321 réponses à ce sujet

[dshoub]

I've been replaying Origins lately and I decided to start a new campaign as a female city elf, something which besides doing the origin for, I've never done because I normally always play human males.

 

So now I'm in Ostagar and I'm stuck, but not stuck as far as the game goes, rather I'm stuck about how I want to play the character. I was totally going with the anti-human angle (I mean she's a city elf so humans have been jerks to her, and then one raped her cousin and also tried to rape her) but then I meet Alistair and it's like dude, how can I be mean to that guy? He's so damn likeable. I can't help but like the doofus and I feel bad being mean to him. Arg, why does he have to be so frickin affable? I like to get into the story and play each character a specific way but damn if I can't help but want to be nice to him. I might as well try and kick a puppy, I just can't bring myself to do it. So irritating lol.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I think Steve Valentine's performance is largely responsible, maybe moreso than the writing.

[ShadowLordXII]

He's just a funny, no strings attached good person who isn't out to harm anyone (Apart from darkspawn and Loghain).

[Ferretinabun]

I salute your determination to roleplay, but in this case your angst can be your character's angst. Maybe your elf is similarly conflicted over Alistair. My favourite wardens have been ones who underwent a personal story arc and changed their attitudes and opinions over the course of the story.

[Dutchess]

Haha, my elven mage disliked him at first as well, what with him almost becoming a templar. When she learned he was a king's son she decided to make an effort to wrap him around her finger. Then she fell in love herself as well. 

[Tommy6860]

Alistair is  great character. But, unfortunately for me, I had already had him colored in perception in my few play-throughs of the game before engaging him as a non-human PC myself. I do however, find him immensely humorous and after a few runs of engaging him, I found that making him mad was more fun than engaging him personally, through his emotional state as I came to know him. Keep in mind that I nearly always played a female character, so I dove deep into that as a male myself when considering my choices.

[sylvanaerie]

I had the same dilemma my first time out as a City elf.  Thought I'd romance Zevran, hate humans etc.  Then I got to Ostagar and here was Alistair acting all sweet and goofy, saying David Gaider's lines in Steve Valentine's remarkable voice and I fell hard all over again.

 

Sweet, goofy and funny are my kryptonite 

[Xilizhra]

My CE left that place earlier because everyone after the origin is nice to her: Duncan, Cailan, even Loghain is respectful... Ostagar is like a completely different world from Denerim.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 While I liked Alistair well enough and never act rudely to him, I had a tough time with him because he just about always opposed the decisions I made. Can't help but see him as a Duncan holdover (not hand-picked by me like the rest were), and typically feel it's for the best when I swap him out for Loghain. Nothing personal, truly, he's just not a fit for how I operate.

 

Strangely, I never seem to have that problem with Leliana, though on paper she shouldn't be any more agreeable. Then again, you can build up approval from her just by accepting side-quests, which adds up. Throw in some gifts, and she's golden.

[DarthGizka]

What makes Leliana so amazing is that she's the real deal. She doesn't have to pretend to be something that she's not, she doesn't have to hide insecurities behind professed certainties. She can afford to be genuinely curious when she discusses questions of faith with Morrigan instead of feeling threatened and going defensive. She doesn't have to use platitudes and smart-aleck evasion as a shield.

 

Well, that and her phantastic voice actor who brings her to life as the genuine article.

 

Alistair reminds me of some people I know in RL, who try very hard to think what they think they ought to think, until they convinced themselves that, yes, their wild years are behind them and what they truly want and what makes them really, really happy is to be the perfect husband, father, believer or whatnot. Until the slightest amount of pressure is brought to bear. Then the whole house of cards collapses and they disintegrate, jumping straight to the bottom of a bottle. Just like Alistair.

 

The reason is that shallow, superficial attempts at emulating something rarely have significant effect. If there is a discrepancy between what we are (feel, want) and what we believe we ought to be then we have to look deep and grow; something has to change until the discrepancy is gone. If won't happen overnight but resolve can bridge that gap. Pretence resolves nothing and prevents growth.

 

That reminds me of my little brother in his early teens, when he thought that sweeping was about waving a broom around in a manner resembling what he had seen, and that washing up consisted in getting the dishes wet and farting around with a cloth. He had completely missed the point about removing dirt, and consequently everything was just as dirty after as it had been before.

