88 réponses à ce sujet

[Kira_Sadi]

it depends on who my Hawke is really and what he/she wants to do. If he/she stands with the chantry he/ she will help Petrice.

[congokong]

Petrice is a straw man meant to make you sympathize with the qunari; even if as a mage you have very little to like about them. Neither the chantry nor qunari treat mages well, but the chantry is as an above poster said the "enemy you know" who doesn't collar their mages.

 

However, even if you don't agree with the qunari from a non meta-gaming standpoint you shouldn't really want to side with Petrice. Even if you don't like the qunari, you shouldn't want to encourage holy war with them by aiding Petrice. At that point the qunari were for the most part just loitering in Kirkwall.

[congokong]

Why "shouldn't" I? Says who?

 

I hate them.

 

As in, literally "hate". The kind of hate Meeran has for that one noble in the beginning of DA2. "May the vultures feast on his corpse and sh*t him out into the ocean."

 

The Qunari are "coming" anyways, according to Sten and the Arishok. Might as well make it a holy war, if it's going to happen anyways. They're bent on conquest and proselytizing people.

 

That and they remind me too much of Sharia law. Which I also hate. It hits a little too close to home.

 

What I said is from a non meta-gaming perspective. Hawke wouldn't know what Sten said nor that the Arishok would wage war on Kirkwall. Hawke was tasked by the Viscount to keep the peace. Sure, you can do whatever you want. I don't see much incentive of helping Petrice of the Chantry who tried to kill you in order to start a holy war against the Viscount's wishes unless I wanted to just cause trouble.

[congokong]

I don't care what the Viscount wants. He's an effiminate little fool. And his son is slumming with heretics. I fully sympathize with Petrice on that subject.

 

I hate the little bit of railroading there though with his son.. how the Viscount says Saemus has chilled a bit, due to "our example". What example is that?

 

Elthina is kind of a similar character as the Viscount. But at least I get to call her "useless".

 

I don't like the Viscount (or Petrice or the Qunari) either but why would you want to encourage a war unless you just hate boring? Petrice was just accelerating what happened at the end of Act 2; something the city wanted to avoid.

[congokong]

Why?

 

If there's one thing I like about the Arishok and the Qunari, it's "Certainty". I have it too, with some subjects. I don't see any use for peace here. I see something I want to challenge and fight (whether here or perhaps later in future games. DA2 is more like a prelude, I guess). Petrice also has certainty.. one I can side with.

 

I think there's a good reason only Aggressive Hawke can do it. They're the ones with certainty.

What are we even arguing about here? I swear people come onto message boards just to lash out at something.

[KaiserShep]

I don't care what the Viscount wants. He's an effiminate little fool. And his son is slumming with heretics. I fully sympathize with Petrice on that subject.
 
I hate the little bit of railroading there though with his son.. how the Viscount says Saemus has chilled a bit, due to "our example". What example is that?
 
Elthina is kind of a similar character as the Viscount. But at least I get to call her "useless".

Thing is, what the Viscount wants is to not have people dying in the streets in droves. If that's not something you care about, then fair enough. As for heretics, I can't say that this is much to care about, but then I'm a filthy heathen who honors gods less than I do jury notices.

[KaiserShep]

This is a city, not a fort. No matter what, there's going to be non-combatants (children, the elderly, etc.) caught in the middle should the qunari decide to tear through the streets, regardless of how many people Petrice and her annoying Templar lackey can stir up. These people will quite simply die. As I said, if their deaths are not of any concern, then that's pretty much the end of it. It's fine and good to want to destroy the qunari, but then it's a question of whether or not the collateral damage and loss of life is worth the trouble if they can be gotten rid of peacefully.

[KaiserShep]

That is patently false. All cities have non-combatants of some sort. Among a civilian population, there's always going to be a number of people who are simply untrained for battle, and some who are simply incapable of doing so anyway. While the game doesn't really give you a good impression of the population, a densely populated city is going to have lots of families who are largely defenseless should someone tear through the streets and kill people on sight. Again, it boils down to whether or not this matters. I can see that it clearly does not. This is kind of why I'm overly hostile towards Petrice's faction as equally as I am against what I know of the Qun. Both seem to be run by holier than thou arseholes that are dead set on having everyone around them die for their foolish principles, but at least the latter are more up-front about it.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Interesting discussion going on here. Just want to weigh-in...

 

I like the spirit and principles of the Qun. It's actually one of my favorite things about this setting, because it takes these values I really like, and then puts them into action in ways that are very "grey" to me (ways that I can sometimes support, and sometimes cannot).

