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Why is Alistair so damn likeable?


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#26
Shadow Fox

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Browse his dialogue in the wiki for "romance initiated" to see what constitutes 'leading him on'. His narcissistic nature also shines through in a lot of the approval changes.

 

As regards Loghain: Alistair simply wants him killed right on the spot, after Loghain has surrendered and the duel is over.

I did pretty much all of them clearly indicate the Warden sees him as more then a friend.

 

Of-course he does, it's his only chance to see justice done for the murder of his friends and family instead of seeing the man be white-washed as a hero if he joins the wardens.

 

neither make him a "spoiled brat" they make him human.


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#27
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I did pretty much all of them clearly indicate the Warden sees him as more then a friend.

 

Of-course he does, it's his only chance to see justice done for the murder of his friends and family instead of seeing the man be white-washed as a hero if he joins the wardens.

 

neither make him a "spoiled brat" they make him human.

 

Justice would better be served if Loghain had time to realize just how lame being a Warden is. What sacrifices people like Duncan had to go through to protect people from the darkspawn. If you kill him, he'll never realize what he did, what the Wardens truly are, and what they gave up for everyone. He needs a hard lesson in this. That would be true justice.

 

This is something Alistair never understands. He thinks death is the worst thing, and that being a Warden is an honor.. that recruiting Loghain somehow "taints" the Wardens. His idealism is at the root of his thinking here. Not justice.



#28
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They let Duncan join. He got to be a Warden because he killed a Warden for a ring and it was the Warden's last request that Duncan take his place in the Wardens. The Wardens don't have any issues with letting murderers join.

 

Also, i think Duncan saved one of the warden recruits from a hanging. The thief, perhaps.

Something neither Alistair or the Warden know

 

Also note of-course that his commander only conscripted him because she hoped the joining would give him a painful death,she didn't want him as a Warden and it's quite different then your best friend/girlfriend ignoring your feelings on the matter and letting someone who betrayed your friends and family to their deaths,tried to kill you and made your life a living hell for the last year escape justice and then expecting you to swallow it and work with the man.



#29
Shadow Fox

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Justice would better be served if Loghain had time to realize just how lame being a Warden is. What sacrifices people like Duncan had to go through to protect people from the darkspawn. If you kill him, he'll never realize what he did, what the Wardens truly are, and what they gave up for everyone. He needs a hard lesson in this. That would be true justice.

 

This is something Alistair never understands. He thinks death is the worst thing, and that being a Warden is an honor.. that recruiting Loghain somehow "taints" the Wardens. His idealism is at the root of his thinking here. Not justice.

You're ignoring that Alistair doesn't want Loghain to be redeemed and honored and remembered as a hero which is exactly what happens if you recruit him.

 

Alistair wants to see him executed and remembered as the traitor he believes he is.

 

If wanting retribution for personal injustices makes him "spoiled" then so is most of the populace.


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#30
DarthGizka

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(regarding dialogue choices that initiate romance)

 

I did pretty much all of them clearly indicate the Warden sees him as more then a friend.

 

Arriving in Redcliffe, when he talks about being Maric's son:

 

I do like you, and not because of your blood.

 

That was the trap my first female Warden walked into. My second, after giving him Duncan's Shield:

 

For you? Anything.

 

That hardly warrants -100 approval, does it.

 

All Wardens after that simply stabled him upon arrival in Lothering. Problem solved.



#31
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You're ignoring that Alistair doesn't want Loghain to be redeemed and honored and remembered as a hero which is exactly what happens if you recruit him.

 

Alistair wants to see him executed and remembered as the traitor he believes he is.

 

If wanting retribution for personal injustices makes him "spoiled" then so is most of the populace.