 

At the surface, Alistair is lawful good. But beneath the surface he is just a spoilt little boy, shallow and totally self-centred. Since his 'convictions' go only skin-deep they can be discarded in the blink of an eye if he is not given his toy. Be it tent-time with the Warden or the immediate demise of Loghain, right then and there at the Landsmeet.

 

That's the big difference between Leliana and Alistair. It is easy to respect and like Leliana without reserve, even if you do not agree with her.

[Mike3207]

What makes Leliana so amazing is that she's the real deal. She doesn't have to pretend to be something that she's not, she doesn't have to hide insecurities behind professed certainties. She can afford to be genuinely curious when she discusses questions of faith with Morrigan instead of feeling threatened and going defensive. She doesn't have to use platitudes and smart-aleck evasion as a shield.

 

Well, that and her phantastic voice actor who brings her to life as the genuine article.

 

Alistair reminds me of some people I know in RL, who try very hard to think what they think they ought to think, until they convinced themselves that, yes, their wild years are behind them and what they truly want and what makes them really, really happy is to be the perfect husband, father, believer or whatnot. Until the slightest amount of pressure is brought to bear. Then the whole house of cards collapses and they disintegrate, jumping straight to the bottom of a bottle. Just like Alistair.

 

The reason is that shallow, superficial attempts at emulating something rarely have significant effect. If there is a discrepancy between what we are (feel, want) and what we believe we ought to be then we have to look deep and grow; something has to change until the discrepancy is gone. If won't happen overnight but resolve can bridge that gap. Pretence resolves nothing and prevents growth.

 

That reminds me of my little brother in his early teens, when he thought that sweeping was about waving a broom around in a manner resembling what he had seen, and that washing up consisted in getting the dishes wet and farting around with a cloth. He had completely missed the point about removing dirt, and consequently everything was just as dirty after as it had been before.

 

At the surface, Alistair is lawful good. But beneath the surface he is just a spoilt little boy, shallow and totally self-centred. Since his 'convictions' go only skin-deep they can be discarded in the blink of an eye if he is not given his toy. Be it tent-time with the Warden or the immediate demise of Loghain, right then and there at the Landsmeet.

 

That's the big difference between Leliana and Alistair. It is easy to respect and like Leliana without reserve, even if you do not agree with her.

What makes you think Leliana is the real deal?She probably never left the Chantry at all. Heck at one point she says-"no more lies, at least in this", which mean she's probably lying about everything else. She's definitely a companion to take with a grain of salt, even if she helps you with the Blight. Heck for all anyone knows, she worked with Marjolaine to convince Howe the Couslands were Orlesian traitors. Work with her, but keep her at arm's length.

 

Alistair-he's a decent enough sort-at least until the Landsmeet.He's got his blind spots, but so does everyone else in the party.

[Shadow Fox]

What makes Leliana so amazing is that she's the real deal. She doesn't have to pretend to be something that she's not, she doesn't have to hide insecurities behind professed certainties. She can afford to be genuinely curious when she discusses questions of faith with Morrigan instead of feeling threatened and going defensive. She doesn't have to use platitudes and smart-aleck evasion as a shield.

 

Well, that and her phantastic voice actor who brings her to life as the genuine article.

 

Alistair reminds me of some people I know in RL, who try very hard to think what they think they ought to think, until they convinced themselves that, yes, their wild years are behind them and what they truly want and what makes them really, really happy is to be the perfect husband, father, believer or whatnot. Until the slightest amount of pressure is brought to bear. Then the whole house of cards collapses and they disintegrate, jumping straight to the bottom of a bottle. Just like Alistair.

 

The reason is that shallow, superficial attempts at emulating something rarely have significant effect. If there is a discrepancy between what we are (feel, want) and what we believe we ought to be then we have to look deep and grow; something has to change until the discrepancy is gone. If won't happen overnight but resolve can bridge that gap. Pretence resolves nothing and prevents growth.

 

That reminds me of my little brother in his early teens, when he thought that sweeping was about waving a broom around in a manner resembling what he had seen, and that washing up consisted in getting the dishes wet and farting around with a cloth. He had completely missed the point about removing dirt, and consequently everything was just as dirty after as it had been before.

 

At the surface, Alistair is lawful good. But beneath the surface he is just a spoilt little boy, shallow and totally self-centred. Since his 'convictions' go only skin-deep they can be discarded in the blink of an eye if he is not given his toy. Be it tent-time with the Warden or the immediate demise of Loghain, right then and there at the Landsmeet.

