I get that a lot.
Next time I write something though, I'll try to be a little more cheerful. I got a cute idea about hot cocoa.
It was good, don't get me wrong. And your quizzy wasn't too whiny. I could see mine reacting in a similar way. The part with the necklace was perfect, bittersweet, and really underlining the bond between them.
I might be weird, but I actually enjoy writing that's able to provoke an emotional response. I just have to take it in small doses.
It was good, don't get me wrong. And your quizzy wasn't too whiny. I could see mine reacting in a similar way. The part with the necklace was perfect, bittersweet, and really underlining the bond between them.
I might be weird, but I actually enjoy writing that's able to provoke an emotional response. I just have to take it in small doses.
Ah, chucks. Thanks for your feedback.
And so do I. However, writing that kind of stuff doesn't always have be sad though. It could bittersweet, happy. Emotions are so varied after all.
But as I said, if I write more of these two; I'll try to aim for more cheerful/fluffy next time.
Nope, he doesn't. (and I just watched all my saved romance scenes before coming here.) Bull gets a lot of hate for some reason.
Sorry guys my ignorence xD, but what on earth is BSDM? I keep reading about that in many forums/social media and can´t figure it out lol.
Sorry guys my ignorence xD, but what on earth is BSDM? I keep reading about that in many forums/social media and can´t figure it out lol.
Bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism. I call it kinky sex, but that's just me.
I don't really get the backlash he seems to get either. I've heard the Qunari stuff before and I get that if that's what bothers you given the sentiments about the Qunari in Thedas. But the BDSM/D&S stuff, which is barely hinted at to me, seems to catch the most heat. You'd swear he brought out a violet wand, ball gag, and called the Quizzy his slave in the first romance scene the way some folks harp on it.Nope, he doesn't. (and I just watched all my saved romance scenes before coming here.) Bull gets a lot of hate for some reason.
I don't really get the backlash he seems to get either. I've heard the Qunari stuff before and I get that if that's what bothers you given the sentiments about the Qunari in Thedas. But the BDSM/D&S stuff, which is barely hinted at to me, seems to catch the most heat. You'd swear he brought out a violet wand, ball gag, and called the Quizzy his slave in the first romance scene the way some folks harp on it.
Oh well, we're allowed to have our opinions :-)
Oh, it's hinted at (I mean, listen to Cole's conversations about the two, and safewords people) And even with the BDSM angle, I'm very sure it's really basic tieing and blindfolding and nothing on the heavy side. One of my fav dibits:
This really gives a good insight I think being while Bull is the Dom; he isn't treating the Inquisitor as a 'slave' or in total control. He wants her/him to be conformable and safe; hench why guidelines are put out. There's respect and boundaries played out and I'm very sure Bull doesn't leave right after the deed is done. Aftercare is important and from Cole's comments, I'm very sure the Inquisitor is taken care off during and after.
Bull is a service Dom. He cares about his partners and would never do anything that the Inquisitor was fully unconformable with. In the first encounter alone you get not just one, but THREE times to back out. She/he is not force against her/his will and if this isn't what the Inquisitor wants, Bull understands and goes on his way. Consent is involved!
This is far from 50 Shades of Grey. While I did wish his romance was done a bit better in the writing department (some of the lines just make me roll my eyes), Bioware did their research on the subject. It's not for everyone, and that's fine; but calling it 'abusive' because it's BDSM is bullcrap.
Compare to Christian Grey, Iron Bull is doing everything right for the most part.
Annnnd I went on a bit of a rant here sorry. Just wanted to add my thoughts.
I think a lot of it is the amount of hate BDSM in general gets due to the crappy representation it gets in media. Heyyyyy there 50 Shades, thanks for portraying an entire lifestyle as abusive, so now anyone who knows I'm into BDSM immediately jumps to the "But that's ABUSIVE you're being ABUSED, your husband is an ABUSER" argument without having the first clue what they're talking about, real sweet of you. And then what do you know, it happens to Iron Bull too.
The upside is, it's just people who are ignorant, see an opportunity to hate on something and take the moral high road while they do it to condemn it before even trying it. People who actually give Iron Bulls romance a shot will see that the BDSM is nothing abusive or scary or anything at all, it's just a really fun way to tangle in the sheets under a great big qunari. 
There's other reasons why people hate on Iron Bull, because of the proportions his model has in game, because he's a Ben-Hassrath spy and can't be trusted, because he won't bottom for you, etc etc. I'll accept those because that's personal opinion, but I just facepalm at anyone who brings up the BDSM in his romance as a negative in any way.
