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Why is Alistair so damn likeable?


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#201
Cobra's_back

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starlitegirl,

 

"I don't know. I find all this evidence and now I hear that the Couslands were slaughtered because they looked like traitors so it makes Howe, the murderous torturer maniac look like he was some kind of better person. That's hard to swallow especially given what we discover in his dungeons. Dude was nasty at the highest order. His death was truly justified."

 

I don't believe this as well. There is no evidence. It is just Howe's word. This we get from a man that was called the butcher of Denerim. 

 

I also agree with Riverdalewhiteflash;

 

"Even if the Couslands had to be taken down (and we have only Howe's word for this), Howe went so far above and beyond what the crimes they are accused of would justify that it's not even funny. "

 

So true. It was not the way to handle it at all. 



#202
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Where was this? I didn't see this anywhere in the game.

 

It's just Howe's last word.

 

Coupled with my adding info from Return to Ostagar, where a well meaning Cailan was talking to Orlesians. In addition to Eleanor admitting that her and Bryce just came back from Orlais. Something Nathaniel might've said too. Things just add up in a way where I can see how Howe and Loghain interpreted it all badly. Not that I'm excusing them though. Just sounds like one of those situations where information gets distorted down the grapevine. I think the writers did a good job of presenting a intertwining story of political intrigue here.. it has more depth than the simple interpretation that "Howe = Conniving Weasel Villain". Although he was that as well.


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#203
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It's just Howe's last word.

 

Coupled with my adding info from Return to Ostagar, where a well meaning Cailan was talking to Orlesians. In addition to Eleanor admitting that her and Bryce just came back from Orlais. Something Nathaniel might've said too. Things just add up in a way where I can see how Howe and Loghain interpreted it all badly. Not that I'm excusing them though. Just sounds like one of those situations where information gets distorted down the grapevine. I think the writers did a good job of presenting a intertwining story of political intrigue here.. it has more depth than the simple interpretation that "Howe = Conniving Weasel Villain". Although he was that as well.

 

And again I go back to my thoughts on Cailan and Couslands talking with Orlais could have turned out very well. Everyone assumes Orlais was going to try to take Ferelden again, but this is really only based on speculation and what happened in the past. But a generation has gone by. Look as the US and Russia. We went on to have generally amicable dealings. Best of terms? Hard to tell but not at war by any standards. Once lines of communication are opened... things change. This can be said for other countries in Europe that were once at great odds with each other. Times change. People change. Only people like Loghain who carried it so deeply would harbor a grudge and paranoia so strongly. In his case, it is understandable give that he saw it all first hand and led Ferelden to victory but it made him a man capable of seeing them only as an enemy. People think that them sending more troops was proof, but my thoughts are different.

 

Say you are in some kind of peaceful negotiations with a country you occupied brutually for nearly a century but have not been in for a generation or more. They are facing a blight which will become your blight if it is not stopped. What is you best course of action? Send all the troop you can muster to help save the land you are aiming to have good relations with in the future while also helping ensure that you are solidifying a strong sense of trust in you for helping said country while also saving your lands from a blight by stopping it while it is in their country. There is no downside to that. Only a suspicious person would see it as they were going to occupy us, but logically, WHY would they even try to occupy a blighted land? Sure, it's weakened from the blight but it is also so horribly damaged (takes a decade to recover) that it would actually cost more to take it over because now you are responsible to help it rebuild. Nobody tries to take over crappy third world countries, do they? Of course not, because they are not viewed as having anything to offer which is how it is after a blight and once the blight starts, you've already lost a portion of the land making it far less valuable. It's a wasteland. You are taking over a wasteland, and to what end? So that you can spend valuable resources on it for a decade to rebuild it? The only way that seems like a good plan is if there was something particularly of value in that land that down the line you could call your own. Otherwise, strategically, it does nothing for you.

 

Also, in the end, nobody was sent which shows they really weren't aiming to take over or they would have showed up when ferelden was at its weakest. This to me says that they were likely aiming at peaceful negotiations and becoming strong allies but with the king and couslands dead, the two that were working hard at forging this alliance, that option no longer appears to be a good one and now after loghains rants about Orlais they are seen confrontationally bringing up old grudges. Hence why alistair tells you things aren't going so well with them in game two.


