247 réponses à ce sujet

[LuckyStarr]

Of the 4 guys being discussed here I've tried 3 - everyone but Quarksman. To me (don't forget I'm a noob at this game) Human Soldier is by far superior. About the same damage as TSol + much higher survivability. As for N7 Destroyer - I just don't understand him: lower damage, can't dodge. And even though he gets a lot more shield HP than human, I somehow die with Destroyer way way more often than with Human. Probably because Adrenaline Rush acts like a panic button, restoring shields momentarily in a tough situation.

[Fortack]

If the TSol is really such monstrosity, the second GI, how come that practically no one named him as the best soldier of the four? Read back the responses: HSOL, QMS, Destroyer, Bat sol, GTS, Kro sol, some even argues that the GE is better than all ... how come?
 
Last but not least, the exact same argument can be made for the drell adept, or the AUI, or the TGI, or even the Juggy, etc. What does it mean? Does it means that the game is full of broken kits (I know some would say yes), IMO no. It just means, that like Fortack, you ignore the trade-offs each kits offers: speed, survivability, ease of use, DPS etc. People do not sipmly pick the highest DPS kits on plat (yes not even the GI or the DA).

 
Everyone has their own racial characteristics, has access to 3 abilities, and can use all weapons. What I am questioning is the point of giving a select few vastly superior weapons with no tradeoff whatsoever. Would a Volus Engineer, who can use the GI version of the Talon (or whatever), make the GI - or any of the other kits you've mentioned - look bad?

 

You can also turn things around: Would the Destroyer become a worthless PoS without DM's weapon bonuses? Or Infiltrators when you remove TC's damage boost? Is HM without the accuracy and RoF stuff garbage?

 

I believe there seems to be some confusion between weapon(mod)s and abilities here. For example, I like the MM Saber but completely fail to understand the point of having only 2 character choices if I want to use it (and be unable to do anything but shoot for the entire match). Why can't I use the MM Saber on my Justicar, Batarian Sentinel, FQE and so on?

 

When you completely remove all weapon enhancing stuff from powers and move them to their appropriate place (the weapon modding workbench) you:

 

1. Get much more (weapon) customization options for everyone.

 

2. Create room for abilities that can be used more frequently than turning it on at the start of the game, which will:

 

3. Add more options for the player in combat.

 

4. Reward player input instead of simply selecting a kit that deals more damage, faster, at ridiculous range, and without the need to properly aim.

 

5. Make it very easy to balance weapons.

 

Everything you can do today can be done after you rearrange stuff (ergo, moving all weapon enhancements to the (weapon) modding section). I can't see any disadvantages at all, unless the point is to create (a couple) kits that are miles ahead of the competition for no obvious reason (which I consider a bad thing BTW).

[KalilKareem]

I am a big fan of destroyer, but not of devestator mode. I run him without it and he works swell. Turian soldier has the highest single target DPS of the four, and that does matter is some matches (you need a certain amount of DPS not to be overrun, TSol can help you get that when HSol might fail). But like you say, the difference is not huge and you can just roll with what you like.

 

TSol and destroyer leans more towards automatic weapons due to stagger immunity and stability bonuses, whereas the HSol works (imho) best with a claymore.

[LuckyStarr]

What's the reasoning behind not using devastator mode? Without it your DPS is not even in the soldier class category. And you don't have shield boost. What you get instead is normal movement speed and dodge, is that worth the sacrifice?

[FuriousFelicia]

What's the reasoning behind not using devastator mode? Without it your DPS is not even in the soldier class category. And you don't have shield boost. What you get instead is normal movement speed and dodge, is that worth the sacrifice?

No. But I'm sure someone will say otherwise

[NuclearTech76]

Shields, speed, wallhax can be cured by gears or cunsumables. How do you cure the others?

 

 

Lack of dodge is not a big deal? Good for you if so; most people I know does not likes the TSol exactly because of the lack of dodge.

Why would lack of a dodge be that big a deal though? Batarian and Krogan kits don't have dodge neither does the Destroyer if you're in DM. I mean sure there are times when the no dodge thing pisses me off but it really doesn't take that much away from the kit anyways just makes you play a wee bit differently.

[GTRSX]

Only if BW decided to actually give something negative in return for something positive, i think it would have benefitted the general balance in this game immensely. Note that i do not play much MP of other games so i might not be completely right on this.

