95 réponses à ce sujet

[Hadeedak]

i had a dream once that i was playing the game and got to the part with the catalyst but instead of it being the kid it was David Lee Roth. i officially marked it down as a nightmare.

 

 

Oh my god, that's amazing.

[Astartes Marine]

My bad, I had always thought that VS stood for Virmire Sacrifice. Oh well...

Yeah that's kinda where I was too, it was a sacrifice after all.

 

 

Nope.

 

The boy is separate. He's a civilian and a child. Whatever guilt Shepard is feeling over him is a different matter from Ashley or Kaidan. The relationship is entirely different.

The boy is irrelevant.  He is a throwaway.  A nonentity.  Simply one casualty among many. 

 

The Virmire loss was a person known by Shepard, a person who fought side by side with the Commander.  That relationship has actual relevance whereas the face of a random civilian does not.

 

 

 

Unless there's an absolutely central role in the conflict a character plays, they shouldn't be there.

 

So in reality you are saying that the child shouldn't have been the face of the catalyst because from the catalyst's viewpoint it was saving life, not destroying it or being cruel.  Your logic is faulty and has failed you.

 

If anything, using your own logic the catalyst should have taken the face of Saren as Saren was the only one who said the Reapers were right as well as being someone that Shepard has some history with.  A recognizable face as well as a representative of the ideals of the opposing faction.

[Bob from Accounting]

I disagree.

 

Why would the Catalyst want to show himself as being destructive and cruel, when what he believes he's doing is for the betterment of the galaxy.?

 

I don't really know why the Catalyst does it. What I do know is that there's a narrative reason for doing it.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

i had a dream once that i was playing the game and got to the part with the catalyst but instead of it being the kid it was David Lee Roth. i officially marked it down as a nightmare.

 

Diamond Dave would destroy the Reapers with the power of his spandex pants. 80's POWER!

 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I don't really know why the Catalyst does it. What I do know is that there's a narrative reason for doing it.

 

That would be a thematic reason. The catalyst has no narrative reason for doing it. That said, thematic ideas should not infringe narrative consistency and integrity. There were other ways the Catalyst could have manifested itself.

[Reorte]

Yeah that's kinda where I was too, it was a sacrifice after all.

Having no choice whatsoever to save both of them I wouldn't call the V-non-S a sacrifice but another casualty of war. It's only a sacrifice if you knowingly send them to their death, rather than winding up in an unintended position where you can't rescue them.

[PresidentVorchaMasterBaits]

Diamond Dave would destroy the Reapers with the power of his parachute pants.

he may also bore the reapers to death by singing "i'm just a gigalo."

[Bob from Accounting]

The boy is irrelevant.  He is a throwaway.  A nonentity.  Simply one casualty among many. 

 

The Virmire loss was a person known by Shepard, a person who fought side by side with the Commander.  That relationship has actual relevance whereas the face of a random civilian does not.

 

No. Wrong.

 

Stop thinking 'relevance' to mean 'people Shepard cares about.' That is not what it means. What it means is relevance to the story and conflicts. As much as I like Garrus and Liara, they don't embody any particularly unique role or stance in the central conflict. The child, regardless of how much you as a player might hate him, does.

 

The fact that the child was clearly intended to be a symbol of the deaths on Earth is absolutely beyond debate. Now, you may not like that, and may not like that Shepard was 'forced' to care about him, but that's irrelevant.

 

[Bob from Accounting]

That would be a thematic reason. The catalyst has no narrative reason for doing it. That said, thematic ideas should not infringe narrative consistency and integrity. There were other ways the Catalyst could have manifested itself.

 

This is all true. I should have said thematic, not narrative.

[themikefest]

I like David Lee Roth better with Van Halen then that other guy.

 

 

he may also bore the reapers to death by singing "i'm just a gigalo."

Spoiler

[ImaginaryMatter]

The Catalyst appearing as someone Shepard knows, doesn't make that person "the most important person" (who the hell proposed that idea?)

Anyways, I would probably think it would just be because (like Leviathan) the Catalyst would see within Shepards inner most thoughts (what's on his mind and what he's fighting for) and just communicate through the projections of those people. Granted Leviathan did it through people it had communicated to Shepard with.

 

Who else?