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#204
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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And again I go back to my thoughts on Cailan and Couslands talking with Orlais could have turned out very well. Everyone assumes Orlais was going to try to take Ferelden again, but this is really only based on speculation and what happened in the past. But a generation has gone by. Look as the US and Russia. We went on to have generally amicable dealings. Best of terms? Hard to tell but not at war by any standards. Once lines of communication are opened... things change. This can be said for other countries in Europe that were once at great odds with each other. Times change. People change. Only people like Loghain who carried it so deeply would harbor a grudge and paranoia so strongly. In his case, it is understandable give that he saw it all first hand and led Ferelden to victory but it made him a man capable of seeing them only as an enemy. People think that them sending more troops was proof, but my thoughts are different.

 

Say you are in some kind of peaceful negotiations with a country you occupied brutually for nearly a century but have not been in for a generation or more. They are facing a blight which will become your blight if it is not stopped. What is you best course of action? Send all the troop you can muster to help save the land you are aiming to have good relations with in the future while also helping ensure that you are solidifying a strong sense of trust in you for helping said country while also saving your lands from a blight by stopping it while it is in their country. There is no downside to that. Only a suspicious person would see it as they were going to occupy us, but logically, WHY would they even try to occupy a blighted land? Sure, it's weakened from the blight but it is also so horribly damaged (takes a decade to recover) that it would actually cost more to take it over because now you are responsible to help it rebuild. Nobody tries to take over crappy third world countries, do they? Of course not, because they are not viewed as having anything to offer which is how it is after a blight and once the blight starts, you've already lost a portion of the land making it far less valuable. It's a wasteland. You are taking over a wasteland, and to what end? So that you can spend valuable resources on it for a decade to rebuild it? The only way that seems like a good plan is if there was something particularly of value in that land that down the line you could call your own. Otherwise, strategically, it does nothing for you.

 

Also, in the end, nobody was sent which shows they really weren't aiming to take over or they would have showed up when ferelden was at its weakest. This to me says that they were likely aiming at peaceful negotiations and becoming strong allies but with the king and couslands dead, the two that were working hard at forging this alliance, that option no longer appears to be a good one and now after loghains rants about Orlais they are seen confrontationally bringing up old grudges. Hence why alistair tells you things aren't going so well with them in game two.

Well, according to both Loghain and (apparently) Gaider, Celene was planning to pull a marriage deal that would have led to her having Ferelden. (The tone of the letter from Celene you find during RtO is evidence of this, though Loghain seems to regard the letter as actual proof.) Also, while Celene seems to not want to take the country by force, the Civil War seems to be between her and those who do.


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#205
Shadow Fox

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You play as Alistair, and I think it's just like having to restart the game after losing any battle though I've always won against him. I've done it. He kills him as soon as you win and it goes to a cut then he takes the throne, at least if he is hardened. I'm not sure if he just takes it not hardening because I didn't let him duel under as unhardened. As  a noble female he then gives you the boot because of the taint in your blood. Frankly, he turns out to be the worst kind of trash in that circumstance and you don't even get any kind of reasonable retort for the measure of pissed off you are to have your tainted blood held against you. Really, what a loser moment for him.

He does so because two grey wardens can't have offspring and/or because the bannon barely accepts him as king as is.

 

Frankly I'm surprised a Cousland can become a ruler period for the 1st above reason and because it's a blatant power grab by the Warden.


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#206
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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He does so because two grey wardens can't have offspring and/or because the bannon barely accepts him as king as is.

 

Frankly I'm surprised a Cousland can become a ruler period for the 1st above reason and because it's a blatant power grab by the Warden.

The "blatant power grab" argument can be made against any of the three candidates, and as far as blood the Warden is probably superior to the other two by merit of being a Cousland (they're high nobility and thus probably descended from a large number of Theirin women and second sons) and not a bastard (typical law of succession completely disqualifies them, and while Alistair's clearly not completely barred from inheritance Ceorlic opines that it's more of a black mark than being second generation nobility without his conversational partner challenging him. Ceorlic in fact says this in response to said conversational partner calling it a "bad precedent," which heavily implies that this has never happened before.)

 

The Tainted Blood thing should, by all rights, disqualify even the Warden/Anora marriage, since even that is unlikely to produce children. On the other hand, everyone in the running is of questionable fertility, so there's that. And of course this is assuming anyone besides the Wardens know about the Wardens' infertility, which is open to question.



