12895 réponses à ce sujet

[Yinello]

I'm going to solve my Blackwall/Bull problem by making 2 Cadashes. One Rogue and one Warrior. 8D

[Yinello]

It sure is quiet here. More mayhem!

 

I'm curious, has IB ever actually fallen in love before? From what I read he has a lot of sex with people but that's it.

[mordy_was_here]

It sure is quiet here. More mayhem!

 

I'm curious, has IB ever actually fallen in love before? From what I read he has a lot of sex with people but that's it.

 

I'm hoping he hasn't, because I think him not knowing how to handle it would make for a fun twist to his romance. 

[Yinello]

I'm hoping he hasn't, because I think him not knowing how to handle it would make for a fun twist to his romance. 

 

That's what I was thinking! I have no doubt he'd approach us for some easy sex but when he realizes he might want more than that, it could make him confused.

[MilaBanilla]

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes 

Interesting post on Cullen and PTSD and how latter is not just rage-attacking everyone like TV thinks: http://shmegegi.tumb...t/96390092792 … cc @bbattye

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes 

For record, I don't know if Iron Bull would qualify as having PTSD. I based his attitude on soldiers returning from heavy active service.

 

 

Interesting tidbit of Iron Bull's mental state

[Puppy Love]

He just feels like the token bisexual that's into casual sex and wants to avoid a relationship and is very non-serious and joking about most things we've had in each game.  I'm so tired of the stereotype.  Zevren, Isabella, and now Iron Bull.  Sure they have a different wrapper, but romantically they are the same damn character.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

He just feels like the token bisexual that's into casual sex and wants to avoid a relationship and is very non-serious and joking about most things we've had in each game.  I'm so tired of the stereotype.  Zevren, Isabella, and now Iron Bull.  Sure they have a different wrapper, but romantically they are the same damn character.

Ok firstly, Bulls pansexual. Secondly the game isn't out yet so reserve your judgement until then.

[Puppy Love]

Ok firstly, Bulls pansexual. Secondly the game isn't out yet so reserve your judgement until then.

Pansexual and bisexual are not far enough a part to remove the stereotype.  The stereo type being, if you're attracted to more than one sex, you avoid commitment and prefer to have casual sex.  In two games we've already had this flagrant stereotype, and Bull has been described in the same light.

[Kalyppso]

Pansexual and bisexual are not far enough a part to remove the stereotype.  The stereo type being, if you're attracted to more than one sex, you avoid commitment and prefer to have casual sex.  In two games we've already had this flagrant stereotype, and Bull has been described in the same light.

I do not feel that Zevran's sexuality was the cause of his fear of commitment. Leliana didn't fall into this stereotype, and I do not think you should dismiss her being bisexual even if she romances a male Warden. Merrill could also be a counter-argument to this stereotype, though Fenris and Anders were awkward enough that it was hard to tell in their cases. Isabela was ... a little disgusting in my opinion, though I know there are many who loved her.

Additionally, we do not know whether Bull has a fear of commitment; enjoying casual sex while not in a relationship does not make this a certainty. If anything, his maintained loyalty to the Qun and not having a prescribed role in romance is probably going to be new to him, whether he dives in or tests the waters. I'm not under the impression he was always expressing his sexual preferences so openly, even when not in his home country; I'm just glad they're not describing it as a biproduct of a mid-life crisis (as far as I'm aware).

I'm not trying to change your mind, just voicing an opposition so that it doesn't go unvoiced.

[Puppy Love]

I do not feel that Zevran's sexuality was the cause of his fear of commitment. Leliana didn't fall into this stereotype, and I do not think you should dismiss her being bisexual even if she romances a male Warden. Merrill could also be a counter-argument to this stereotype, though Fenris and Anders were awkward enough that it was hard to tell in their cases. Isabela was ... a little disgusting in my opinion, though I know there are many who loved her.

Additionally, we do not know whether Bull has a fear of commitment; enjoying casual sex while not in a relationship does not make this a certainty. If anything, his maintained loyalty to the Qun and not having a prescribed role in romance is probably going to be new to him, whether he dives in or tests the waters. I'm not under the impression he was always expressing his sexual preferences so openly, even when not in his home country; I'm just glad they're not describing it as a biproduct of a mid-life crisis (as far as I'm aware).

I'm not trying to change your mind, just voicing an opposition so that it doesn't go unvoiced.

I'm not discounting the characters that don't fit this.  I'd be happier if the had a straight character or maybe gay be this way though and avoid making it once again another character who likes multiple sexes.  I also realize there's different nuances with each character.  I, however, dislike that it feels like "Oh we have a character who's into casual sex, Bi/Pan whatever would fit them perfectly" is the thought pattern here, when being into casual sex has nothing to do with that.

