I noticed that Leliana was out dpsing me with two enchanted Daggers. Makes me wonder if I was wrong in always bringing a Sword and Shield Warrior with me.
I'm level 8 and I also notice that I do better damage without shield wall turned on. I think maybe a two-hander with 2 Strength 1 Dex. might work better.
What's you experience?
I never expect my S+S tank to do much DPS. His (since it's usually Alistair) job is to draw and hold aggro so the squishier, DPS dealing party members can do the damage. When I run Alistair as a heavy armour high dexterity dual wielder, he does considerably more dps than his tank, a S+S f!Cousland, and that is exactly what I want. (And I mostly like to run them as a crippled all-warrior party, just Warden/Alistair/Dog. Actually makes Nightmare difficulty worth doing and it's a lot more fun. IMO.)
@cJohnOne
As theskymoves said, the point of a tank is not DPS, but keeping the attention of the enemy securely away from whoever does DPS on your team. And to make enemies turn their backs in the direction of your rogue's twin daggers.
That said, at higher levels a tank does higher DPS with a longsword or axe than a two-hander or dagger-wielder on auto-attack, because of b0rked bonus factors in relation to attack speed. Even Momentum alone does not turn the tables, you need to add crits and backstabbing for daggers to really out-DPS a good longsword or axe. And two-handers need to spam abilities and/or face enemies with high armour rating in order to shine.
But the real question is what your question actually is. Are you looking for a direction for your warrior Warden? Or do you want to know whether dragging Alistair along is actually helpful? It all depends on what you want to do.
My newer Wardens all handed Leliana's Chantry robe to Alistair the first time they saw him after picking her up, and left him to bicker with Morrigan at camp while the team went to war*. Perfect solution to the Alistair question. 100% success rate.
*) Alistair got un-mothballed on two occasions during the last three campaigns but I needn't have bothered. Soloing Cauthrien turned out to be less hassle than fighting with a team, and when I wanted Alistair to tank Loghain during the Landsmeet brawl he couldn't, because of broken scripting that had Loghain chase Leliana until he croaked.
Because it is my favourite DAO picture, here is a snapshot of three rogues with Morrigan. Not a tank in the mix.
It was a very fun playthrough. The battle with the spider queen was highly amusing.
@ms-how do you find the pet DPS compare to your rogue's DPS. Just looking at the wikia-it seems a master ranger's pet stats will be 90% of your PCs, and they seem to get stronger each levelup.
Tanks-they can do a lot of damage even without momentum. A hasted high strength tank with Assault/Overpower+ Shield mastery will do enough damage to take aggro off your DPS members, even if you never use Taunt or Threaten. Veshialle is ideal for that sort of tank.
Not to forget Blood Thirst and Swift Salve. However, the flip side of the high sustained auto-attack DPS of the S&S tank is the total lack of AoE attacks or serious peak DPS.
Fun-wise they benefit much more from a support team than other types of characters. Wynne for hasting, healing and buffing, Leliana for Mark of the Assassin and background DPS and all her other excellent qualities, Morrigan to cone enemies for a quick shatter and to make the others wait their turn.
Not to forget Blood Thirst and Swift Salve. However, the flip side of the high sustained auto-attack DPS of the S&S tank is the total lack of AoE attacks or serious peak DPS.
Holy Smite will work really well as a group knockdown.it'll never do a lot of damage, but the knockdown can be really useful.
@ms-how do you find the pet DPS compare to your rogue's DPS. Just looking at the wikia-it seems a master ranger's pet stats will be 90% of your PCs, and they seem to get stronger each levelup.
Sadly, I have no idea. That picture is over two years old. The saved game no longer exists.
Holy Smite will work really well as a group knockdown.it'll never do a lot of damage, but the knockdown can be really useful.
My Cousland Warrior and Alistair are both Templar/Champions (roleplay precludes me from using specialisations like Berserker or Reaver for either of them) and by both of them using a rotation of Holy Smite/Warcry+Superiority/cooldown rinse repeat I don't miss having or need a mage in the party for CC.
Sadly, I have no idea. That picture is over two years old. The saved game no longer exists.