#207
Shadow Fox

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The "blatant power grab" argument can be made against any of the three candidates, and as far as blood the Warden is probably superior to the other two by merit of being a Cousland (they're high nobility and thus probably descended from a large number of Theirin women and second sons) and not a bastard (typical law of succession completely disqualifies them, and while Alistair's clearly not completely barred from inheritance Ceorlic opines that it's more of a black mark than being second generation nobility without his conversational partner challenging him. Ceorlic in fact says this in response to said conversational partner calling it a "bad precedent," which heavily implies that this has never happened before.)

 

The Tainted Blood thing should, by all rights, disqualify even the Warden/Anora marriage, since even that is unlikely to produce children. On the other hand, everyone in the running is of questionable fertility, so there's that. And of course this is assuming anyone besides the Wardens know about the Wardens' infertility, which is open to question.

I meant because Loghain flat out accuses you of intending to rule through Alistiar beforehand.

 

That's what I mean.


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#208
dshoub

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Holy crap, 206 replies! I was just musing about my little gaming dilemma, I never thought the post would take off like this lol. But I suppose that speaks to how amazing the characters in Dragon Age: Origins are.

 

As for my original post, I've come to the decision that I'm going to take a more moderate approach. She won't exactly be friendly, but she won't come off as a b**** without good cause. Thanks for all the advice.


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#209
DarthGizka

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*laughing hysterically* Alistair beats the snot out of Loghain without even breaking a sweat.. 'Tis a thing of beauty and always a joy.  :wub:

loghain_snot_zps711dbab2.jpg

 

Nice picture. Warden Commander armour set (sort of ironic, Alistair wearing it), Howe's shield probably, and is that Starfang I see poking through? I bet you also tied his shoelaces and directed his every move during the duel, as well as making all level-up choices for him since Ostagar.

I was talking about Alistair fighting his own fight for once, fair and square. With his own abilities, stats, tactics and equipment.

 

P.S.: or you controlling Alistair and me taking over Loghain... That would be fun!



#210
Ryzaki

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He does so because two grey wardens can't have offspring and/or because the bannon barely accepts him as king as is.

 

Frankly I'm surprised a Cousland can become a ruler period for the 1st above reason and because it's a blatant power grab by the Warden.

 

To be fair the PC has proven himself/herself competent in times of emergency more than those who were already leading so in that case I guess they were fine with it (though I always win the debate and then kick Loghain's ass. A through victory).


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#211
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Well, according to both Loghain and (apparently) Gaider, Celene was planning to pull a marriage deal that would have led to her having Ferelden. (The tone of the letter from Celene you find during RtO is evidence of this, though Loghain seems to regard the letter as actual proof.) Also, while Celene seems to not want to take the country by force, the Civil War seems to be between her and those who do.

 

But through marriage it is much different. Often countries have done this, married two rulers. Often they have tried. History is filled with countries trying to marry say one of the Tudors to other upcoming princes or royalty. Queen Elizabeth had many suitors and I think some of them were kings though I don't remember specifically. But it is actually favorable or viewed as a good thing by most except those that might have issue with one side of the marriage. This was often the case during all the religious insanity taking place in Europe and England around the Tudor era because certain marriages meant a shift in religions and the power they held. Otherwise, it's usually not an issue. People see it as a profitable expansion - two kingdoms uniting and becoming stronger. Far more preferable than storming a country and taking it by force leaving much death and depleting valuable resources. Instead, resources are now shared rather than used to arm and attack one another. Loghain doesn't like it because he hates orlais. People who are still stuck in the past hating orlais wouldn't like it as well. But it has its benefits.

 

The marrige would also seem to quell those who want to take the country by force as now there is no point. it ends the debate. Lots of problems solved by the marriage if the two involved wish to follow through with it.


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#212
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And again I go back to my thoughts on Cailan and Couslands talking with Orlais could have turned out very well. Everyone assumes Orlais was going to try to take Ferelden again, but this is really only based on speculation and what happened in the past. But a generation has gone by. Look as the US and Russia. We went on to have generally amicable dealings. Best of terms? Hard to tell but not at war by any standards. Once lines of communication are opened... things change. This can be said for other countries in Europe that were once at great odds with each other. Times change. People change. Only people like Loghain who carried it so deeply would harbor a grudge and paranoia so strongly. In his case, it is understandable give that he saw it all first hand and led Ferelden to victory but it made him a man capable of seeing them only as an enemy. People think that them sending more troops was proof, but my thoughts are different.