 

He can kiss my ass then. I don't care about heroes either way. Remembered or not. It's just not relevant to me. What I find frustrating about Loghain is if he dies, he'll go to his grave thinking that Grey Wardens are no better than what Cailan thought.. that it's all merely about glory and skill in battle. Childish notions. True justice would be him realizing it's far more grim. There's a reason why characters like Stroud and Duncan and Riordan are so cold and dry and remote. They're ****** miserable. And from the looks of it, the Wardens of Weisshaupt the most miserable bunch of all. No one even wants to go there.


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#32
Shadow Fox

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(regarding dialogue choices that initiate romance)

 

 

Arriving in Redcliffe, when he talks about being Maric's son:

 

I do like you, and not because of your blood.

 

That was the trap my first female Warden walked into. My second, after giving him Duncan's Shield:

 

For you? Anything.

 

That hardly warrants -100 approval, does it.

 

All Wardens after that simply stabled him upon arrival in Lothering. Problem solved.

Personally I clearly see the romantic overtones in those lines that you didn't isn't Alistair's fault, same as it wasn't Morrigan's fault when I chose the "You can if you want to" line and ninjamanced her while romancing Leliana once.

 

Simply reload an earlier save and don't pick the lines.


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#33
Ryzaki

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Alistair has some ninja lines but so do pretty much all the LIs. Good rule of thumb is anything a wee bit too friendly? Probably is.

 

(Not to mention the Leliana ninja bug. Good lord my femWarden was confused).

 

Thankfully it's easy to nip the romance in the bud afterwards (Unlike ME1 where if you feel into a trap you had to virmire your way out or romance someone else and wait til they clashed). (Also that bugged renedouche with Liara...there was NO escape.)


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#34
Shadow Fox

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He can kiss my ass then. I don't care about heroes either way. Remembered or not. It's just not relevant to me. What I find frustrating about Loghain is if he dies, he'll go to his grave thinking that Grey Wardens are no better than what Cailan thought.. that it's all merely about glory and skill in battle. Childish notions. True justice would be him realizing it's far more grim. There's a reason why characters like Stroud and Duncan and Riordan are so cold and dry and remote. They're ****** miserable. And from the looks of it, the Wardens of Weisshaupt the most miserable bunch of all. No one even wants to go there.

Fair enough I disagree that your notion of "true justice" is greater than Alistair's but fair enough, but would you feel the same if Alistair went over your head and recruited a hated character against your wishes and you couldn't get rid of them?

 

Carver,Sigrun,Anders and Oghren were all happy to be Wardens however and Nathaniel eventually warmed up to being a Warden, seeing it as a chance to redeem his family name so not all Wardens hate the job.



#35
Ryzaki

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If we're gonna include DA2 people Carver loves being a Warden. Bethany hates it.


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#36
Shadow Fox

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If we're gonna include DA2 people Carver loves being a Warden. Bethany hates it.

True, merely pointing out Alistair isn't an exception in the Wardens because he likes the job.



#37
Ryzaki

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Oh yeah that's pretty obvious. I don't feel the organization would last very long if everyone despised the job.


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#38
KaiserShep

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He can kiss my ass then. I don't care about heroes either way. Remembered or not. It's just not relevant to me. What I find frustrating about Loghain is if he dies, he'll go to his grave thinking that Grey Wardens are no better than what Cailan thought.. that it's all merely about glory and skill in battle. Childish notions. True justice would be him realizing it's far more grim. There's a reason why characters like Stroud and Duncan and Riordan are so cold and dry and remote. They're ****** miserable. And from the looks of it, the Wardens of Weisshaupt the most miserable bunch of all. No one even wants to go there.

 

It's a good thing what Loghain takes to his grave has little impact on the rest of the world :P

 

I think Alistair's rather upbeat view of the Wardens is more of a weekend romance, since he hasn't been a Warden that long, and neither has Carver. That's sort of why I never make Bethany a Warden. The whole gun-ho die-darkspawn-die thing seems incongruous to her personality. Personally, I RP my Warden as actually hating being in the order, and would get the hell out the moment the opportunity presented itself. I do like how Alistair as king basically says that there's not much the Wardens can do about it when you take this route.