Bull is a service Dom. He cares about his partners and would never do anything that the Inquisitor was fully unconformable with. In the first encounter alone you get not just one, but THREE times to back out. She/he is not force against her/his will and if this isn't what the Inquisitor wants, Bull understands and goes on his way. Consent is involved!
But..but we can't make Bull accept our terms for the relationship! Therefore, he's a controlling a***ole who thinks he knows what's best for us better than we do! (never mind that this attitude is the very thing being criticized.) And let's not even get into what that sweet little flower Dorian has to put up with.
I think a lot of it is the amount of hate BDSM in general gets due to the crappy representation it gets in media. Heyyyyy there 50 Shades, thanks for portraying an entire lifestyle as abusive, so now anyone who knows I'm into BDSM immediately jumps to the "But that's ABUSIVE you're being ABUSED, your husband is an ABUSER" argument without having the first clue what they're talking about, real sweet of you. And then what do you know, it happens to Iron Bull too.
The upside is, it's just people who are ignorant, see an opportunity to hate on something and take the moral high road while they do it to condemn it before even trying it. People who actually give Iron Bulls romance a shot will see that the BDSM is nothing abusive or scary or anything at all, it's just a really fun way to tangle in the sheets under a great big qunari.
There's other reasons why people hate on Iron Bull, because of the proportions his model has in game, because he's a Ben-Hassrath spy and can't be trusted, because he won't bottom for you, etc etc. I'll accept those because that's personal opinion, but I just facepalm at anyone who brings up the BDSM in his romance as a negative in any way.
I actually did some research (and what an interesting google adventure that was!) because I was nervous about writing something inappropriate, and I'm glad I did. From what I read, there seems to be so much emphasis on communication and respect, I find it difficult to fathom how anyone could consider it abuse. Unless you get your information from fictitious novels. A bit like using A Song of Ice and Fire to form an opinion on medieval Europe, but whatever.
Also, I'm rather fond of Bull's proportions. Just throwing that out there.
But..but we can't make Bull accept our terms for the relationship! Therefore, he's a controlling a***ole who thinks he knows what's best for us better than we do! (never mind that this attitude is the very thing being criticized.) And let's not even get into what that sweet little flower Dorian has to put up with.
I actually did some research (and what an interesting google adventure that was!) because I was nervous about writing something inappropriate, and I'm glad I did. From what I read, there seems to be so much emphasis on communication and respect, I find it difficult to fathom how anyone could consider it abuse. Unless you get your information from fictitious novels. A bit like using A Song of Ice and Fire to form an opinion on medieval Europe, but whatever.
Also, I'm rather fond of Bull's proportions. Just throwing that out there.
Yeeeup, great BDSM is basically going on an adventure with your partner to find out what kinds of kinky things you're both into, and then once you've found out what really works for you, absolutely obliterating each other with awesome sexy times. There's no shame or embarassment or pearl clutching. Sometimes it can be gloriously unsexy too, so it's always best taken with good humor and a laid back attitude. Iron Bull is a shameless, take it easy guy with great sense of humor and a mile-wide kinky streak that gets off on making the Inquisitor relaxed and comfortable and happy.
What part of this is not the best thing ever? Haha.
I wouldn't mind if Iron Bull's head was a bit bigger, (Apparently they shrunk it a bit so it would line up better during kiss scenes and that kind of thing), but otherwise I love his great big body just the way it is as well. ♥
You'd swear he brought out a violet wand, ball gag, and called the Quizzy his slave in the first romance scene the way some folks harp on it.
Now that's what I call romantic and memorable, come on Bioware get with the program 
But..but we can't make Bull accept our terms for the relationship! Therefore, he's a controlling a***ole who thinks he knows what's best for us better than we do! (never mind that this attitude is the very thing being criticized.) And let's not even get into what that sweet little flower Dorian has to put up with.
Yea, it's called turning him down peeps (and I'm not really putting this to you Denise). Clearly when you're warned and offered an out three times, the sex is clearly not gonna be vanilla. So if ya don't wanna be topped just say no and go have some fun with Cullen or Dorian.
I wouldn't mind if Iron Bull's head was a bit bigger, (Apparently they shrunk it a bit so it would line up better during kiss scenes and that kind of thing), but otherwise I love his great big body just the way it is as well. ♥
Thank goodness there is a reason why his head looks smaller. I admit that bothered me at first, but I can mostly ignore it now 
.