 

Say you are in some kind of peaceful negotiations with a country you occupied brutually for nearly a century but have not been in for a generation or more. They are facing a blight which will become your blight if it is not stopped. What is you best course of action? Send all the troop you can muster to help save the land you are aiming to have good relations with in the future while also helping ensure that you are solidifying a strong sense of trust in you for helping said country while also saving your lands from a blight by stopping it while it is in their country. There is no downside to that. Only a suspicious person would see it as they were going to occupy us, but logically, WHY would they even try to occupy a blighted land? Sure, it's weakened from the blight but it is also so horribly damaged (takes a decade to recover) that it would actually cost more to take it over because now you are responsible to help it rebuild. Nobody tries to take over crappy third world countries, do they? Of course not, because they are not viewed as having anything to offer which is how it is after a blight and once the blight starts, you've already lost a portion of the land making it far less valuable. It's a wasteland. You are taking over a wasteland, and to what end? So that you can spend valuable resources on it for a decade to rebuild it? The only way that seems like a good plan is if there was something particularly of value in that land that down the line you could call your own. Otherwise, strategically, it does nothing for you.

 

Also, in the end, nobody was sent which shows they really weren't aiming to take over or they would have showed up when ferelden was at its weakest. This to me says that they were likely aiming at peaceful negotiations and becoming strong allies but with the king and couslands dead, the two that were working hard at forging this alliance, that option no longer appears to be a good one and now after loghains rants about Orlais they are seen confrontationally bringing up old grudges. Hence why alistair tells you things aren't going so well with them in game two.

 

I understand completely. Nothing wrong with making peace with Orlais. It's just complicated for all involved, that's all.

 

One thing that sums up Loghain for me is if he and Dog are in your group, and the rambling story he tells Dog. Man, that is sad. Simple, but sad. It symbolizes a lot with why he's so paranoid. When it comes down to it, he's a victim. Not just a warmonger.



#213
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To be fair the PC has proven himself/herself competent in times of emergency more than those who were already leading so in that case I guess they were fine with it (though I always win the debate and then kick Loghain's ass. A through victory).

 

Yes, this has crossed my mind when I play a cousland female. Not that I want her to be queen, but I look around and see everyone wanting all this power and none of them actually doing a damn thing to help the clear and present danger in the country while my character has been out fighting all sorts of hell to amass armies at her back and end the blight. Often I've thought every one of them should be locked in a room somewhere and forced to contemplate their actions. Eamon, Loghain, Anora... just go sit in a corner and don't even think of getting up until you can admit why all of you suck as rulers.

 

Again, I have no designs for the throne. The ONLY reason I ever did was for the lovely little marriage wrap up with Alistair. Frankly, it feels like it has no real place in the game and is thrust upon us merely to give all those options for people who want to role play with choices and outcomes. Without it, there are only minor choices and no major results from them. That is why I dislike the landsmeet so much. Because it is evident that this was their main way of tossing us a whole lot of different outcomes, and while I think the idea is excellent, I don't think it really fits well in this specific game because we start out as wardens ending a blight and end up screwing around with the throne. Totally off focus... shifting to a different track entirely. In another game... some kind of Game of Thrones kind of RPG, it would fit perfectly. But here, it's really bizarre. But the actual landsmeet, outside of the THIS game is interesting and fairly well done. I don't care for the fact that only certain endings give you a full sense of closure for romances. Otherwise, it has a lot of merits but again it feels very weird.

 

Yeah, maybe my cousland should be queen. She sure has done a lot more for this country than anyone else has recently.


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#214
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I'm curious how they're going to handle the future of Ferelden's throne. It seems like the Couslands have a chance of getting it either way by different circumstances. Either by our own playthroughs, or after Alistair dies. The Theirin bloodline will be gone then, unless he did the Dark Ritual. In which case, that will probably turn into a nasty Mordred situation that kills Alistair. lol. Then the next in line will be the Couslands anyways.

 

I see Cousland as someone like "Evon the Great" (from the Evon the Great's mail armor piece). He was another guy like Calenhad back in the day, who almost united Ferelden at one point. It wasn't to be, but it shows that Ferelden has always been open to different rulers. There isn't necessarily a strict royal hereditary tradition. Only people like Eamon rely on that. Loghain showed it wasn't all that important, even if he was Maric's best friend. He followed Maric because he loved the guy personally.



