31 réponses à ce sujet

[Rotward]

So, codex entry "the cardinal rules of magic," claims that mages can't teleport. Yet, every mage enemy worth their salt has some teleportation ability. We saw Velana use teleportation magic in awakening, blood mages using teleportation magic, any number of demons, undead, and darkspawn emissaries teleport. So is the codex just wrong, or is this the mage version of rogue's "back-to-back," or "backstab" teleportation. 

[Mockingword]

Last I heard, official word on that is that it's an "illusion", and the mage is just moving faster than normal. Also, I think Velanna moves through the ground, doesn't she?

 

But the Codex is not infallible and should not be treated as such. It's mostly just a collection of random documents written by characters who bring their own biases into their work, just like any human being in real life. It's not a very reliable source at all. These characters don't know everything about their world or what is possible in it. Thedas is just one continent, for crying out loud.

[Ianamus]

Lore wise teleportation spells are a mixture of an invisibility spell and a haste spell- they've said that they wish the graphics in DA2 could have reflected this better. We saw one in the pax demo that looked more like this.

 

Passage through the fade is also an option, which is how I think the Eluvians work. With the fade tears limited teleportation using the fade may be possible. 

[DragonKingReborn]

Last I heard, official word on that is that it's an "illusion", and the mage is just moving faster than normal. Also, I think Velanna moves through the ground, doesn't she?
 
But the Codex is not infallible and should not be treated as such. It's mostly just a collection of random documents written by characters who bring their own biases into their work, just like any human being in real life. It's not a very reliable source at all. These characters don't know everything about their world or what is possible in it. Thedas is just one continent, for crying out loud.

It's pretty much this, as far as I know. Also, further to Ianamus' post, I think the tears in the Veil provide an opportunity for some retconning of the lore (if such a thing suits them, of course). The veil is torn and the 'rules' of magic are being bent, if not outright broken. Not saying they will, or even should, of course, but it does provide that opportunity in the narrative.

[n7stormrunner]

also note at least one of the rules was broken once... then again that nearly bankrupted the imperium. and gave us the darkspawn... I'd hate/love to see what would happen if the others got broken,

[AlanC9]

Teleporting mages are no more of a problem than teleporting rogues.

[DragonKingReborn]

Teleporting mages are no more of a problem than teleporting rogues.

Indeed. Considerably less of one, if I could offer my humble opinion.

[David Gaider]

So, codex entry "the cardinal rules of magic," claims that mages can't teleport. Yet, every mage enemy worth their salt has some teleportation ability. We saw Velana use teleportation magic in awakening, blood mages using teleportation magic, any number of demons, undead, and darkspawn emissaries teleport. So is the codex just wrong, or is this the mage version of rogue's "back-to-back," or "backstab" teleportation. 

 

The Cardinal Rule is meant to explain that magic cannot allow someone to disappear from one spot and reappear in another without somehow crossing the intermediate space. So no teleporting to the other side of a wall, no enemies appearing out of thin air through magic, no ability to travel long distances instantaneously.

 

In gameplay terms, this affects how teleportation usually comes into play--namely a means to have enemies come and go, or for mages to instantly bypass obstacles. It's not meant to prevent characters from traveling quickly from one side of the battlefield to the other, at least within their sight. There are lots of ways this might happen other than strict "teleportation" (Velanna traveling through the ground is one), but I know the visual effects guys can get carried away sometimes. There's a line to walk between having spell effects look flashy and having them appear lore-breaking--which, to me, the enemy mage "jump" effect ended up being (there was meant to be a flash between where they disappeared and where they reappeared, but that got dropped). They've committed to playing the effects a little closer to the chest this time around insofar as this particular rule goes.

[Realmzmaster]

Was it basically a limitation of the engine that caused both the rogues and mages look like they were teleporting in DA2? If the flash and blur were dropped I can only assume there was a limitation.

[shonawarrior]

Teleporting mages are no more of a problem than teleporting rogues.

-Cantacles of AnaC9, March 2014

[David Gaider]

Was it basically a limitation of the engine that caused both the rogues and mages look like they were teleporting in DA2? If the flash and blur were dropped I can only assume there was a limitation.

 

I forget what the issue was. Lacking time to get the "connection" effect working properly, most likely.

[Realmzmaster]

I forget what the issue was. Lacking time to get the "connection" effect working properly, most likely.

I understand. Lack of time appeared to be a big problem with DA2. I still like the game and the writing. I am sure DAI will not suffer from this problem.

[addiction21]

I forget what the issue was. Lacking time to get the "connection" effect working properly, most likely.

 

I do seem to remember you mentioning you say the animation and were not happy with how some of it turned out but then I understand gameplay does not equal lore or reality.
 

[Dutchess]

The Cardinal Rule is meant to explain that magic cannot allow someone to disappear from one spot and reappear in another without somehow crossing the intermediate space. So no teleporting to the other side of a wall, no enemies appearing out of thin air through magic, no ability to travel long distances instantaneously.