 

The GI only gets a shield reduction from HM. CM4/RHA makes that trivial. In fact CM4/RHA makes survivability trivial in this game(using gold as standard difficulty). Even someone completely new can play like he was good because CM4 gives a lot of shields and more chances with a good weapon.

 

I wonder if TC was rebalanced in such a way that the entire dmg bonus was given to only Single Shot weapons, and multi-shot weapons would get only the damage boost for the first bullet fired from cloak and the rest getting no dmg bonus and if enemy shield gate was brought back to around 85% rather than 75% as of now, would it still be considered OP?

 

IMO each soldier has his/her own advantages and disadvantages. When balancing comes into the question it gets very hard on how to do so. This thread itself shows what different people have different views on balancing.

 

It's hard to actually come upon a common consensus on balancing. I hope BW makes sure of this and prepares accordingly for ME4MP if it comes that is!(I'm quite confident of it! )

 

Also offtopic but kinda relevant, what do you ppl think if synckills were made such that it was possible only if the player was shield gated and on health? I think it would reduce the BS moments that we all sometimes face like for eg. when a phantom synckills someone after meleeing someone else or a banshee suddenly teleporting through a wall and picking you up without so much as an announcement that you are in trouble. I think this can also be useful for vanguards to charge enemies at will. Or do y'all consider it OP?

[dudemacha]

Sync kills are fine as is...except krogans and vorcha should atleast need two syncs( first you get downed , then you die )

[lightswitch]

either the Turian Soldier or Vanilla Human. They're both equipped to handle anything that comes at them. but the human soldier has overall the best survivability. when survivability comes into play, the Turian Soldier has to "take breaks" whereas the human soldier can keep on fighting.

Human Soldier wins because theoretical DPS is BS.

The damage one can potentially do is overshadowed by the one who can sustain the longest under pressure, in multiple scenarios.

 

unbelievable

[Deerber]

unbelievable

 

What, that other people have different opinions than yours? I know, unbelievable, right... 

[TheNightSlasher]

If there was a drell soldier, this question of best soldier would never have come up 

[Deerber]

If there was a drell soldier, this question of best soldier would never have come up 

 

QFMFT

[Tybo]

Everyone has their own racial characteristics, has access to 3 abilities, and can use all weapons. What I am questioning is the point of giving a select few vastly superior weapons with no tradeoff whatsoever. Would a Volus Engineer, who can use the GI version of the Talon (or whatever), make the GI - or any of the other kits you've mentioned - look bad?
 
You can also turn things around: Would the Destroyer become a worthless PoS without DM's weapon bonuses? Or Infiltrators when you remove TC's damage boost? Is HM without the accuracy and RoF stuff garbage?
 
I believe there seems to be some confusion between weapon(mod)s and abilities here. For example, I like the MM Saber but completely fail to understand the point of having only 2 character choices if I want to use it (and be unable to do anything but shoot for the entire match). Why can't I use the MM Saber on my Justicar, Batarian Sentinel, FQE and so on?
 
When you completely remove all weapon enhancing stuff from powers and move them to their appropriate place (the weapon modding workbench) you:
 
1. Get much more (weapon) customization options for everyone.
 
2. Create room for abilities that can be used more frequently than turning it on at the start of the game, which will:
 
3. Add more options for the player in combat.
 
4. Reward player input instead of simply selecting a kit that deals more damage, faster, at ridiculous range, and without the need to properly aim.
 
5. Make it very easy to balance weapons.
 
Everything you can do today can be done after you rearrange stuff (ergo, moving all weapon enhancements to the (weapon) modding section). I can't see any disadvantages at all, unless the point is to create (a couple) kits that are miles ahead of the competition for no obvious reason (which I consider a bad thing BTW).

I approve of this balancing strategy

[dudemacha]

If there was a drell soldier, this question of best soldier would never have come up 

Obviously my geth MM with AR,MM and arc nades is better

[TheNightSlasher]

Obviously my geth MM with AR,MM and arc nades is better

Good luck getting to ammo boxes to refill your grenades with a drell in your team...

[dudemacha]

Good luck getting to ammo boxes to refill your grenades with a drell in your team...

did i mention i had talon merc passives and hunter mode as fitness ?

[Cyonan]

 
Everyone has their own racial characteristics, has access to 3 abilities, and can use all weapons. What I am questioning is the point of giving a select few vastly superior weapons with no tradeoff whatsoever. Would a Volus Engineer, who can use the GI version of the Talon (or whatever), make the GI - or any of the other kits you've mentioned - look bad?