Yeah, I think most people would be open to experimenting with some parts of BDSM (mostly the bondage part I would think), but doing it as a lifestyle is certainly not for everyone. I know there are some aspects of the more hardcore parts that make me absolutely cringe, but I have to admire people who have that amount of trust in one another.
As far as Iron Bull goes, I think they intentionally wrote what they do behind doors as ambiguous specifically because even the mention of BDSM creeps some people out. My theory is that they want the player to headcanon how far it goes, rather than have it stated outright. That way people more people can enjoy it without having something about it offend them. Personally I don't headcanon it going much farther than bondage and some spanking, but that's mostly because I myself very much don't like pain, so it would be hard for me to play a character who's romance includes a good amount of that. But besides wanting to be in charge (at least most of the time), Bull seems like a very flexible, easy-going guy, so it's also easy to imagine him being fine with anything. If his personality was different, perhaps more aggressive or harsh, I wouldn't be interested in romancing him.
Now that's what I call romantic and memorable, come on Bioware get with the program
Yea, it's called turning him down peeps (and I'm not really putting this to you Denise). Clearly when you're warned and offered an out three times, the sex is clearly not gonna be vanilla. So if ya don't wanna be topped just say no and go have some fun with Cullen or Dorian.
Thank goodness there is a reason why his head looks smaller. I admit that bothered me at first, but I can mostly ignore it now
Lol, no worries! I completely agree. Though I wonder if I need to label that first part of my post as sarcasm.
I never really noticed the issue with his head, honestly. I've seen some super buff guys that have that same thing going on, so I just assumed it was that.
Lol, no worries! I completely agree. Though I wonder if I need to label that first part of my post as sarcasm.
I never really noticed the issue with his head, honestly. I've seen some super buff guys that have that same thing going on, so I just assumed it was that.
Lol, yeah I figured you were, why I wanted to make sure you knew that I knew you were being sarcastic 
Yeah it was the first thing I noticed on Bull, it kinda threw me at first. Course I'm not into super buff guys IRL, but Bull charmed me, and well, horns
Yeah, I think most people would be open to experimenting with some parts of BDSM (mostly the bondage part I would think), but doing it as a lifestyle is certainly not for everyone. I know there are some aspects of the more hardcore parts that make me absolutely cringe, but I have to admire people who have that amount of trust in one another.
As far as Iron Bull goes, I think they intentionally wrote what they do behind doors as ambiguous specifically because even the mention of BDSM creeps some people out. My theory is that they want the player to headcanon how far it goes, rather than have it stated outright. That way people more people can enjoy it without having something about it offend them. Personally I don't headcanon it going much farther than bondage and some spanking, but that's mostly because I myself very much don't like pain, so it would be hard for me to play a character who's romance includes a good amount of that. But besides wanting to be in charge (at least most of the time), Bull seems like a very flexible, easy-going guy, so it's also easy to imagine him being fine with anything. If his personality was different, perhaps more aggressive or harsh, I wouldn't be interested in romancing him.
Yup, the romance leaves everything for the player to decide, because Bull bases everything off of what the Inquisitor wants/needs. Cole's little snippets are suggestive, but they suggest more along the lines of orgasm denial, teasing and light restraints, nothing scary there at all. He says something like "I'll never hurt you without your permission", which means you could head cannon that they go deeper down that road, but only if the Inquisitor wants it to. Iron Bull is happy as long as the Inquisitor is, he's not interested in forcing his own kinks on an unwilling Inquisitor.
The first thing I noticed about Iron Bull was HNNNNGH HES GOT HORNS HNNNNGH HES SO BIG HNNNNGH ♥. After closer examination, I basically come up with the exact same thing. I am hopless. I think my fixation with his size comes from being the size of an elf IRL. So much muscle envy, lol.
Lol, no worries! I completely agree. Though I wonder if I need to label that first part of my post as sarcasm.
Oh thank god, I was about to make a whole reply to that one thinking you were serious. XD Saved me some trouble.
Though since we are on the subject of Dorian: I will say I wish the writing was a bit better on those two being while I doubt it is an abusive relationship and Bull cares deeply for him ("He's a sweet guy"), there are some things there that...erm, put it simple, turn me off. There are some 'red flags' there so to speak, but I blame that on bad writing so Bioware can say "HEY GUYS DORIAN AND BULL ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP! THEY'RE TOGETHER! LISTEN THEY'RE TOGETHER!!"
