95 réponses à ce sujet

[Astartes Marine]

Because it's apparently the character on Shepard's mind the most at the very climax of the story?

 

 

Or the Catalyst could scan Shepard's mind and pull out an image of someone they felt regret over losing.  Obviously there is some sort of mind scan involved for it to take the form of an utterly irrelevant no-name npc that appears for a grand total of 1 minute in the beginning of the game.  Why not something that will hit Shepard a little more with more relevance?  The Commander shows signs of PTSD throughout the game, using the likeness of someone lost under his command could be the straw to break the camel's back.

 

 

Because Shepard is torn up about the VS three years later instead of everyone and anyone else?
 

 

Yes a military officer can be torn up about people who die under their command for great lengths of time.  As a leader the lives of everyone under Shepard's command are Shepard's responsibility and when they die it's on him or her, it's is the essence of the burden of command.  With the VS, it was Shepard personally who made the call on who lived and who died.  There is the added responsibility for Shepard being directly involved with that loss, making the call to leave a trooper behind.

 

That's a call that no leader in any capacity wants to make and it leaves it's mark on a person.

[Bob from Accounting]

It doesn't matter.

 

The VS is far from the most important character of the story. They shouldn't be making a presence at it's most important part. It gives them too much weight.

 

However 'torn up' Shepard is about the VS, it makes no sense for him or her to start getting guilt trips at this point, three years and possibly a lot more dead squadmates onwards. And that doesn't even considering the roleplaying factor of 'forcing' the player to have Ashley or Kaidan be their greatest mistake or even a concern at all.

[von uber]

Having it appear as your love interest to promote its own agenda of creepy synthesis would be interesting.

Or for those a little hard of understanding what to do, your love interest to promote destroy

[DeinonSlayer]

I still think the starbrat should have been Aveena.

The ever-so-helpful VI that acclimates new arrivals to the Citadel, modelling itself after the first species to discover it in each cycle... always present, always watching, and yet despite offering no opinions on galactic affairs, couldn't help but spout off about "cornucopia technology" as the solution to the galaxy's problems in ME2.

[Bob from Accounting]

That would be so utterly ridiculous on so many levels.

 

No.

[Invisible Man]

I'd actually prefer a flying dragon to that starbrat... almost anything would be an improvement in my opinion.

[Bob from Accounting]

It's interesting that so many people seem to despise the 'starbrat,' gleefully point out how 'wrong' and 'stupid' he is, and yet seem to want to make him all the more credible by replacing him with a friendly face.

[ImaginaryMatter]

 

I still think the starbrat should have been Aveena.

The ever-so-helpful VI that acclimates new arrivals to the Citadel, modelling itself after the first species to discover it in each cycle... always present, always watching, and yet despite offering no opinions on galactic affairs, couldn't help but spout off about "cornucopia technology" as the solution to the galaxy's problems in ME2.

 

That would be so utterly ridiculous on so many levels.

 

No.

 

I know it was missing a snare and a few cymbals but that that was a joke.

 

It's interesting that so many people seem to despise the 'starbrat,' gleefully point out how 'wrong' and 'stupid' he is, and yet seem to want to make him all the more credible by replacing him with a friendly face.

 

Keep up those fallacies David.

[Astartes Marine]

It doesn't matter.

And this is why nobody likes discussing anything with you David, you just handwave anything that goes against your views.

 

 

 

The VS is far from the most important character of the story. They shouldn't be making a presence at it's most important part. It gives them too much weight.

It's not the VS!  Get that through your head.  It's still the Catalyst only using the appearance of the VS, like I said probably to manipulate Shepard's emotions what with the growing PTSD and all.

 

It'd be no worse than using the appearance of a random NPC child whom the audience has no attachment to nor any reason to give a **** about.

 

 

However 'torn up' Shepard is about the VS, it makes no sense for him or her to start getting guilt trips at this point, three years and possibly a lot more dead squadmates onwards.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense than using aforementioned random no-name NPC kid.  If a player lost more squad members during their playthroughs then I'd even be up for the catalyst changing it's appearance up like in the Leviathan DLC, use numerous likenesses of all the people that Shepard's lost.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:  And silly me all this time I thought we were arguing whether the Catalyst should have looked like the one who didn't make it off of Virmire...I totally forgot what the "VS" meant.  XD

[Hadeedak]

I still think the starbrat should have been Aveena.