 

You can also turn things around: Would the Destroyer become a worthless PoS without DM's weapon bonuses? Or Infiltrators when you remove TC's damage boost? Is HM without the accuracy and RoF stuff garbage?

 

I believe there seems to be some confusion between weapon(mod)s and abilities here. For example, I like the MM Saber but completely fail to understand the point of having only 2 character choices if I want to use it (and be unable to do anything but shoot for the entire match). Why can't I use the MM Saber on my Justicar, Batarian Sentinel, FQE and so on?

 

When you completely remove all weapon enhancing stuff from powers and move them to their appropriate place (the weapon modding workbench) you:

 

1. Get much more (weapon) customization options for everyone.

 

2. Create room for abilities that can be used more frequently than turning it on at the start of the game, which will:

 

3. Add more options for the player in combat.

 

4. Reward player input instead of simply selecting a kit that deals more damage, faster, at ridiculous range, and without the need to properly aim.

 

5. Make it very easy to balance weapons.

 

Everything you can do today can be done after you rearrange stuff (ergo, moving all weapon enhancements to the (weapon) modding section). I can't see any disadvantages at all, unless the point is to create (a couple) kits that are miles ahead of the competition for no obvious reason (which I consider a bad thing BTW).

 

and once you take away these weapon performance boosting abilities, how do you intend on compensating the weapon platforms so that they can remain competitive on damage output with the casters who now have access to weapons with the exact same stats but much better abilities?

 

Note that giving them direct damage dealing abilities in place of what they lost changes what those kits are about, and completely removes a certain playstyle from the game which goes against the idea of more customization and variety in the game.

 

Also yes, certain Infiltrators would become worthless without Tactical Cloak's damage. Not all of them are as well off as the Geth Infiltrator. The N7 Shadow would be crippled by not having that 130% melee damage boost.

 

You would also force some weapon users into being grenade spammers, because that's the only useful thing damage wise that kits like the QFI or N7 Destroyer would have left.

[lightswitch]

What, that other people have different opinions than yours? I know, unbelievable, right...

More just that someone in Spectre could be so incredibly wrong.

[Deerber]

More just that someone in Spectre could be so incredibly wrong.

I see. I guess even this isn't an absolute statement, is it?

Oh well. I'm sure you'll learn, one day.

[d_nought]

Saber Quarksman on PC

 

Typhoon Destroyer on xbox

[Wizard of Ox]

On-host : TSol

 

Off-host : Destroyer

 

Also, this

 

If there was a drell soldier, this question of best soldier would never have come up 

[lightswitch]

I see. I guess even this isn't an absolute statement, is it?

Oh well. I'm sure you'll learn, one day.

 

What am I going to learn?

[Deerber]

What am I going to learn?

That most of the things you can say are your opinion and are not absolute facts

[Fortack]

and once you take away these weapon performance boosting abilities, how do you intend on compensating the weapon platforms so that they can remain competitive on damage output with the casters who now have access to weapons with the exact same stats but much better abilities?
 
Note that giving them direct damage dealing abilities in place of what they lost changes what those kits are about, and completely removes a certain playstyle from the game which goes against the idea of more customization and variety in the game.
 
Also yes, certain Infiltrators would become worthless without Tactical Cloak's damage. Not all of them are as well off as the Geth Infiltrator. The N7 Shadow would be crippled by not having that 130% melee damage boost.
 
You would also force some weapon users into being grenade spammers, because that's the only useful thing damage wise that kits like the QFI or N7 Destroyer would have left.

 
Sorry, I have no idea what playstyle(s) you're referring to.

 

When you remove stuff you obviously gonna replace it with something else. Why does the Shadow also has to have a massive weapon damage bonus? You could simply make her melee stronger instead. You're creating problems without seeing the obvious and simple answers here.

 

If certain kits rely for a huge part on a random damage bonus they are badly designed and need to be reworked. Forgive me for saying this, but I am getting a bit tired of being forced to defend myself for stuff that is not going to be changed anyway. I am talking about how I believe it is best to build the power and weapon part of a ME style game. It's difficult for me to understand, that you of all people - Cyonan the GameMechanicGuru -, cannot think of other stuff, based on what there is currently available, to replace the weapon bonuses in the power section, and (still) have (more) fun kits to play with. 

[Argent Xero]

More just that someone in Spectre could be so incredibly wrong.

you seem to have standards for something you're not apart of, which is irrelevant to this discussion.

in any case...

unbelievable

Feel free to tell me how wrong I am.