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Why is Alistair so damn likeable?

Débuté par dshoub , mars 22 2014 07:09

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#301
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 01 avril 2014 - 10:53

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I haven't read all this other material that everyone speaks of. From the mention in one of the posts of a series of women, that seemed like a pattern from how it was presented. I guess I just don't have the time to get as deeply involved in all of this as most. I follow what I can glean from in game and rarely read the codex because it's a mess.

 

Does seem like he was not a womanizer though. I don't know about who is mother really is because I'm not even sure Fiona is mentioned in game and I've got to admit, I HATE that stuff isn't mentioned in game and becomes a key point in discussions unless it's part of some DLC I haven't yet played. I just can't even follow some of the things that people bring up here and again, that's annoying. Put it in the game! Same thing happened with ME series. They love to goose up stories outside of the game which I wouldn't mind except then here on the forum all the die hard followers bring up people and events that I keep thinking 'how the hell did I miss that? Was I playing a different game? Was it some side quest I missed? Maybe buried in the codex?' Freakin' annoys me to no end - not that people bring it up so much as where the hell is all this information. It's like discussing a novel at a book club and most of the club has read some other novel that elaborated on the first. And that becomes key point in many of their discussions. Yeah, not liking this at all.


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#302
Jaison1986
Posté 01 avril 2014 - 11:05

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I can relate. Branching out certain characters in other medias like comics and books is fine. But using them to reveal critical information that might even change our opinions of these characters is another thing entirely. I for one, never considered sparing Loghain when I first played. Then I saw the plot of the stolen throne, my opinion of him changed drastically. Same for Isabela after seeing Those who speak.

 

That kind of info is too important to be left out of the game.


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#303
Cobra's_back
Posté 01 avril 2014 - 11:30

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I can relate. Branching out certain characters in other medias like comics and books is fine. But using them to reveal critical information that might even change our opinions of these characters is another thing entirely. I for one, never considered sparing Loghain when I first played. Then I saw the plot of the stolen throne, my opinion of him changed drastically. Same for Isabela after seeing Those who speak.

 

That kind of info is too important to be left out of the game.

 

 

True. It is also a pain to find all the information. I never read comics and now I'm ordering them just to find out more. It would be nice if they just gave it to us. More details should have been shared in the books as well. The books are short reads and the world is full of characters to learn about.


#304
Cobra's_back
Posté 01 avril 2014 - 11:35

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I'm not sure why he would, if he would, or if he did. I'm just pointing out that that's another option open to him, and that we don't yet know he hasn't taken it.

 

If he makes two children out of wedlock with different moms, it is going to look like the guy can't keep his pants on. That isn't going to do much for Marc's image.


#305
Riverdaleswhiteflash
Posté 01 avril 2014 - 11:47

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If he makes two children out of wedlock with different moms, it is going to look like the guy can't keep his pants on. That isn't going to do much for Marc's image.

This is the guy who temporarily abandoned his betrothed when he fell in love with an elf, took her back after murdering that elf in a blind rage, and then impregnated another elf. He impregnated the other elf when he was abandoning his wife's kid, his kingdom, his best friend, and possibly his wife (had she died yet?) on an impulse adventure to The Deep Roads. I'm uncertain how making another kid out of wedlock could make him look all that much worse.


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#306
theskymoves
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 12:01

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This is the guy who temporarily abandoned his betrothed when he fell in love with an elf, took her back after murdering that elf in a blind rage, and then impregnated another elf. He impregnated the other elf when he was abandoning his wife's kid, his kingdom, his best friend, and possibly his wife (had she died yet?) on an impulse adventure to The Deep Roads. I'm uncertain how making another kid out of wedlock could make him look all that much worse.

 The Calling takes place in 9:10 Dragon. Rowan dies in 9:08, IIRC, so yes, she had been dead for ~ two years. (And how did Maric abandon his best friend? Grown-ups are allowed to go places without their besties, even in Ferelden.)

 

And why does everyone condemn Maric for falling in love with Katriel, but no-one does the same re Rowan and Loghain, and their little fling? (I don't even like Maric, but I dislike double standards even more.)


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#307
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 12:14

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True. It is also a pain to find all the information. I never read comics and now I'm ordering them just to find out more. It would be nice if they just gave it to us. More details should have been shared in the books as well. The books are short reads and the world is full of characters to learn about.

 

If it were easily accessed then great. Release it as some part of the game and not in all these other things like comics or whatever. Doesn't really have to be a DLC perse. Perhaps a simple module that updates the game with a few cutscenes and narration might be interesting with perhaps a specific sort of codex where you can easily access other information. If they are going to add details after, I have zero problem with that especially if it fills out the characters and storyline more. I only have a problem with it not being part of the game, and especially how BW does it. This feels like pandering and in a way that players who aren't bothering with it because they are gamers not comic readers or even die hard DA or ME everything get half the info. That's cheap and kind of money grubbing. Do it well and right or don't do it at all. Put something together that keeps all the information available to people Put it in a DLC if you can. Most will buy them. In fact, DLC is exactly where it should be rather than a comic. Just don't bury it in a crappy codex that looks like a two year old threw it together. Some of this stuff could have cut been done with cutscenes. Add them in to the beginning before the games starts if you are telling us about Loghain. I wouldn't mind paying a couple of bucks for that. Just a couple but if it is part of the actual gaming experience then sure. Or add it in game as material you read like Skyrim did quite brilliantly. Then it's still in my game, added to some DLC that might not even have anything to do with it, but in the form of a text you read in the game. But outside the game just makes some of these discussions rather confusing. I mean I have no idea who some of these people are. I know I didn't do ALL the side quests but I was like 'how could I have missed THAT?!'