That's a shame. I got a bit interested in the pet DPS when i noticed that the bear Nathaniel summoned was doing 60 points of damage with each attack at level 25.It's definitely a spec that deserves a second look.
(roleplay precludes me from using specialisations like Berserker or Reaver for either of them)
That's like saying a Sith would rather die than cast a healing spell on themselves. Or like rejecting blood magic for your mage simply because some characters in the game have been conditioned into a strange, superstitious phobia in that regard (e.g. Wynne). It isn't role-playing, it's head canon.
Unless you're playing a character with strange, superstitious phobias, your role as Warden would have you more focussed on things like the Blight than whether your character cannot be allowed that power simply because it would be unwise to allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to have it. The army tends to use automatic weapons and explosives even in countries were civilians are barred from owning them.
That's like saying a Sith would rather die than cast a healing spell on themselves. Or like rejecting blood magic for your mage simply because some characters in the game have been conditioned into a strange, superstitious phobia in that regard (e.g. Wynne). It isn't role-playing, it's head canon.
Unless you're playing a character with strange, superstitious phobias, your role as Warden would have you more focussed on things like the Blight than whether your character cannot be allowed that power simply because it would be unwise to allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to have it. The army tends to use automatic weapons and explosives even in countries were civilians are barred from owning them.
You don't have to have "a strange, superstitious phobia" to find eating people's souls for power*Reaver*,using a power that's strongly linked to demons and allows you to control someone against their will*Blood Mage* or losing self-control and going into a mindless rage*Berserker* distasteful and/or morally objectionable.
That's like saying a Sith would rather die than cast a healing spell on themselves. Or like rejecting blood magic for your mage simply because some characters in the game have been conditioned into a strange, superstitious phobia in that regard (e.g. Wynne). It isn't role-playing, it's head canon.
Unless you're playing a character with strange, superstitious phobias, your role as Warden would have you more focussed on things like the Blight than whether your character cannot be allowed that power simply because it would be unwise to allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to have it. The army tends to use automatic weapons and explosives even in countries were civilians are barred from owning them.
How about you "roleplay" your way and I'll roleplay the way I want to? 
Reavers don't eat people's souls for power, they extract residual energy exactly like mages via Death Syphon and Death Magic.
The fact that blood magic makes it possible to control someone against their will and have them fight for you makes it extremely dangerous but doesn't warrant that kind of phobia either (except has an indirect means of controlling the use of such power within the population). It would be a different matter if using blood magic weakened the Veil or something, as happens with similar powers in other worlds.
Some people dislike losing control and hence would have reason to dislike Berserker if they believed the boilerplate. They same holds for Reaver and blood magic - you would have strong reasons to find them distasteful and objectionable if you believed the Chantry claptrap.
I forgot one reason in my earlier post: one reason to refrain from acquiring/using these abilities would be out of consideration for your companions, some of whom definitely suffer from aforementioned phobias.
Reavers don't eat people's souls for power, they extract residual energy exactly like mages via Death Syphon and Death Magic.
The fact that blood magic makes it possible to control someone against their will and have them fight for you makes it extremely dangerous but doesn't warrant that kind of phobia either (except has an indirect means of controlling the use of such power within the population). It would be a different matter if using blood magic weakened the Veil or something, as happens with similar powers in other worlds.
Some people dislike losing control and hence would have reason to dislike Berserker if they believed the boilerplate. They same holds for Reaver and blood magic - you would have strong reasons to find them distasteful and objectionable if you believed the Chantry claptrap.
I forgot one reason in my earlier post: one reason to refrain from acquiring/using these abilities would be out of consideration for your companions, some of whom definitely suffer from aforementioned phobias.
Wrong:
"Reavers terrorize their enemies, feast upon the souls of their slain opponents "
Unless you find mind control distasteful and are concerned with using a power strongly linked to demons as I said, and funnily enough it does as we see at Soldier's Peak.
Thank you for completely ignoring the ethical reasons and legitimate concerns I gave that have nothing to do with the "Chantry Claptrap" as you called it.
How about you "roleplay" your way and I'll roleplay the way I want to?
Anyone can and will play however they like, and that's exactly as it should be. Whatever gives one the most fun in the game is the most right way to play it.