 

When the Arishok talks about the Karasten, defends his actions regarding the elven converts, and when Tallis talks about what they stand for, I agree with all of it. It's just when those principles are put into practice that I can't quite get behind it, like leashing mages or hunting down and killing those who leave it -- just too extreme. I also feel as though those things can be done differently without going against the principles behind them. So, again, this is a part of Dragon Age that really moves me. In the spirit of that, my canon Inquistor will be a vashoth Knight-Enchanter named Ashkaari who similarly grapples with Qunari values versus Qunari practice, and seeks to find "enlightenment" through helping benefit society while upholding only these general principles. So basically my protagonist will be a prophet, of sorts... lol.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Anyway, my preferred method of dealing with Petrice is to side with Varnell at the rally (making her look very silly for trying to set you up), then call it off your alliance at the Chantry -- where she'll admit that killing Saemus is her doing rather than try to set you up yet again -- with Aveline in the party. You basically trick her into admitting to murder in front of the Captain of the Guard, after she has tried to frame you time and again -- beaten at her own game.

[congokong]

Anyway, my preferred method of dealing with Petrice is to side with Varnell at the rally (making her look very silly for trying to set you up), then call it off your alliance at the Chantry -- where she'll admit that killing Saemus is her doing rather than try to set you up yet again -- with Aveline in the party. You basically trick her into admitting to murder in front of the Captain of the Guard, after she has tried to frame you time and again -- beaten at her own game.

That's clever. Does it actually change anything though? She kind of admits to killing Saemus no matter what you do and who you're with.

 

 

 Interesting discussion going on here. Just want to weigh-in...

 

I like the spirit and principles of the Qun. It's actually one of my favorite things about this setting, because it takes these values I really like, and then puts them into action in ways that are very "grey" to me (ways that I can sometimes support, and sometimes cannot).

 

When the Arishok talks about the Karasten, defends his actions regarding the elven converts, and when Tallis talks about what they stand for, I agree with all of it. It's just when those principles are put into practice that I can't quite get behind it, like leashing mages or hunting down and killing those who leave it -- just too extreme. I also feel as though those things can be done differently without going against the principles behind them. So, again, this is a part of Dragon Age that really moves me. In the spirit of that, my canon Inquistor will be a vashoth Knight-Enchanter named Ashkaari who similarly grapples with Qunari values versus Qunari practice, and seeks to find "enlightenment" through helping benefit society while upholding only these general principles. So basically my protagonist will be a prophet, of sorts... lol.

 

The Qun bothers me for several reasons.

 

1. Its "certainty" is unquestioned.

 

The notion that the qun may be inaccurate does not occur to qunari. This reminds me too much of religion and I hate religion. Writings like the Holy Bible, Quran, and United States' Constitution were written by men. Yet many treat such things as if they can't be wrong.

 

2. It puts its members in a type of caste system.

 

The big difference between quarni and dwarves is that all quanari are said to be "equal" unlike dwarves. Yet they follow the same self-fulfilling prophecy by having people be born into certain roles. People are too diverse to grouped this way.

 

3. Following the qun is more important than the qunari; the very people the qun is meant for.

 

Example: If you go to the arishok after that sarebas kills himself in "Shepherding Wolves," all the arishok cares about is that the qun has been followed with the mage dying and the mage-hunter qunari going after him. It doesn't matter that they all were slain. While such coldness could be rationalized on paper by removing any gray areas regarding duty, what is the point? Is the qun followed to bring order, give its people "meaning," or just for the sake of following the qun? What is the point of having "meaning" when you're denied choice besides living (the only choice as the serebas puts it), forced into chains for being born with magic, or killed for the sake of the qun? And even with all this imposed order of the qun there is still degrees of chaos. Its just not in a form the arishok is familiar with.

 

I could go on about it but I'll end it here.

[KaiserShep]

The Qun is a horrible system, but it serves up a great faction to be enemies with.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

That's clever. Does it actually change anything though? She kind of admits to killing Saemus no matter what you do and who you're with.

 

No, it doesn't change anything, but it makes me feel like much less of a hopeless dupe at her hands.

 

Well, that, and you can also get the special dialogue-option when confronting Jeven again in Act 3.

[KaiserShep]

I don't even bother doing Saemus' Act 1 mission anymore. He's funnier in Act 2 if you don't.

 

As a compulsive quest hound, I hate skipping missions so I rarely ever get to see special dialogue for quests you neglected. What happens in Act 2 if you ignored him in Act 1?