#215
Jaison1986

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And again I go back to my thoughts on Cailan and Couslands talking with Orlais could have turned out very well. Everyone assumes Orlais was going to try to take Ferelden again, but this is really only based on speculation and what happened in the past. But a generation has gone by. Look as the US and Russia. We went on to have generally amicable dealings. Best of terms? Hard to tell but not at war by any standards. Once lines of communication are opened... things change. This can be said for other countries in Europe that were once at great odds with each other. Times change. People change. Only people like Loghain who carried it so deeply would harbor a grudge and paranoia so strongly. In his case, it is understandable give that he saw it all first hand and led Ferelden to victory but it made him a man capable of seeing them only as an enemy. People think that them sending more troops was proof, but my thoughts are different.

 

Say you are in some kind of peaceful negotiations with a country you occupied brutually for nearly a century but have not been in for a generation or more. They are facing a blight which will become your blight if it is not stopped. What is you best course of action? Send all the troop you can muster to help save the land you are aiming to have good relations with in the future while also helping ensure that you are solidifying a strong sense of trust in you for helping said country while also saving your lands from a blight by stopping it while it is in their country. There is no downside to that. Only a suspicious person would see it as they were going to occupy us, but logically, WHY would they even try to occupy a blighted land? Sure, it's weakened from the blight but it is also so horribly damaged (takes a decade to recover) that it would actually cost more to take it over because now you are responsible to help it rebuild. Nobody tries to take over crappy third world countries, do they? Of course not, because they are not viewed as having anything to offer which is how it is after a blight and once the blight starts, you've already lost a portion of the land making it far less valuable. It's a wasteland. You are taking over a wasteland, and to what end? So that you can spend valuable resources on it for a decade to rebuild it? The only way that seems like a good plan is if there was something particularly of value in that land that down the line you could call your own. Otherwise, strategically, it does nothing for you.

 

Also, in the end, nobody was sent which shows they really weren't aiming to take over or they would have showed up when ferelden was at its weakest. This to me says that they were likely aiming at peaceful negotiations and becoming strong allies but with the king and couslands dead, the two that were working hard at forging this alliance, that option no longer appears to be a good one and now after loghains rants about Orlais they are seen confrontationally bringing up old grudges. Hence why alistair tells you things aren't going so well with them in game two.

 

The thing is, the Orlesians would never be content with peace. Once Ferelden is anexated to Orlais, it would not be Ferelden any more, it would be the newest Orlesian state, Ferelden culture would be completely lost in order to be replaced by the Orlesian one. And they would still be regarded as second class citizens. A certain mark of the orlesian leadership is their sheer arrogance and sense of superiority.

 

There is this dialogue between Loghain and Wynne that gives some insight of what we could expect of an union of the countries:

 

Wynne: And what of peace? Would it not bring us that, at least?

 

 
Loghain: Peace? I would have thought your age might have granted more wisdom, madam. Peace just means fighting someone else's enemies in someone else's war for someone else's reasons.
 
If Orlais ever went to war, who do you think would be used as canon fodder in the front lines? No, if the only way for the Orlesians to leave Ferelden alone is by anexating them, then they can shove it. I have no sympathy for an country that thinks that the their neighbors need to be made part of them in order to be tolerated.


#216
theskymoves

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Nice picture. Warden Commander armour set (sort of ironic, Alistair wearing it), Howe's shield probably, and is that Starfang I see poking through? I bet you also tied his shoelaces and directed his every move during the duel, as well as making all level-up choices for him since Ostagar.

I was talking about Alistair fighting his own fight for once, fair and square. With his own abilities, stats, tactics and equipment.

 

P.S.: or you controlling Alistair and me taking over Loghain... That would be fun!

 

Duncan's Shield, not  Howe's. (And I wonder why I gave him Starfang instead of his father's sword that time? Hmmm... *scratches hed in a ponder-y fashion*)

landsmeet101_zpsabe59c87.jpg

 

Do you not control whomever is battling Loghain? My game defaults to that... it must be broken, I guess. :huh: And "his own abilities, stats, tactics and equipment" makes no sense. Those things are always whatever the player gives him (or not), and I choose to properly equip and spec companions so they are the best they can be. I know you choose to do otherwise... your loss, I suppose.

