. Had Jowan been so selfish, I don't think he would have offered to correct further wrongs he committed at the castle in Redcliffe for helping Isolde with her son, Connor.


  • Aurelet, ShadowLordXII et DarthGizka aiment ceci

#11
Riverdaleswhiteflash

Riverdaleswhiteflash
  • Members
  • 7 933 messages

I never saw this dialouge. I usually believe how he says it was just because he was afraid he would fail the harrowing. I really believe all the crap he says. Next run as a mage I will kill him myself and get that dialogue. Had no idea the depths of his nastiness.

That's not so nasty. I haven't seen that dialogue either, but it doesn't seem actively malevolent. He's not trying to steal his power from the Warden or use it against him/her or anything.



#12
General TSAR

General TSAR
  • Members
  • 4 384 messages

He's an easily manipulated (and manipulative) tool as far as I'm concerned and far too dangerous to live. 



#13
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 850 messages

FWIW, the blood mage whom you can recruit during the Broken Circle was apparently supposed to become a party member. The scripts contain code that sends her to camp.

 

That way you could make a full mage party without Jowan.

 

Really? That would've been interesting. I wouldn't want Jowan as a party member. Aside from the other shenanigans, he just doesn't seem interesting. I prefer him to simply fight the demons in the fade, then face execution or tranquility.