#39
Shadow Fox

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It's a good thing what Loghain takes to his grave has little impact on the rest of the world :P

 

I think Alistair's rather upbeat view of the Wardens is more of a weekend romance, since he hasn't been a Warden that long, and neither has Carver. That's sort of why I never make Bethany a Warden. The whole gun-ho die-darkspawn-die thing seems incongruous to her personality. Personally, I RP my Warden as actually hating being in the order, and would get the hell out the moment the opportunity presented itself. I do like how Alistair as king basically says that there's not much the Wardens can do about it when you take this route.

He still enjoys the job years later in DA2 however

 

Meta-gaming that's why I prefer Carver he's only resentful if you leave him behind Bethany resents you either way, you just cant win with her. :crying:



#40
slimgrin

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Excellent writing and flawless voice acting. He's arguably the best character Bioware ever created.


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#41
KaiserShep

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He still enjoys the job years later in DA2 however

 

Meta-gaming that's why I prefer Carver he's only resentful if you leave him behind Bethany resents you either way, you just cant win with her. :crying:

 

She definitely takes being sent to the Circle better than being sent off to the Wardens, judging from the letter she sends in Act 2.



#42
teh DRUMPf!!

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I don't have to like Loghain at all to spare him. Being a Warden sucks. This is something I fundamentally disagree with Alistair on.. he holds the Wardens in high regard. I see it as punishment. Riordan's idea is fitting enough.

 

Agreed. I get why Alistair liked it so much; it was a welcome change-of-pace from living in the monastery where he had no friends, but calling it "an honor" for everybody else is stupid. It sucks for anyone with a comfortable and happy enough life, and the Wardens are notorious for accepting any old scum that can fight and survive the Joining. At least Loghain was once a war-hero and liberator before "going bad."

 

I also found his heartbreak over Duncan to be a bit eyebrow-raising, comparing it to someone losing their parent when Morrigan calls him on it. WTF?


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#43
Mike3207

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Something neither Alistair or the Warden know

 

Also note of-course that his commander only conscripted him because she hoped the joining would give him a painful death,she didn't want him as a Warden and it's quite different then your best friend/girlfriend ignoring your feelings on the matter and letting someone who betrayed your friends and family to their deaths,tried to kill you and made your life a living hell for the last year escape justice and then expecting you to swallow it and work with the man.

Alistair had to be with Duncan when he recruited the warden recruits, including the one who was saved from hanging. Although given his hero worship of Duncan, it was likely he would have accepted anything Duncan did.

 

All that the rest prove is simply Alistair is unfit to be King. I can't blame it all on him. Eamon should have done more to prepare him for the Landsmeet, and the Warden should have explained that sparing Loghain was a possibility. Nothing like that happens, and it's a foregone conclusion Alistair will end up a drunk or executed on most of my playthroughs.



#44
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Agreed. I get why Alistair liked it so much; it was a welcome change-of-pace from living in the monastery where he had no friends, but calling it "an honor" for everybody else is stupid. It sucks for anyone with a comfortable and happy enough life, and the Wardens are notorious for accepting any old scum that can fight and survive the Joining. At least Loghain was once a war-hero and liberator before "going bad."

 

I also found his heartbreak over Duncan to be a bit eyebrow-raising, comparing it to someone losing their parent when Morrigan calls him on it. WTF?

 

Then again, the same way that becoming a Warden can suck for someone living a cushy life, losing Duncan can seem like no big deal to someone who has had any sort of loving family to speak of growing up.

 

Alistair had no one growing up. Never knew his mother, his biological father didn't acknowledge him, the closest thing he had to a father figure growing up had him sleep in the stables and kennels like an animal. Then said foster father didn't stand up for Alistair when his new wife started going out of her way to make his life miserable, then he just sent him away to a monastery when said wife demanded it. Then the instructors at the monastery were severe with him and the other students ostracized him for his blood.

