Again what did Ash (or Kaidan) do that was idiotic? What foreseeable action could have been avoided?
Standing a good ten feet away or more. Doing nothing but looking at the beacon. They weren't screwing with the beacon. At all.
Or is looking too hard at it an actionable offense?
Looking hard at it isn't an offense. Walking towards it is.
You never stipulated that in your point. That said, how exactly does your point translate to the beacon? I'm having some trouble seeing it.
And my point holds true. The guy's not random if the sniper is targeting him. If the sniper is looking for targets on a battlefield, I'd still say the guy was an idiot for not assuming that a sniper was present (which is a must on the battlefield). If the sniper randomly shoots his gun into the air and the drifting bullet comes down and hits a random guy, that's different. That is random chance. And that's not what's happening here. You're going to have to explain the correlation of your metaphor to the beacon.
And then you ****** about David/Bob.
And then you ****** about David/Bob.
Why are you attacking me now? What have I said or done to warrant a personal attack. I haven't gone around calling non-fictional people idiots, or claiming that things are ridiculous, or dismissing their points as nonsense. Why am I being unjustly compared to the guy who's doing this?
Argue against my point, not at me please. I really don't feel that I've done anything that warrants that behavior.
Looking hard at it isn't an offense. Walking towards it is.
She wasn't walking towards it, she was dragged.
It's already lighting up at that point
How was she supposed to know that the big, alien telephone pole is proximity-activated, capable of hauling a grown human off the ground from ten meters away, and would self-destruct after doing so? You act like she shot at it experimentally. She wasn't ordered to stay away and in no way tampered with the device. If she hadn't set it off, the first scientist or forklift operator who got close enough would have.Looking hard at it isn't an offense. Walking towards it is.
The reason you are being compared to David is because everyone on this board has already explained to you multiple times how and why this situation is completely out of Kaiden/Ashley's control. Yet you want to go around and around in circles about how accidents are unacceptable and thus it is clearly incompetence..Why are you attacking me now? What have I said or done to warrant a personal attack. I haven't gone around calling non-fictional people idiots, or claiming that things are ridiculous, or dismissing their points as nonsense. Why am I being unjustly compared to the guy who's doing this?
Argue against my point, not at me please. I really don't feel that I've done anything that warrants that behavior.
The reason you are being compared to David is because everyone on this board has already explained to you multiple times how and why this situation is completely out of Kaiden/Ashley's control. Yet you want to go around and around in circles about how accidents are unacceptable and thus it is clearly incompetence..
Hey, let's not go too far.
Nobody has yet accused him of claiming Ash/Kaidan weren't heroic enough 
I was merely trying to explain the situation as I saw it. I honestly have no problem with David or massive so i don't truly find it to be an insult anyways, tho massive obviously dislikes the comparison.Hey, let's not go too far.
Nobody has yet accused him of claiming Ash/Kaidan weren't heroic enough
Or Massive and David are two sides of the same person; they do always post after each other...
I was merely trying to explain the situation as I saw it. I honestly have no problem with David or massive so i don't truly find it to be an insult anyways, tho massive obviously dislikes the comparison.
I know, and I have no problem with massive either, irrational hatred of Ash aside. Just having a little fun at his expense 
Space forklift.
Or an actual forklift. There's one on Omega. Not a space forklift. Not an advanced, crazy mass effect field using forklift. Just a regular everyday 21st century forklift. Go figure.
About the VS and the Eden Prime beacon: It's not clear-cut one way or another. What's the minimum safe distance before the beacon activates? Anyone know? When the VS walks towards it, are they being compelled? Or are they merely going "ooh shiny!"? That one's up to interpretation. Unless Word of God clarified it at some point.
If they were reasonably expected to know the minimum safe distance and they were closer, they're idiots. If they didn't it's dumb luck. If they were compelled (mind controlled) to walk forward, it's out of their hands. If not they're idiots.
Bottom line: Are the deciding factors (safe distance, compelled or no) known, or clarified? If no, it's all, you guessed it, speculations!