The ever-so-helpful VI that acclimates new arrivals to the Citadel, modelling itself after the first species to discover it in each cycle... always present, always watching, and yet despite offering no opinions on galactic affairs, couldn't help but spout off about "cornucopia technology" as the solution to the galaxy's problems in ME2.

 

If it was, I would have chosen Destroy every time.

 

I HATE Aveena. I don't know why. I avoid talking to her in ME1, I literally run from her terminals.... I don't know why, but she just sets my teeth on edge.

 

If I was given infinite reality warping powers, yeah, I'd probably have the Catalyst pull a Leviathan and swap between people who died or interacted substantially with Shepard -- maybe flickering to Victus's son, Mordin or Padok, Falere, Legion, the one who DIDN'T make it out of Virmire, Udina, so on and so forth, including the kid and probably love interest for PATHOS.

 

That'd have been insanely cool.

 

But I love Leviathan in general, so the more Leviathanishness in the rest of the game would have made me happy.

[DeinonSlayer]

"It looks like you're trying to stop the reapers! Would you like help?"


EDIT: Oh, hell, have another.

[Hadeedak]

"It looks like you're trying to stop the reapers! Would you like help?"
 

 

 

AUGH. AHHHHHHH. AUGH.

 

I'm melting!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It wouldn't matter who the starbrat was. They were foreshadowing the child with the vent kid, and the dreams. Now we have the ghost boy. The vent boy that Anderson didn't see or hear. The kid who climbed into the shuttle who no one except Shepard saw. Then the dreams about the kid. Then the manifestation of the catalyst as the child as a glowing hologram. 

 

This seems to be Harbinger's avatar the entire time that only Shepard can see. Or it is "symbolism" the entire time, including in the beginning where the vent boy and the child getting on the shuttle represent everyone who dies on Earth, but I don't think Bioware is that subtle. In the dreams what does the kid represent? Everyone who died? Or is it Harbinger taunting Shepard and massaging Shepard's mind to accept the Catalyst so Shepard will accept a reaper solution? Or is this too subtle for Bioware? 

 

I heard elsewhere it was originally supposed to be a Prothean, but would that have made any difference? After Javik had told you about indoctrinated factions advocating controlling the reapers? Oh but you wouldn't know that unless you bought the Day 1 DLC. So now we're back to taking the Starbrat at face value. It wouldn't have mattered who it was. What you chose depended upon what frame of mind you were in at the time. When I first played, the reaper solutions and mine did not coincide with one another. I just wanted them dead. So I blew up the galaxy with 5500 EMS.

[Astrogenesis]

It's a really poor idea.

 

For one thing, it basically makes the VS out to be the most important person of the series to the have them the only character besides Shepard present at the climax. The implication is that Shepard has been going out of his mind over the VS for the entire series. Which is silly.

 

For another, the Catalyst is supposed to be the antagonist. The enemy. Why do people want him to have as friendly a face as possible? The gist of this forum seems to be that people are furious at being 'forced' to agree with him, yet why is this thread full of people requesting a credible face and voice?

 

A simple question: Do you want the Catalyst to be right, or do you want him to be wrong?

If the Catalyst appearing as the VS makes the VS the most important person, then by your standards, that little boy who dies in the invasion is the most important person in the series. Right?

 

And why wouldn't Shepard be going out of his mind over the VS?  

Other than Wrex (because he became a liability) and Mordin (if you're a renegade), the VS is the only squad mate to die by Shepard's hands. You physically have to leave them behind to die in your nuke blast. everybody else is killed off by either the enemy or sacrificing themselves. With the VS you have to choose who save.

If anything, in my view, that makes them one of the most important of squad mates to loose.  

 

Also, I don't want him to have a friendly face. If anything, I'm saying that the Catalyst could have done a better job of picking a form to present himself to Shepard in if he wanted to pull on his heart strings.

[Hadeedak]

Pedantic point: VS stands for Virmire survivor. I'm not sure if there's an adorable abbreviation for the Virmire casualty.