I don't see Bull as someone who would take advantage/abuse someone if his romance with the Inquisitor is to be believed.
I wrote a whole thing about this on my Tumblr if anyone is curious.
The way I see it, Dorian and the Inquisitor need completely different things. Maybe what Dorian needs is someone who isn't ashamed of being with him, who isn't willing to keep things a dirty little secret, and who is proud of what they do together. Dorian clutches his pearls and acts loudly ashamed of it, but in the same banter where he is acting ashamed, he finishes it up with "If you insist on leaving your door unlocked like a savage, I may or may not come." So it's pretty clear at that point that while he is struggling with the idea of their relationship being visible, he's working through it. If he told Bull to be silent and stop because he didn't want people to know, Bull undoubtedly would (and probably cut off the sex entirely as he does with the Inquisitor), but for now Iron Bull is pushing him because Dorian struggles with being ashamed of his wants/needs and that is the best way Iron Bull can help -- force it out into the open, and let Dorian see that the world isn't going to implode around him if he has a relationship with someone publically.
I think the pearl-clutching is more of an act or else Iron Bull wouldn't be so convinced that Dorian is a great guy, right? If Dorian was actually that ashamed of Iron Bull, I don't think that he would stick around. (He doesn't stick around if the Inquisitor is ashamed of him when Cassandra, Cullen and Josephine walk in, for instance. Bull is very comfortable with himself. I don't think he'd let himself be degraded into being a sex toy, the same way Dorian is fully capable of standing up to the Inquisitor and walking away when they do things he doesn't like.)
So yeah, Bioware did have to write it in a way that forces them to go public, or else we the players would never have the first clue what was going on if Iron Bull was as secritive as he is with the Inquisitor, haha. So they could have added a few more lines to smooth things all out and clarify for us, the player. As it is now, David Gaider made it clear that both Iron Bull and Dorian are fully consenting adults, and that Dorian's discomfort is simply in that he's sleeping with a big brutish Qunari when he's so determined to appear high class and sophisticated, the same way he doesn't want to admit that he enjoys Ferelden Beer because a finely bred Vint such as himself would only enjoy the finest wines, amirite?
So nothing overly harmless, a few things that could have been clarified with a bit more dialogue, but there's nothing we can do about that except headcannon it out and write lovely, lovely fanfiction.
I refuse to let other's negitive headcannons ruin the fact that we have a Tevinter Mage and a Qunari Spy overcoming their differences to have an open, homosexual relationship that begins rocky (Duh, Tevinter Mage and Qunari Spy, right?) but ends up being something big and special between the two of them. ♥ It's huge that we finally have a canon homosexual relationship, and since it's between two sexy characters I really like, I'm willing to overcome my jealousy and let them be happy in my head cannons. (My Inquisitor is totally making a Quizzie Sandwhich with the two of them though. 
)
I don't think it reflects negitively on either character. They have a lot against them as far as background, upbringings, pre-conceptions and emotional baggage, but they work through that to find happiness with each other. It's Romeo and Juliet, Dragon Age style.
Oh thank god, I was about to make a whole reply to that one thinking you were serious. XD Saved me some trouble.
Though since we are on the subject of Dorian: I will say I wish the writing was a bit better on those two being while I doubt it is an abusive relationship and Bull cares deeply for him ("He's a sweet guy"), there are some things there that...erm, put it simple, turn me off. There are some 'red flags' there so to speak, but I blame that on bad writing so Bioware can say "HEY GUYS DORIAN AND BULL ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP! THEY'RE TOGETHER! LISTEN THEY'RE TOGETHER!!"
I don't see Bull as someone who would take advantage/abuse someone if his romance with the Inquisitor is to be believed.
I wrote a whole thing about this on my Tumblr if anyone is curious.
Oh, goodness no! I adore Bull. That was me poking fun at all the crap I've read saying what a bad character he is. I wouldn't hang out on this thread if I was of the same mind.
As far as Bull and Dorian go, I have a similar view on it as Sui Causa. While I can understand the other side, the harassment some of the writers got over it was uncalled for. Experience colors perception, and I get that. But avoiding something because it makes you uncomfortable, or even drawing attention to one way something could be interpreted is a lot different than acting like your (not you personally) viewpoint is the only one with any validity. And it really seemed like that was how a lot of the rants about Bull and Dorian went.