However, I'm somewhat tired of seeing the term 'role-playing' misused. Either as a figleaf to lend mere preference an air of objectivity or authority, or as a stick to beat people with who don't subscribe to the make-believe costume party head canon (mis-)interpretation of 'role-playing' which seems endemic - and limited to - CRPG forums.
Outside of these forums the term 'role-playing' always has a functional, objective core. Just like the concept of 'identity', it is more about how people are like others than about how they are different.
Writing your own adventure - much like a novelist or film scripter would - as you stumble through the world of Ferelden or Vvardenfell or whatever is an extremely important part of games like these, and it can lead to interesting discoveries. It is also intricately linked to role-playing, in the same way that squishy matter complements a skeleton into a fully-fledged being. You couldn't separate them without destroying something, but they are not one and the same.
Anyone can and will play however they like, and that's exactly as it should be. Whatever gives one the most fun in the game is the most right way to play it.
However, I'm somewhat tired of seeing the term 'role-playing' misused. Either as a figleaf to lend mere preference an air of objectivity or authority, or as a stick to beat people with who don't subscribe to the make-believe costume party head canon (mis-)interpretation of 'role-playing' which seems endemic - and limited to - CRPG forums.
Outside of these forums the term 'role-playing' always has a functional, objective core. Just like the concept of 'identity', it is more about how people are like others than about how they are different.
Writing your own adventure - much like a novelist or film scripter would - as you stumble through the world of Ferelden or Vvardenfell or whatever is an extremely important part of games like these, and it can lead to interesting discoveries. It is also intricately linked to role-playing, in the same way that squishy matter complements a skeleton into a fully-fledged being. You couldn't separate them without destroying something, but they are not one and the same.
And how does a Warden having ethics and principles they won't compromise go against role-playing exactly?
Wrong:
"Reavers terrorize their enemies, feast upon the souls of their slain opponents "
Unless you find mind control distasteful and are concerned with using a power strongly linked to demons as I said, and funnily enough it does as we see at Soldier's Peak.
Thank you for completely ignoring the ethical reasons and legitimate concerns I gave that have nothing to do with the "Chantry Claptrap" as you called it.
I have a nice spell for you to buy at a very competitive price. It's called Mana Cleanse. And quite a few others as well.
I have a nice spell for you to buy at a very competitive price. It's called Mana Cleanse. And quite a few others as well.
<*His Mages don't use spirit spells*
I see that going all Strength for a 2-handed Warrior is probably the best way to go but I'm also trying to do different builds and see if they will work through the game. It's a good point that going for more DPS is better than getting a little defense.
I also thought that since Leliana is doing so well using below the belt maybe I'd use that instead of Momentum to use the stamina pool efficiently. Is that an okay plan to do?
Hmm... Usually, when I bring Shale, she tends to do a fairly good amount of dmg. I did a two-hander city elf Berserker/Reaver warrior playthrough and I was able to tank and deal the most dmg out of everyone. I put most of my attribute points into strength and constitution. 2 for strength and 1 for constitution until I maxed the 2-hander ability tree, then 2 into constitution and 1 into willpower so I could grow my stamina pool. Devour really helped when I started losing health. Two-handed sweep really helped when I'd get surrounded. And Indomitable, well... No stuns, knockdowns, or any other physical affects other than getting knocked back if an enemy tried to knock me down. I demolished the archdemon, though I had to use a health poultice every so often, and it was difficult to keep everyone else fighting. But I did, and I killed that motherf@*#er.
When I play as a S&S tank, I put one point each into dexterity, strength, and constitution. When I've maxed out the S&S ability tree, I focus more into constitution. Need that health to keep standing.
I did fight the high dragon without a tank, though. Once. I was playing as my elf mage (Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage) and I brought Morrigan, Wynne, and Leliana with me. All ranged attacks. It took a while, but it worked. I had to keep moving everyone back so the dragon couldn't swipe at anyone, but occasionally, some one would fall and I'd have Wynne revive them. Odd thing is, Wynne and Leliana didn't get hit all that much. Just me and Morrigan. Oh well, I killed it. End of story.
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