 

One character, sure, but we have three potential characters in three games in a row where all the casual sex characters are characters who is bi or pan.  That's my issue.  I don't like the stereotype being repeated.

 

I hope I'm wrong and Bull does not truly repeat this, I have my doubts though. 

 

I just would rather, if they're going to insist on such a romance they change it up a little, and calling Bull pansexual is not really doing that, especially when people still debate whether pan and bi are truly different sexualities.

[Kalyppso]

I'm not discounting the characters that don't fit this.  I'd be happier if the had a straight character or maybe gay be this way though and avoid making it once again another character who likes multiple sexes.  I also realize there's different nuances with each character.  I, however, dislike that it feels like "Oh we have a character who's into casual sex, Bi/Pan whatever would fit them perfectly" is the thought pattern here, when being into casual sex has nothing to do with that.
 
One character, sure, but we have three potential characters in three games in a row where all the casual sex characters are characters who is bi or pan.  That's my issue.  I don't like the stereotype being repeated.
 
I hope I'm wrong and Bull does not truly repeat this, I have my doubts though. 
 
I just would rather, if they're going to insist on such a romance they change it up a little, and calling Bull pansexual is not really doing that, especially when people still debate whether pan and bi are truly different sexualities.

I don't think that's fair to the Dragon Age romances when only two characters have been straight so far. There hasn't been accurate representation of other sexualities for there to really be a benchmark on whether they are promiscuous or not.

I don't know who is having these debates, I've heard people on the internet claim they exist but in my real life? ... Knowing someone and being someone does influence your definitions of what it is to be bi or pansexual, it doesn't exclude there being alternate definitions of either sexuality, but I wouldn't be one to say they are indiscernible one from another.

Anyway, I think that we don't know enough about Sera or Blackwall for you to assume that these homosexual or heterosexual characters are not also being portrayed as appreciating casual sex. Maybe they go to the brothels with Bull? Blackwall especially, being short on time what with his Calling approaching, will probably also not be eager to force a woman into an inevitable tragedy?

[Yinello]

 

 

 

 

Interesting tidbit of Iron Bull's mental state

 

 

I admit, I'm a little worried about that. Every soldier after heavy service acts differently of course but sometimes they tend to get quite hostile. I've been in an abusive relationship with someone who had mental problems in the past so if IB lashes out in a way that terrifies me or if his romance path is where you 'heal' him just because you're just that awesome, I fear I won't like him at all.

 

That said, I can't really see Bioware doing that. I think that IB might have nightmares and could continue having them but that the Inquisitor could help make things better, if not inspire IB to at least try.

[Potato Cat]

As a bisexual, I have to agree with Puppy Love. The idea of a promiscuous bisexual/pansexual is a very prevalent and biphobic stereotype in the media, one that Dragon Age has unfortunately had in every game. Not that I don't like Zevran, Isabela as characters, or the concept of the Iron Bull, but it's certainly incredibly disheartening to see it again. I'm fine with having promiscuous characters, and of course I am more than fine with having bisexual and pansexual characters, but I fail to see why they once again have to be shown as almost one and the same.

Obviously, it's not always treated as 'This character's bisexuality makes them promiscuous' or vice versa, (although Zevran saying Crows are 'encouraged' did kind of make me roll my eyes), but constantly having the bi/pan characters be the ones who actively engage in casual sex undermines any subversion of the stereotype with bi/pan characters who don't. Very simply, in DA4, I would like the promiscuous character to be either heterosexual or homosexual.

[Kalyppso]

As a bisexual, I have to agree with Puppy Love. The idea of a promiscuous bisexual/pansexual is a very prevalent and biphobic stereotype in the media, one that Dragon Age has unfortunately had in every game. Not that I don't like Zevran, Isabela as characters, or the concept of the Iron Bull, but it's certainly incredibly disheartening to see it again. I'm fine with having promiscuous characters, and of course I am more than fine with having bisexual and pansexual characters, but I fail to see why they once again have to be shown as almost one and the same.

Obviously, it's not always treated as 'This character's bisexuality makes them promiscuous' or vice versa, (although Zevran saying Crows are 'encouraged' did kind of make me roll my eyes), but constantly having the bi/pan characters be the ones who actively engage in casual sex undermines any subversion of the stereotype with bi/pan characters who don't. Very simply, in DA4, I would like the promiscuous character to be either heterosexual or homosexual.

To quote myself.

I don't think that's fair to the Dragon Age romances when only two characters have been straight so far. There hasn't been accurate representation of other sexualities for there to really be a benchmark on whether they are promiscuous or not.