There's a forklift on the CItadel too in the markets near the skycar lot.
It's already lighting up at that point
That would be a 'get the hell away' moment for me.
Given the scenario, it sounds like the Alliance felt Kaidan's actions were justified as the only action they apparently took was dispanding that questionable operation. As far as I can recall there is no other such instance of Kaidan shirking the rules and given his rank and position he seems like an exemplary officer. And that his actions with the Turian are entirely sympathetic given that he was young, placed in a half-hazard and stressful training situation against his will, and faced with a first time alien encounter threatening a pier.
Was "Brain Camp" even technically a military operation, or just a military-sponsored program?
Even if it were considered a military operation with standard chain of command, I think it was pretty clear that Kaidan did not mean to kill Vyrnnus, and he may well have feared for his own life when Vyrnnus pulled a knife on him. I'm no expert on military discipline, but I doubt that a CO is allowed to threaten a subordinate with a deadly weapon who is not posing any real threat to the CO or anyone else. My recollection of the story is that Vyrnnus (intentionally or not) broke Rahna's arm when she didn't use her biotics, Kaidan stood up to object, and then Vyrnnus started screaming at him and beating the crap out of him. It's unclear if Kaidan had even *touched* Vyrnnus before that.
That said, if I were an Alliance recruiter at the time that Kaidan was still just a teenager, I probably would see him as too big of a risk in light of that incident and would not allow him to enlist or go to a training academy. But considering that he *did* make it through the initial filter, he seems to have become a perfectly competent and level-headed officer.
That would be a 'get the hell away' moment for me.
Or the "get the he-too late!" moment
How was she supposed to know that the big, alien telephone pole is proximity-activated, capable of hauling a grown human off the ground from ten meters away, and would self-destruct after doing so? You act like she shot at it experimentally. She wasn't ordered to stay away and in no way tampered with the device. If she hadn't set it off, the first scientist or forklift operator who got close enough would have.
1) It's already glowing, and she makes mention of it. That would be a warning sign by my definitions.
2) If it's glowing, why move towards it? Why is she not alarmed at the fact that the Beacon is glowing? Curiosity very much kills the cat, even if it doesn't.
The point is not whether or not she activated the beacon, or didn't know what it did, or what she was doing. The point is that she (or Kaidan) was being reckless. She wasn't exercising situational awareness. She wasn't being cautious and wary. That is a problem.
To be fair though, her endangering the mission is you can playing as MShep. Kaidan does it in FemShep play through a so I would discount that from both records. It was supposed to be the jumping off point of a possible relationship (the PC saving their lives) and to be honest I would have had that been where Jenkins died. At least then your crew member doesn't come off as highly incompetent.
I thought perhaps the one who approaches the beacon (whether Ashley or Kaidan) is already falling under its "influence" before getting close enough to be levitated off the ground. Not sure anybody really did anything "wrong" there - *someone* is going to have to at least step vaguely near it at some point and would have presumably had the same thing happen.
That's still pretty thin, IMO. Did Shepard not notice the glowing that they were commenting on? If (s)he did, and viewed it as a sign of danger, I'd say Shepard should have ordered them to stay back.1) It's already glowing, and she makes mention of it. That would be a warning sign by my definitions.
2) If it's glowing, why move towards it? Why is she not alarmed at the fact that the Beacon is glowing? Curiosity very much kills the cat, even if it doesn't.
The point is not whether or not she activated the beacon, or didn't know what it did, or what she was doing. The point is that she (or Kaidan) was being reckless. She wasn't exercising situational awareness. She wasn't being cautious and wary. That is a problem.
The reason you are being compared to David is because everyone on this board has already explained to you multiple times how and why this situation is completely out of Kaiden/Ashley's control. Yet you want to go around and around in circles about how accidents are unacceptable and thus it is clearly incompetence..
