39 réponses à ce sujet

[Blazomancer]

@cJohnOne - Initially perhaps. But not using Momentum can be counterproductive later on.

[DarthGizka]

I also thought that since Leliana is doing so well using below the belt maybe I'd use that instead of Momentum to use the stamina pool efficiently.  Is that an okay plan to do? 

 

Below the Belt is nice if you can afford it, and it has interesting tactical uses when you're soloing. But Momentum is so awesome that you simply have to get if you can get it at all.

 

The good thing about having so many different companions is that you can test-drive certain abilities and spells thoroughly even if you don't have a Warden parked somewhere at just the right point for such tests. One caveat, though: it is sometimes difficult to get out of the mindset related to the current type of fighter to appreciate the finer details of some other class. A rogue Warden uses a rogue in ways that are different from what warrior or mage Warden would do, because they tend to prefer different approaches when solving the same problems. Hence the necessity for the canonical three playthroughs - warrior, rogue and mage.

[Blazomancer]

In regards to the spell picked up by a mage, I think if the warden picks up any specialization at all, there'd always be an argument against his/her ethics. Well, technically at least. Spirit Healer is basically channeling energy from spirits, although allegedly benevolent ones. Now I'm sure the chantry might consider a spirit benevolent as long as it's still in the Fade and useful without spilling guts. I'm doubtful however if 'Justice' and Abom'wynne'ation would be seen in the same light by the chantry. Or by common folks for that matter, when they are told how spirit healers do what they do. Arcane warrior is again taught by a trapped spirit although the spells themselves have nothing to do with spirits. Shapeshifter, though most likely creation based, is taught by an apostate and blood magic is well, blood magic.

[Shadow Fox]

In regards to the spell picked up by a mage, I think if the warden picks up any specialization at all, there'd always be an argument against his/her ethics. Well, technically at least. Spirit Healer is basically channeling energy from spirits, although allegedly benevolent ones. Now I'm sure the chantry might consider a spirit benevolent as long as it's still in the Fade and useful without spilling guts. I'm doubtful however if 'Justice' and Abom'wynne'ation would be seen in the same light by the chantry. Or by common folks for that matter, when they are told how spirit healers do what they do. Arcane warrior is again taught by a trapped spirit although the spells themselves have nothing to do with spirits. Shapeshifter, though most likely creation based, is taught by an apostate and blood magic is well, blood magic.

That's the thing:

 

Arcane Warrior,Battlemage,Keeper and Shapeshifter don't require you to become an abomination or tear the veil to use it, nor do they allow mental manipulation.

 

None of the Rogue specs involve eating souls,being an abomination,mind control or a loss of self control neither do the Champion,Templar or Defender specs for Warriors.

[DarthGizka]

Regarding blood magic I see the fundamental question in whether it is harmful as such - by weakening the Veil or by making it easier for demons to take over whoever uses that kind of magic - or whether it is simply too powerful to tolerate individuals walking around with it. Cullen had interesting things to say that shed some light on why the Chantry may have instigated that particular witch hunt.

 

In that sense blood magic is probably more like handguns, automatic weapons and explosives in civilised countries than, say, biological weapons (for which there are no legitimate uses).

[Shadow Fox]

Regarding blood magic I see the fundamental question in whether it is harmful as such - by weakening the Veil or by making it easier for demons to take over whoever uses that kind of magic - or whether it is simply too powerful to tolerate individuals walking around with it. Cullen had interesting things to say that shed some light on why the Chantry may have instigated that particular witch hunt.

 

In that sense blood magic is probably more like handguns, automatic weapons and explosives in civilised countries than, say, biological weapons (for which there are no legitimate uses).

I think the primary practical issue aside from possible veil sundering is blood magic can't be easily detected or countered.

[DarthGizka]

Yep, that's what Cullen had to say. Which moves the use of blood magic from the realm of ethics to that of law and order, politics and control.

[Blazomancer]

@Mercury Elf - That is true. I never said otherwise. What I'm saying is that the process of unlocking Arcane warrior and Shapeshifter can also be seen as unethical by someone. Afterall, what reason could a mage warden have to trust an ancient trapped spirit or an apostate, other than taking a leap of faith. The fact that it all turns out well is metagaming knowledge.

[Shadow Fox]

@Mercury Elf - That is true. I never said otherwise. What I'm saying is that the process of unlocking Arcane warrior and Shapeshifter can also be seen as unethical by someone. Afterall, what reason could a mage warden have to trust an ancient trapped spirit or an apostate, other than taking a leap of faith. The fact that it all turns out well is metagaming knowledge.

True I was talking about the uses of such magic rather then the method of acquiring it, besides you can learn Shapeshifter from a book in Origins as well right?

[DarthGizka]

Afterall, what reason could a mage warden have to trust an ancient trapped spirit or an apostate, other than taking a leap of faith. The fact that it all turns out well is metagaming knowledge.

 

And trusting the Chantry requires no such leap of faith? 'Apostate' is simply a label affixed by the Chantry and the templars for the purpose of maintaining a monopoly of power. It says nothing about the worthiness or lack thereof of the person so labelled.

[Shadow Fox]

And trusting the Chantry requires no such leap of faith? 'Apostate' is simply a label affixed by the Chantry and the templars for the purpose of maintaining a monopoly of power. It says nothing about the worthiness or lack thereof of the person so labelled.

Exactly it's more an issue of trusting a self admitted manipulator and liar like Morrigan.

[Blazomancer]

@DarthGizka - Perhaps I should't have used the word 'apostate'. It's basically about trusting someone like Morrigan.

@Mercury Elf - Yes, the manual for Shapeshifter can be bought. I completely forgot about that.

[DarthGizka]

@DarthGizka - Perhaps I should't have used the word 'apostate'. It's basically about trusting someone like Morrigan.

 

How far to trust Morrigan and Flemeth is a difficult question, and I'm no closer to answering it now than I was that first time in the Korcari Wilds, long ago. Although I've grown rather fond of the old hag, to be honest, and I have cooled towards Morrigan.

 

In any case I would never base my judgement on the fact that the templars would have killed them or dragged them to a concentration camp given half the chance. Consequently, none of my Wardens do.

 

P.S.: AFAICS, all specialisations can be acquired from manuals although some of them are only available in Awakening, not in Origins.

[Mike3207]

You'll actually pull aggro from the tank using certain of the shapeshifter special abilities. Bear Form's Slam for sure, Overwhelm a high probability as well, maybe Divide the Swarm. Not so sure about Spider Form's Poison Spit or Web. In any case, if your shapeshifter does enough damage you might not even need a tank.

[cJohnOne]

The next PC Character I do is going to be a 2-hander going 2 points Strength 1 point Dex.  And I'll be bring along Leliana and Zevran as DW rogues and Wynne as a healer!