 

Hah. I have lost count of how many enemies appear exactly that way.

[shonawarrior]

enemie

 

The Cardinal Rule is meant to explain that magic cannot allow someone to disappear from one spot and reappear in another without somehow crossing the intermediate space. So no teleporting to the other side of a wall, no enemies appearing out of thin air through magic, no ability to travel long distances instantaneously.

 

In gameplay terms, this affects how teleportation usually comes into play--namely a means to have enemies come and go, or for mages to instantly bypass obstacles. It's not meant to prevent characters from traveling quickly from one side of the battlefield to the other, at least within their sight. There are lots of ways this might happen other than strict "teleportation" (Velanna traveling through the ground is one), but I know the visual effects guys can get carried away sometimes. There's a line to walk between having spell effects look flashy and having them appear lore-breaking--which, to me, the enemy mage "jump" effect ended up being (there was meant to be a flash between where they disappeared and where they reappeared, but that got dropped). They've committed to playing the effects a little closer to the chest this time around insofar as this particular rule goes.

"no enemies appearing out of thin air through magic" i see....gonna miss the good times in Kirkwall, playing ninja with my buddies, or that Sky Cult, from my visit to Chateau Haine...sad. Anyhow love your games, phenomenal work

[Anvos]

I've always suspected that what Gaider posted was likely the case where it was more about true teleportation being nearly instantaneous travel between two points, while rapid movement is possible. 

 

That still leaves the question though of how far the average mage could travel using those techniques.

[Jack Druthers]

Shale explained that Wilhelm used haste spell and invisibility spells, when he couldn't run away from darkspawn, tainted dwarves etc. Shale further explained  that he would only fight if he had to when scavenging in the deep roads.  So I took what I saw on the videos as just that, a defensive abillity.  Could be wrong though.

[Lulupab]

Gaider confirmed that those mages don't teleport, they just move very fast.

[Knight of Dane]

Yay time to dig this one up from the archives: Linkypinky

 

Skip to 5:35, this was explained in the very first game.

[shonawarrior]

Gaider confirmed that those mages don't teleport, they just move very fast.

how fast...like in an instance, kinda like warping space and time.....

[Jack Druthers]

Yay time to dig this one up from the archives: Linkypinky

 

Skip to 5:35, this was explained in the very first game.

This is what confirmed it for me, after talking to Shale, and why I called it a defensive ability.  @Knight of Dane -  I felt your frustration with the mad hermit , unless you have already sussed him out, I would suggest that taking your time and be patient with him, there are more than enough things to trade, though which items they are depends on your character's approach.  So you can trade with him and still kill him afterwards.  I must admit I attacked him too, just to get a response.

[Chiramu]

 There are lots of ways this might happen other than strict "teleportation" (Velanna traveling through the ground is one), but I know the visual effects guys can get carried away sometimes. There's a line to walk between having spell effects look flashy and having them appear lore-breaking--which, to me, the enemy mage "jump" effect ended up being (there was meant to be a flash between where they disappeared and where they reappeared, but that got dropped). They've committed to playing the effects a little closer to the chest this time around insofar as this particular rule goes.

 

If they wanted to put something flashy like this in how come it doesn't go to a committee meeting of developers first? Like in multiple universes created by Blizzard, the spell Blink, is an instantaneous teleport that transports you a little way ahead.

 

I'm sure they could work a teleportation spell into the game and lore without ruining the game if they would only talk to other people perhaps. Is everyone at Bioware afraid to mingle with teams outside of their own?

[n7stormrunner]

If they wanted to put something flashy like this in how come it doesn't go to a committee meeting of developers first? Like in multiple universes created by Blizzard, the spell Blink, is an instantaneous teleport that transports you a little way ahead.

 

I'm sure they could work a teleportation spell into the game and lore without ruining the game if they would only talk to other people perhaps. Is everyone at Bioware afraid to mingle with teams outside of their own?

 

 

since teleportion is basically impossible by lore, no they can't. work arounds like invisibility + haste yes, teleportion no. 

[Jack Druthers]

Often used quote from Cardinal Rules of magic codex :

http://dragonage.wik..._Rules_of_Magic

Essentially:

"No one, for instance, has found any means of travelling-either over great distances or small ones-beyond putting one foot in front of the other. The immutable nature of the physical world prevents this. So no, you may not simply pop over to Minrathous to borrow a cup of sugar, nor may you magic the essay you "forgot" in the apprentice dormitory to your desk. You will simply have to be prepared."

 

So the teleport examples we've seen, could be the above suggestions then, and not just a "beam me up Scottie moment" I was hoping I wasn't reading too much into it. Suppose we'll have to wait and see. Wonder whether we'll ever get the full explanation of how Eluvians work?

[Anvos]

My guess is Eluvians tap into the fade and once your essence is in that world it isn't bound by physical rules and can move at a speed that takes advantage of the time dissasociation of the fade and you can then reemerge from any other functioning Eluvian.