 

I'm ASSUMING we'd be using the Virmire casualty, cause I think that'd be more interesting. The one problem with that is that Ash would need another model, or hairstyle and uniform for that, since it'd kind of mess with me if I ditched her on Virmire with her bun and all, and she showed up in the super-casual ME3 look.

 

But whatever.

[Astrogenesis]

Pedantic point: VS stands for Virmire survivor. I'm not sure if there's an adorable abbreviation for the Virmire casualty.

 

I'm ASSUMING we'd be using the Virmire casualty, cause I think that'd be more interesting. The one problem with that is that Ash would need another model, or hairstyle and uniform for that, since it'd kind of mess with me if I ditched her on Virmire with her bun and all, and she showed up in the super-casual ME3 look.

 

But whatever.

My bad, I had always thought that VS stood for Virmire Sacrifice. Oh well...

[Mcfly616]

The Catalyst appearing as someone Shepard knows, doesn't make that person "the most important person" (who the hell proposed that idea?)

Anyways, I would probably think it would just be because (like Leviathan) the Catalyst would see within Shepards inner most thoughts (what's on his mind and what he's fighting for) and just communicate through the projections of those people. Granted Leviathan did it through people it had communicated to Shepard with.

[Bob from Accounting]

If the Catalyst appearing as the VS makes the VS the most important person, then by your standards, that little boy who dies in the invasion is the most important person in the series. Right?

 

Nope.

 

The boy is separate. He's a civilian and a child. Whatever guilt Shepard is feeling over him is a different matter from Ashley or Kaidan. The relationship is entirely different.

[SporkFu]

Catalyst should have just been a disembodied voice that came from all around Shep, and sounded like a reaper.

[Bob from Accounting]

The Catalyst appearing as someone Shepard knows, doesn't make that person "the most important person" (who the hell proposed that idea?)

 

Yes. It does.

 

The confrontation with the Catalyst is the climax. The most important moment of the entire story. It's the moment of confrontation - where the opposing sides face each other, and more importantly, the ideas they represent.

 

Unless there's an absolutely central role in the conflict a character plays, they shouldn't be there. The child has such a role in being the symbol of the Reapers' destruction and cruelty. Ashley and Kaidan do not.

[Hadeedak]

Catalyst should have just been a disembodied voice that came from all around Shep, and sounded like a reaper.

 

 

I'll probably be mobbed by the pitchfork crew for that, but I think it'd be a bit boring. I think it'd be BETTER if the Catalyst flickered like Leviathan, and a great way to call back to the whole series. Heck, it could start as Jenkins and roll on from there and I probably would have stood up and screamed like a little girl.

 

But at least the kid gives visual interest and a callback to the... start of the game. And gives them an excuse to do the rather awesome synthesized voice it does have.

[Astrogenesis]

Nope.

 

The boy is separate. He's a civilian and a child. Whatever guilt Shepard is feeling over him is a different matter from Ashley or Kaidan. The relationship is entirely different.

I understand the difference between them.

 

But would Shepard really feel guilty about the boy? It wasn't his/her fault. If anything, Shep would be mad at the committee for not preparing for the Reapers in the last 3 years.

 

You could say that they feel guilty for leaving the kid behind, but at the same time, it isn't Shep's fault the Reapers showed up in the first place.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Nope.

 

The boy is separate. He's a civilian and a child. Whatever guilt Shepard is feeling over him is a different matter from Ashley or Kaidan. The relationship is entirely different.

 

Then your logic is faulty. Is the person with Shepard in the climax the most important person or not? You stated that the person in the climax is the most important person. 

[Astrogenesis]

Yes. It does.

 

The confrontation with the Catalyst is the climax. The most important moment of the entire story. It's the moment of confrontation - where the opposing sides face each other, and more importantly, the ideas they represent.

 

Unless there's an absolutely central role in the conflict a character plays, they shouldn't be there. The child has such a role in being the symbol of the Reapers' destruction and cruelty. Ashley and Kaidan do not.

I disagree.

 

Why would the Catalyst want to show himself as being destructive and cruel, when what he believes he's doing is for the betterment of the galaxy.?

[PresidentVorchaMasterBaits]

i had a dream once that i was playing the game and got to the part with the catalyst but instead of it being the kid it was David Lee Roth. i officially marked it down as a nightmare.