 

The universal prevailer of bad ideas amongst this forum. Who apparently now goes by more than one name.

[DeinonSlayer]

Who else?
 
The universal prevailer of bad ideas amongst this forum. Who apparently now goes by more than one name.

"Oh, I have so many names..."

[Hadeedak]

Every now and then, I wonder what happened to Bill Casey.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

he may also bore the reapers to death by singing "i'm just a gigalo."

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGHHHHHT! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[themikefest]

If you play a paragon you face a renegade AI Shepard

 

If you play a renegade you face a paragon AI Shepard.

 

If you play a mixture, you face a mixture AI Shepard.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

"Oh, I have so many names..."

 

Hello! I'm the Doctor. Basically... Run!

 

We must feed. We must feed. We must feed.

 

The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit was one of the best stories of NuWho. Showed great development of the Doctor and Rose's relationship and introduced an enemy who was almost as freaky as the Weeping Angels or the Vashta Nerada.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

If you play a paragon you face a renegade AI Shepard

 

If you play a renegade you face a paragon AI Shepard.

 

If you play a mixture, you face a misture AI Shepard.

 

We'd probably agree on everything in my case. 

[DeinonSlayer]

Hello! I'm the Doctor. Basically... Run!
 
We must feed. We must feed. We must feed.
 
The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit was one of the best stories of NuWho. Showed great development of the Doctor and Rose's relationship and introduced an enemy who was almost as freaky as the Weeping Angels or the Vashta Nerada.

Add "Are you my mummy?" and possibly "Midnight" to that list; I'd say those are some of the best episodes.

[Bob from Accounting]

If you play a paragon you face a renegade AI Shepard

 

If you play a renegade you face a paragon AI Shepard.

 

If you play a mixture, you face a mixture AI Shepard.

 

Hmm. That's not the worst idea I've ever heard. Although I'm not certain how that could be leveraged since all Shepard's agree the Reapers need to die.

[Mcfly616]

Yes. It does.
 
The confrontation with the Catalyst is the climax. The most important moment of the entire story. It's the moment of confrontation - where the opposing sides face each other, and more importantly, the ideas they represent.
 
Unless there's an absolutely central role in the conflict a character plays, they shouldn't be there. The child has such a role in being the symbol of the Reapers' destruction and cruelty. Ashley and Kaidan do not.

No. It doesn't.

I never proposed it should appear as the VS. I said it should appear as all of the characters close to Shepard. Hear those voices in the dreams? They're squadmates. Obviously they weigh heavily on Shepards mind. Which makes him relatable to the player. We've experienced everything with them. They're a part of this conflict. Shepard is fighting for every species, and his squad has come from all corners of the galaxy. They are a representation of everything that's being fought for. I don't give a damn about some stupid kid that got hamfisted into the last game.

It's the climax. And it's Shepard making the choices. If we're going to be talking to an image of what we're fighting for, it shouldve never been some little brat child who appears out of nowhere. It should've been those that were closest to Shepard. We've already seen Leviathan project itself as people Shepard has encountered. It would make sense that its creation would be able to communicate similarly.

[DeinonSlayer]

If you play a paragon you face a renegade AI Shepard
 
If you play a renegade you face a paragon AI Shepard.
 
If you play a mixture, you face a mixture AI Shepard.

I wonder how feasible it would have been to write the Citadel DLC so the clone you face off against is a goody-two-shoes if you played a hardcore burn-down-the-orphanage Renegade up to that point.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Hmm. That's not the worst idea I've ever heard. Although I'm not certain how that could be leveraged since all Shepard's agree the Reapers need to die.

 

Really? So the people who choose synthesis or control don't exist?

[Bob from Accounting]

Ah, well, if it's all the characters Shepard is close to, that would be a totally different story. Because there's no implication that this one squadmate has a certain vital role or vital perspective.

 

Nevertheless, that sounds very difficult to do well.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I wonder how feasible it would have been to write the Citadel DLC so the clone you face off against is a goody-two-shoes if you played a hardcore burn-down-the-orphanage Renegade up to that point.

 

He'd be like David. Too idealistic, and too in-your-face about it.

[DeinonSlayer]

He'd be like David. Too idealistic, and too in-your-face about it.

That's kinda what I meant.