I also believe you are completely misinterpreted the sniper comparison. From what I can tell They were asking if and innocent civilian was killed by a sniper in a place they would not expect to be snipers, would you say it was incompetent of them to be at that location with out any real way of knowing otherwise. Which would work in this situation seeing as at no time is there any indication that the beacon has any sort of proximity detection or that it is dangerous in any real way. I mean Wasn't the beacon just recently dug up before that?
How about this in a military setting, if your squad was sent on a mission to retrieve an unknown artifact and upon arriving and setting up a perimeter around said artifact, it began to do exactly what the beacon on Eden prime did dragging you and your crew near. Who exactly would be at fault?
No one has explained to me how the situation is objectively completely out of their control. They're explaining what they see, and I'm expressing skepticism and explaining what I see is different and why. This point on yours specifically is what I'd argue as misinformed and malevolent belligerence towards me. You've improperly biased your statement against me personally.
The analogy doesn't work, because the victim (Kaidan or Ashley) knows that the sniper (the beacon) is there, and is being reckless by walking towards it (after Ashley says that it's doing something that it wasn't doing earlier). It's doing something that it wasn't doing before Saren came. I'm going to expect caution and discretion from my Soldiers. I'm going to expect them to not go towards the beacon without authorization. I shouldn't be telling them not to check it out? It should already be a given that, unless I authorize otherwise, don't go near the sensitive artifact that this entire mission is about. Especially when it's not behaving in the way that it normally did.
First, I would assess any casualties or injuries. Second, I would collect a report from all my squad leaders about what each Soldier did in this case, what they saw, what they were doing. I would be making a report, stipulating exactly what, to the best of reconstruction possible, what exactly happened; If the artifact activated on its own, it would be blameless. If it was clearly due to recklessness or unauthorized actions, I would punish the Soldier(s) responsible. The severity of said punishment would depend on the consequences of the activation, and the actions and behavior of the Soldier(s) that led to the artifacts activation.
First, I would assess any casualties or injuries. Second, I would collect a report from all my squad leaders about what each Soldier did in this case, what they saw, what they were doing. I would be making a report, stipulating exactly what, to the best of reconstruction possible, what exactly happened; If the artifact activated on its own, it would be blameless. If it was clearly due to recklessness or unauthorized actions, I would punish the Soldier(s) responsible. The severity of said punishment would depend on the consequences of the activation, and the actions and behavior of the Soldier(s) that led to the artifacts activation.
And as has been pointed out before, it did activate on its own. There was no reason to believe that simply looking at it from well out of arm's reach would cause anything further to happen.
If Nihlus briefed them by saying "Now if the beacon lights up, stand at least twenty five feet back, bad stuff has been known to happen around them" you might have a point.
That's still pretty thin, IMO. Did Shepard not notice the glowing that they were commenting on? If (s)he did, and viewed it as a sign of danger, I'd say Shepard should have ordered them to stay back.
Shepard walks up to plenty of I-don't-know-what-the-hell-it-does artifacts (Elutania, Firewalker, etc.) with unpredictable results. I for one wouldn't keep the damned thing on my coffee table.
When Shepard was making a call to the Normandy about securing the beacon and making his report on the situation, Ashley is commenting on the Beacon not behaving or acting the way it was when it was initially recovered. Shepard was occupied with his report here. Granted, he could have issued a stay/hold order, but it also should have been to the knowledge of both that they don't approach important mission objective point items without authorization: for example, you shouldn't have to give an order for Soldiers not to approach a suspected IED emplacement, or a possible Signal asset captured from enemy forces (a Radio, a Walky-Talky, an encryption device, etc.) You secure their positions and hold security while the experts arrive. Those are standard operations procedures of modern militaries for a reason, and if they don't apply in the ME-universe, it speaks about their incompetence and disconnection from actual, logical military procedure.
I'm not saying I exactly agree with all those examples: Shepard certainly was being reckless with those. That said, it's also a separate thread for the argument. I don't agree with it any more than I agree with how Kaidan/Ashley acted.
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