@Sui Causa (because I didn't want to reblog that whole quote):
Oh no, I agree with where you are coming from and it's a valid argument. There's a lot of things I like about ADoriBull, but it's still hard for me to get by the things I kinda don't like. Some of the convos, while I'm sure not attentional, rub me the wrong way and personally found the three way conversation with them and Varric kinda pushing it a bit. Grated, Bull is a prude and thats why we love him; but spilling out all the details of what you do in the bedroom like that, even if Dorian is ok with it, still bothers me. In other words: there are otherwise of getting that point across without going through that, but that's just me.
But yes, both are consenting adults and if Dorian wanted out, he would have already done so. It's not like I don't like the pairing. In fact, I would have been all over it if it wasn't for some of the things that bothered me (they're both my fave characters so there you go). But hey, to each of their own, right?
Oh, goodness no! I adore Bull. That was me poking fun at all the crap I've read saying what a bad character he is. I wouldn't hang out on this thread if I was of the same mind.
Good point, but still wasn't so sure. It's hard to portray sarcasm in word in text format sometimes.
@Sui Causa (because I didn't want to reblog that whole quote):
Oh no, I agree with where you are coming from and it's a valid argument. There's a lot of things I like about ADoriBull, but it's still hard for me to get by the things I kinda don't like. Some of the convos, while I'm sure not attentional, rub me the wrong way and personally found the three way conversation with them and Varric kinda pushing it a bit. Grated, Bull is a prude and thats why we love him; but spilling out all the details of what you do in the bedroom like that, even if Dorian is ok with it, still bothers me. In other words: there are otherwise of getting that point across without going through that, but that's just me.
But yes, both are consenting adults and if Dorian wanted out, he would have already done so. It's not like I don't like the pairing. In fact, I would have been all over it if it wasn't for some of the things that bothered me (they're both my fave characters so there you go). But hey, to each of their own, right?
Good point, but still wasn't so sure. It's hard to portray sarcasm in word in text format sometimes.
Yeup, I understand that. I don't think the dialogue between them is perfect either, thankfully there are some beautiful fanfiction that show the relationship with the same feel that I believe Bioware's writers were going for, but do a much better job at making it sexy and lovely and comfortable for everyone. Unfortunately in game there's some stuff that is said by some characters that gives me the same sort of feeling, *coughViviennecoughSeracough*. Doesn't necessarily make me hate them or decry them as being the worst things ever, but I still wince when I have to listen to those lines.
Everyone is affected by things differently. Like Denise, the only issue I have is when people get this holier than thou attitude, where they imply "This relationship is abuse, and anyone who likes it is supporting abuse, and is probably worse than Satan and punches babies and kicks puppies." or "I had a personal experience and if I stand on my head and squint then I can make what Iron Bull says exactly the same as that and therefore it's evil and if you disagree you are opressing me and victim blaming." That just makes me facepalm at the state of the internet and leave.
Annnnd unfortunately, some of the tumblr posts ranting about the evils of Iron Bull I have seen are actually that bad. Even here on BSN there are people who would demonize Iron Bull, neuter Dorian and then condescend to anyone who doesn't agree with them. They are both lovely characters and don't deserve that. ;w; They deserve to be happy toooo. ~
That's Tumblr in a nutshell, yeah.
Also don't like how they make Dorian a little weak flower. Is Dorian insecure with himself? Yes, and something he needs to work out on. Is he someone who needs coddling and is easily taken advantage of/can't take care of himself? Hell no! He can easily chew and spit you out if he wanted to and he does to a few people in the game. He isn't a pushover nor needing protection. He's a grown man. Let also not forget that he beated up a good share of demons with JUST HIS STAFF and no magic when you first meet him in Redclift.
Either way, I want to see them both happy, either it be with each other or someone else.
That's Tumblr in a nutshell, yeah.
Also don't like how they make Dorian a little weak flower. Is Dorian insecure with himself? Yes, and something he needs to work out on. Is he someone who needs coddling and is easily taken advantage of/can't take care of himself? Hell no! He can easily chew and spit you out if he wanted to and he does to a few people in the game. He isn't a pushover nor needing protection. He's a grown man. Let also not forget that he beated up a good share of demons with JUST HIS STAFF and no magic when you first meet him in Redclift.
Either way, I want to see them both happy, either it be with each other or someone else.
Or as is becoming my new personal favorite, with each other and the Inquisitor in the middle. (I need more fanfiction for this like I need air, lol.)
http://boaillustrati...-i-cant-let-you
http://maltair.tumbl...st/113366692593
I am hypnotized by that gif of Iron Bull laughing, I love it so much. ;w; His fangs are the best thing ever.
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