 

That's the big difference between Leliana and Alistair. It is easy to respect and like Leliana without reserve, even if you do not agree with her.

I can never understand this:

 

Alistair's a spoilt child because he gets upset that a woman led him on and/or you let a murderer escape justice by making him a warden?   

[Corker]

IMO? At a meta-level, Alistair's characterization is strategy to increase tension at the Landsmeet.  The more you like Alistair, the harder it is to spare Loghain.

 

It's not a perfect strategy.  Some people don't like Alistair.  Some people hate Loghain as much as he does.  For those people, to spare or not to spare is never really a question, and the Landsmeet decision isn't a hard one.

 

But if you're playing a traditional white-hat hero, the kind who would grant mercy to a fallen opponent whenever possible (and I suspect that's a pretty common choice in a fantasy epic), then to get caught between that ethic and the claims of duty, loyalty and honor made by your brother-in-arms (and possible LI) can be a classic Bioware choice.  So Alistair is as affable as possible. His humor is self-deprecating, for the most part.  Even when he protests the Warden's actions, he never really gets in the Warden's way (until the Landsmeet).  If you're doing a white-hat playthrough, he'll agree with almost everything you do (and if you're doing a grey or black hat, you may not miss him much at the Landsmeet anyway).  All that makes him easy to like, and makes it harder to spare Loghain - which makes for a more dramatic decision.

[Shadow Fox]

IMO? At a meta-level, Alistair's characterization is strategy to increase tension at the Landsmeet.  The more you like Alistair, the harder it is to spare Loghain.

 

It's not a perfect strategy.  Some people don't like Alistair.  Some people hate Loghain as much as he does.  For those people, to spare or not to spare is never really a question, and the Landsmeet decision isn't a hard one.

 

But if you're playing a traditional white-hat hero, the kind who would grant mercy to a fallen opponent whenever possible (and I suspect that's a pretty common choice in a fantasy epic), then to get caught between that ethic and the claims of duty, loyalty and honor made by your brother-in-arms (and possible LI) can be a classic Bioware choice.  So Alistair is as affable as possible. His humor is self-deprecating, for the most part.  Even when he protests the Warden's actions, he never really gets in the Warden's way (until the Landsmeet).  If you're doing a white-hat playthrough, he'll agree with almost everything you do (and if you're doing a grey or black hat, you may not miss him much at the Landsmeet anyway).  All that makes him easy to like, and makes it harder to spare Loghain - which makes for a more dramatic decision.

I consider my Dalish a "good" character but she was against letting murderers and slavers escape justice*and no this isn't a slight against Loghain fans* hence she executed Zevran,Jowan and let Alistiar kill Loghain.

 

The only murky issue I had was with Sten the guy's a murderer but his punishment seems inhumane and cruel to her and you can't execute him.

[Jaison1986]

I could never execute Zevran now, knowing that his quest in DA2 opens up the Rune of Valiance. Heh

 

Don't forget about finesse. Can't be a rogue without it.

[DarthGizka]

Alistair's a spoilt child because he gets upset that a woman led him on and/or you let a murderer escape justice by making him a warden?   

 

Browse his dialogue in the wiki for "romance initiated" to see what constitutes 'leading him on'. His narcissistic nature also shines through in a lot of the approval changes.

 

As regards Loghain: Alistair simply wants him killed right on the spot, after Loghain has surrendered and the duel is over.

[Mike3207]

I can never understand this:

 

Alistair's a spoilt child because he gets upset that a woman led him on and/or you let a murderer escape justice by making him a warden?   

They let Duncan join. He got to be a Warden because he killed a Warden for a ring and it was the Warden's last request that Duncan take his place in the Wardens. The Wardens don't have any issues with letting murderers join.

 

Also, i think Duncan saved one of the warden recruits from a hanging. The thief, perhaps.

[DarthGizka]

What makes you think Leliana is the real deal?

 

The picture painted by many small low-key and/or involuntary reactions, since these are respectively beneath and beyond voluntary control. And the rare cases where a reaction is revealing per se, like when Alistair drops his mask and shows everyone at the Landsmeet how much he really cares about the Blight and all that.

 

Of course, this means that I am as much influenced by the voice actors' performance as by the actual verbal content. Like whether something rings true or not.