 

Alistair didn't know what it's like to be loved, needed, or part of a family because, while he was growing up, everyone treated him like an inconvenience at best, an unwanted burden to pass off to someone else at worst. Duncan and the Grey Wardens were the first (sadly enough) to like him, welcome him, and accept him as one of their own. 

 

 

BESIDES, Alistair doesn't necessarily equate losing Duncan as losing one's whole family. You're taking that out of context. When Morrigan "calls him out on" not getting over it right away, he says, and I quote: "Is my being so upset so hard to understand? Have you never lost someone important to you? Just what would you do if your mother died?" He's not saying that losing them is the same as losing one's whole family, he's saying that they were important to him and that's why he's upset. He then appeals to Morrigan's sense of love and attachment, but probably knows she hasn't gotten close to that many people as a reclusive "witch of the wilds." Since her mother is the only person he knows she spends time with, he asks what about her? It backfires since Morrigan says "Before or after I stopped laughing?" but the sentiment is there.

 

If you found it "eyebrow-raising," then you and your character have been highly privileged indeed.


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#45
Shadow Fox

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Alistair had to be with Duncan when he recruited the warden recruits, including the one who was saved from hanging. Although given his hero worship of Duncan, it was likely he would have accepted anything Duncan did.

 

All that the rest prove is simply Alistair is unfit to be King. I can't blame it all on him. Eamon should have done more to prepare him for the Landsmeet, and the Warden should have explained that sparing Loghain was a possibility. Nothing like that happens, and it's a foregone conclusion Alistair will end up a drunk or executed on most of my playthroughs.

Davaeth however as far as we know isn't a murderer just a thief. 

 

So what, You have to be an unfeeling robot to be fit to be King/Queen?Exactly how is Anora better by that criteria?


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#46
Ryzaki

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Especially since she'll turn against you if you dare admit her father should be executed for his crimes and no she can't convince you otherwise. I mean one of my PCs was all set to support her too.  Then he just shook his head.


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#47
Mike3207

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Davaeth however as far as we know isn't a murderer just a thief. 

 

So what, You have to be an unfeeling robot to be fit to be King/Queen?Exactly how is Anora better by that criteria?

Not an unfeeling robot-but you have to have the ability to take the emotion out of politics and treat your worst enemy like your best friend. Bhelen is a perfect example of this-he was able to work with his brother Trian for several years even though he did hate him before finally seeking his revenge. Alistair could have learned a lot from Bhelen.

 

Anora is better because she can take the emotion out of it, and doesn't seek revenge on Alistair after he kills her father. She'll only kill him if he goes for the throne and her father survives.



#48
Shadow Fox

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Not an unfeeling robot-but you have to have the ability to take the emotion out of politics and treat your worst enemy like your best friend. Bhelen is a perfect example of this-he was able to work with his brother Trian for several years even though he did hate him before finally seeking his revenge. Alistair could have learned a lot from Bhelen.

 

Anora is better because she can take the emotion out of it, and doesn't seek revenge on Alistair after he kills her father. She'll only kill him if he goes for the throne and her father survives.

No she just risks dooming the country to save her criminal father by betraying the Warden at the Landsmeet.

 

How is she better again? :rolleyes: 


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#49
Karlone123

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I like Alistair's humour, it's quite appealing to me. Plus, people think I am a blubbering fool at times too,


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#50
Ryzaki

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No she just risks dooming the country to save her criminal father by betraying the Warden at the Landsmeet.

 

How is she better again? :rolleyes: 

 

Yeah they both have their "are you serious right now?" moments. Thus why my main ending is Hardened Alistair and Anora ruling together. They can cover each other's blind spots really well in that scenario.

 

Now I can see why people would pick Anora over unhardened Alistair but she and hardened Alistair are pretty neck and neck for rulers. She's more focused on the big picture and Alistair's more about the people.


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