 

I can relate. Branching out certain characters in other medias like comics and books is fine. But using them to reveal critical information that might even change our opinions of these characters is another thing entirely. I for one, never considered sparing Loghain when I first played. Then I saw the plot of the stolen throne, my opinion of him changed drastically. Same for Isabela after seeing Those who speak.

 

That kind of info is too important to be left out of the game.

 

Exactly. Branch out all they want, but don't use it to expand on a story already done. It's like revisionist history. The loghain stuff especially paints him quite differently. Well, do it in a DLC then. Don't do it in another medium. Put it in a DLC like awakening where you are playing as Maric or something. Make it work that way and you see a different perspective. Have that be a prelude to a new game start. That would actually be quite clever and enticing. You still will start your game as you have, but when you start a new game you choose the DLC to play that first then you have a team with loghain and Maric and whomever else is on it. Make it like Awakening. That would absolutely work. Except the problems is they want what they get from the comic because it's cheap and easy, but they don't want to do it right as part of the game. Well then the comics should not entail anything that would change opinions of the story or character. It should expand upon it but in a way that doesn't now shift things within the game.


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#308
Riverdaleswhiteflash
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 12:22

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 The Calling takes place in 9:10 Dragon. Rowan dies in 9:08, IIRC, so yes, she had been dead for ~ two years. (And how did Maric abandon his best friend? Grown-ups are allowed to go places without their besties, even in Ferelden.)

 

And why does everyone condemn Maric for falling in love with Katriel, but no-one does the same re Rowan and Loghain, and their little fling? (I don't even like Maric, but I dislike double standards even more.)

Wasn't Rowan's thing with Loghain after Maric started with Katriel, and in response to it? (I haven't read the book, so I'll admit I could in fact be wrong there. Also note that I'm only half-heartedly pointing out the context either way: you could still very easily find that Loghain and Rowan weren't much better than Maric and Katriel.)

 

I'll give you the abandoning Loghain bit, but what about leaving his kingdom while adventuring in a dangerous darkspawn infested ruin? Even if the Wardens had been on the level, that could easily have gone wrong.


#309
Cobra's_back
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 02:40

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Wasn't Rowan's thing with Loghain after Maric started with Katriel, and in response to it? (I haven't read the book, so I'll admit I could in fact be wrong there. Also note that I'm only half-heartedly pointing out the context either way: you could still very easily find that Loghain and Rowan weren't much better than Maric and Katriel.)

 

I'll give you the abandoning Loghain bit, but what about leaving his kingdom while adventuring in a dangerous darkspawn infested ruin? Even if the Wardens had been on the level, that could easily have gone wrong.

 

Katriel is his first love. She was also a pro. She went into his room and seduced him. He was never in love with Rowan. They were close friends and he was expected to marry her but he never had those feelings for her. He is naive insecure but a very caring young man. An example of being caring: Early in the book The Stone throne he told Loghain's father to turn him over so that the camp wouldn't be attacked. He was willing to die for them. 

 

 

Your question: "Wasn't Rowan's thing with Loghain after Maric started with Katriel, and in response to it?"

 

Actually Loghain was in love with Rowan when he first met her. Rowan thought she wanted Marc, but in the deep road she did fall in love with Loghain.

 

Loghain after the deep roads told Rowan she needed to go Marc. After Rowan falls in love with Loghain, he pushes her to Marc. This Loghain did for the sake of the country.

 

In the Calling Marc went with the wardens because he probably never felt happy being a King. He was raised moving from one location to another with his mom the Rebel Queen. Rowan was already dead. Being King wasn't easy for him. He was serving his people. Going with the wardens was a chance to get away.

 

Fiona and Marc became lovers. She had a baby boy who she gave to Duncan. Duncan bought the boy to the King. There are no other lovers in the books.

 

I wasn't surprised when Alistair said that Duncan was the only person who care about what he wanted. Duncan was a father figure to Alistair. 

 

Let's look at his age. Fiona gave birth to a boy after the deep road. How did Marc fit another woman and child in this?  According to World of Thedas, Alistair was born in 9:10 Dragon.


#310
Cobra's_back
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 03:03

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This is the guy who temporarily abandoned his betrothed when he fell in love with an elf, took her back after murdering that elf in a blind rage, and then impregnated another elf. He impregnated the other elf when he was abandoning his wife's kid, his kingdom, his best friend, and possibly his wife (had she died yet?) on an impulse adventure to The Deep Roads. I'm uncertain how making another kid out of wedlock could make him look all that much worse.

Marc was betrothed as a child. It wasn't his choice.