 

As for "my Alistair" vs "your Loghain"? I think that would be best summed up by first paraphrasing the great William Goldman: "My name is Alistair. You killed my father-figure. Now prepare to die!", followed by Loghain having the snot beaten out of him and his head cut off by a fit, talented warrior 30 years his junior. (A warrior who soloed dragon!Flemeth, come to think of it... has "your Loghain" ever done that?) 


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#217
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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But through marriage it is much different. Often countries have done this, married two rulers. Often they have tried. History is filled with countries trying to marry say one of the Tudors to other upcoming princes or royalty. Queen Elizabeth had many suitors and I think some of them were kings though I don't remember specifically. But it is actually favorable or viewed as a good thing by most except those that might have issue with one side of the marriage. This was often the case during all the religious insanity taking place in Europe and England around the Tudor era because certain marriages meant a shift in religions and the power they held. Otherwise, it's usually not an issue. People see it as a profitable expansion - two kingdoms uniting and becoming stronger. Far more preferable than storming a country and taking it by force leaving much death and depleting valuable resources. Instead, resources are now shared rather than used to arm and attack one another. Loghain doesn't like it because he hates orlais. People who are still stuck in the past hating orlais wouldn't like it as well. But it has its benefits.

 

The marrige would also seem to quell those who want to take the country by force as now there is no point. it ends the debate. Lots of problems solved by the marriage if the two involved wish to follow through with it.

The problem is that as the larger country, Orlais would be the main force in control. And any Ferelden over 40 has a preconceived notion (accurate or not, and I think it is) of what Orlesian rule entails.



#218
Xilizhra

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Do you not control whomever is battling Loghain? My game defaults to that... it must be broken, I guess. :huh: And "his own abilities, stats, tactics and equipment" makes no sense. Those things are always whatever the player gives him (or not), and I choose to properly equip and spec companions so they are the best they can be. I know you choose to do otherwise... your loss, I suppose.

In fact, you do control whoever is battling Loghain.



#219
theskymoves

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In fact, you do control whoever is battling Loghain.

 

*sigh* I was being sarcastic. 



#220
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All I know is that a Duelist rogue can make mincemeat out of Loghain real quick. A specialization that lives up to it's name.



#221
Cobra's_back

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theskymoves,

 

Thank you for providing the picture. I'm very fond of Alistair. He had been on the team from the start and through out the game is a very caring person not just to the warden. You hear him voice concern for others all the time. He'll ask the merchant in Orzammar if he needs help when the Carta threaten the shop keeper. As the Warden I have some loyalty and concern for all team members. He is easy to support because he has high moral standards.



#222
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I suppose I'll agree. Even though he's a Goody type, both his morality and Leliana's don't rub me the wrong way. Wynne is different, because she oversteps her bounds, and acts like she's there to be an advisor, giving me platitudes and trying to make me live up to some crappy ideal she read in a children's book. Telling me how grateful she will be if I did nothing but live for others and relished in self-sacrifice. No, Wynne. I just wanted a mage with a better attitude than Morrigan. Easy job. That isn't asking much.

 

It saddens me that Bioware's Canon Warden is someone who believed her crap.


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#223
theskymoves

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All I know is that a Duelist rogue can make mincemeat out of Loghain real quick. A specialization that lives up to it's name.

 

My favourite PT was the wee elven Spirit Healer Loghain never even touched.

 

DAOrigins2011-06-2000-14-37-47_zps15451f



#224
Riverdaleswhiteflash

Riverdaleswhiteflash
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My favourite PT was the wee elven Spirit Healer Loghain never even touched.

 

DAOrigins2011-06-2000-14-37-47_zps15451f

Stonefist, Mind Blast, Cone Of Cold, Blood Wound. I am really surprised my Blood-Mage/Spirit-Healer didn't get executed for fighting a formal duel that way.



#225
theskymoves

theskymoves
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Stonefist, Mind Blast, Cone Of Cold, Blood Wound. I am really surprised my Blood-Mage/Spirit-Healer didn't get executed for fighting a formal duel that way.

 

My mage used stuff like Paralysis, Cone of Cold, Grease (he makes the loudest CLUNK! when he falls down), Glyph of Repulsion. And maybe some Stinging Swarm? It's been a while...

 

No Blood Magic. (Maker forfend!) She was a great healer and a cr@p fighter (intentionally so).


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