I also don't feel that you, or anyone should feel the need to express their sexuality as point and purpose to support their statements. Your a person and your opinion and interpretation is valid, it doesn't need to be validated. I can see what the both of you are getting at, and am not even disagreeing that it can be interpret as a problem, but I am trying to say that there are other avenues of looking at this. How many other characters do you encounter in gaming that are bisexual? How many characters in media as a whole? If I concede that Zevran falls into this stereotype (though I disagree vehemently) and most certainly agree that Isabela does, then that is 2/6 bisexuals in Dragon Age who are promiscuous. It is not the majority, and it not meant to represent the majority or people, bisexuals or any other congregations of people in Dragon Age or real life. I would not say that Isabela is representative of bisexuals, neither that Bull is a poster child for pansexuals - I was floored when a game developer said the word pansexual (tweeted, whatever), he opens the doors for future pansexual characters, and I don't expect them to be like him.

Iron Bull is a unique person / character in my opinion, and he doesn't offend me.

@_@ Got a little empassioned there. Sorry if I offended anyone, especially Potato Cat and Puppy Love. I do respect when you're both coming from, and hope that you can enjoy the game regardless.

[SofaJockey]

A quick link, I thought you might like to know there's a fresh poll running of preferred love interests to romance following the reveals:

 

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/dailis

 

Thread: http://forum.bioware...est-to-romance/

 

Thank you 

[CuriousArtemis]

I just would rather, if they're going to insist on such a romance they change it up a little, and calling Bull pansexual is not really doing that, especially when people still debate whether pan and bi are truly different sexualities.

 

As I understand it, a pansexual person doesn't see gender, or rather, gender doesn't enter into the equation. 

 

A bisexual person is attracted to women and men, but might not feel attraction towards trans individuals or gender fluid individuals or gender neutral-presenting individuals. 

 

I think And none of that makes the bi person "bad"; I mean, you are attracted to what you're attracted to. 

 

Someone correct me if I'm misunderstanding these terms.

[Kalyppso]

As I understand it, a pansexual person doesn't see gender, or rather, gender doesn't enter into the equation. 
 
A bisexual person is attracted to women and men, but might not feel attraction towards trans individuals or gender fluid individuals or gender neutral-presenting individuals. 
 
I think And none of that makes the bi person "bad"; I mean, you are attracted to what you're attracted to. 
 
Someone correct me if I'm misunderstanding these terms.

You're understanding is fine, it's the definitions that are up for interpretation. Pansexuality has gradients and exceptions, and people take very personally whether the bi in bisexual refers to liking male and female as genders or meaning their own gender plus alternate gender (nondescript), as well as whether bisexual as a term excludes liking trans or gender fluid individuals or not.

Those two specific things I've mentioned now about bisexuality are actually based on conversations had here in the Iron Bull Thread, and are not things I'd experienced in my personal life or on other forums (not that I spend much / any time on other forums).

The pansexual gradients I referred to do have to do with personal experience though.

[leaguer of one]

I'm going to solve my Blackwall/Bull problem by making 2 Cadashes. One Rogue and one Warrior. 8D

But how's it going to fit?

[leaguer of one]

Ok firstly, Bulls pansexual. Secondly the game isn't out yet so reserve your judgement until then.

...Wait. How is he pansexual different from Bisexual?

[Kalyppso]

...Wait. How is he pansexual different from Bisexual?

D: There were just two posts about this. Link1. Link2.
Images:

Spoiler

Source

[Nefla]

Pansexual and bisexual are not far enough a part to remove the stereotype.  The stereo type being, if you're attracted to more than one sex, you avoid commitment and prefer to have casual sex.  In two games we've already had this flagrant stereotype, and Bull has been described in the same light.

This has made me a bit nervous as well, and made me think he might not take the relationship the inquisitor forms with him seriously but rather only wants a casual fling. I have to remind myself that Zevran was like that but took it seriously in the end and I did like his romance ^.^

[HuldraDancer]

I'm really hoping the Iron Bull romance isn't too much like the Zevran romance mostly the part where Zevran mentions a few times about preferring women to Wardens trying to romance him no mater which gender. Though I did like Zevran's romance I have lacked the drive to complete it as a male Warden. I wouldn't mind slight differences in Iron Bull's dialog depending on your Inquisitors gender but please no 'I really prefer X over Y'

[Wolfen09]

you only need to sleep with zevran to get the achievement i think, so i just went that far and quit.... same with allistair, i played one character, saved, then started a romance, restarted at save point and did the other, even as a female warden it felt weird romancing a guy (i am one).  I try to stick to the female romances, unless achievements are tied to them.

[Exaltation]

Spoiler

#ridethebull

[Slickchicken]

I never romanced Zevran. I find it hard to like someone who tries to kill and seduce me. I don't think Bulls romance will be like Zevrans, though they both "sleep around", they have different personalities, backgounds and experiences. I think Bull's romance will be quite interesting.