 

The Elf was executed. Marc was setup by Loghain. Loghain didn't tell him the whole truth. Loghain didn't want Marc to give up the throne for the Elf. The Elf was a spy and she almost got all of his troops killed. Loghain had Marc backed in a corner on this one. It was technically an execution. Loghain was committed to getting Marc on the throne. Loghain knew the rebels would not follow Marc if he let the Elf go. 

 

In the Calling, He didn't abandon his kid. He was planning on coming back. The kid had a nurse maid. Rowan was already dead. If you read the books, you'll see where they are going with this character. Heartless womanizer is not what David had in mind.


#311
Orihime
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 03:35

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Because he is such a awkward flirt and his voice <3 hehe

 

 

his hair and his smile and how cute he can be x3


#312
Xetykins
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 06:56

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This is the guy who temporarily abandoned his betrothed when he fell in love with an elf, took her back after murdering that elf in a blind rage, and then impregnated another elf. He impregnated the other elf when he was abandoning his wife's kid, his kingdom, his best friend, and possibly his wife (had she died yet?) on an impulse adventure to The Deep Roads. I'm uncertain how making another kid out of wedlock could make him look all that much worse.


You should really read The Stolen Throne and The Calling before you color Maric that way. It will also tell you why he had to go to deep roads.
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#313
Riverdaleswhiteflash
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 07:22

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You should really read The Stolen Throne and The Calling before you color Maric that way. It will also tell you why he had to go to deep roads.

He had to?


#314
Xetykins
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 07:42

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As I said read them. I particularly loved The Calling as there were a good few characters in there that I would have loved to meet in game :-) The guy wih the mabari was my absolute fave.
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#315
tartan-princess
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 08:17

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I think we can all agree on that Maric is not actually 'Father-of-the-year'-Award material...


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#316
DarthGizka
Posté 02 avril 2014 - 01:30

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If they are going to add details after, I have zero problem with that especially if it fills out the characters and storyline more. I only have a problem with it not being part of the game, and especially how BW does it.

 

The game contains a lot more lore and background than The Stolen Throne and The Calling combined (it is almost like a TES game in that regard). The books read mostly like write-ups of NWN/DAO dungeon crawls*, complete with a feature rundown for newly introduced units (ogre: hurl, slam, quake). At a guess they probably are lumps of recycled game material that was inflated to paperback word count.

Some of the minor characters are interesting and memorable, like Rowan, Katriel, Fiona, and Kell with his dog Hafter. Most other characters - including the supposed protagonists - remain curiously forgettable most of the time, barring some rare exceptions. Like young Maric killing an armed assailant by bashing his head in with a stone, which is described in excruciating detail à la Stephen King. Or, later when Maric alistairs Katriel (probably because Gaider wouldn't have known what to do with her had she lived).

A lot of stuff gets dragged in by the hair, probably to establish it on record and to cover some gaps, and often the bounds of plausibility get stretched beyond breaking. That makes the books really tedious. They do give a bit of background colour but no background information, because that was screened out, disowned or ignored.

I would have expected a lot more from the guy who wrote HK-47 and Deekin, arguably two of the most memorable characters of all time.

*) the uninspired variety, like Witch Hunt where Barkspawn's reappearance and Ariane's banter are the only highlights ("Your dog is lecturing me again!")


#317
gottaloveme
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 12:42

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Alistair is there for you warden. Always got your back. And doesn't romanced warden say somewhere that Al is a goofball but her goofball? Have tried to fob him off just to see how it plays out - can't.


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#318
Peer of the Empire
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 08:22

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Alistair is a loser.  I constantly strove to send him off on errands and keep him out of the party.  It is regrettable that he is one of the few fighters


#319
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 08:42

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Alistair is a loser.  I constantly strove to send him off on errands and keep him out of the party.  It is regrettable that he is one of the few fighters

 

Well, Alistair is forced because of the landsmeet. He is plot armored until that point when all bets are off. If you hate him just stick it to him by making loghain a warden.


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#320
Ryzaki
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 11:00

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XD I had a CE that disliked Alistair but she hated Loghain much more.

 

Better the devil you know and all that.


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#321
Cobra's_back
Posté 05 avril 2014 - 03:38

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I think we can all agree on that Maric is not actually 'Father-of-the-year'-Award material...

 

 

Actually, I feel I should apologize. I couldn’t remember everything about Marc in the Stolen Thone. I just started reading it again because I ordered the comic to see if Alistair finds his father.
 
OMG I forgot Marc slept with the Elf and he didn’t even know her. This guy has zero will. I had remembered that he was insecure but cared about the rebels and people of Ferelden. I forgot they didn't talk much or build a relationship before he slept with her. I can’t see this guy as a well thought out character. If he was suppose to be sensitive then why is he dropping his pants for a stranger.
 
I must have read it before because I was just interested in getting some history or background information. It is easy to question whether this guy can keep his pants on even though the book only talks about three women. His character doesn't make sense. Alistair at least for 3/4 of the game does.

#322
Shadow Fox
Posté 05 avril 2014 - 07:39

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I think we can all agree on that Maric is not actually 'Father-of-the-year'-Award material...

That's for damn sure.


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