361 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

The Normandy exists in a jurisdictional quantum state, you're saying.

[Bob from Accounting]

Why does anyone care about this?

 

Just imagine the XO is whoever you want.

[geth47]

Maybe Adams? After all, no matter the situation, he´s always on board.

 

Shepclone was better in this regard. It was quite obvious in his/her case that it was Brooks.

[Han Shot First]

It isn't any of the alien squadmates. The Normandy is an Alliance military vessel, and the aliens are all either members of foreign military organizations or civilians. The XO would be an Alliance officer.

 

It is most likely either Ashley or Kaidan when they are aboard, as they are the senior officers out of all the named Alliance characters on the ship. While the VS is hospitalized, dead, or sent to Hackett, it would have to be one of the other Alliance officers. My guess would be Adams.

[CrutchCricket]

Yes? Just because some terrorist organisation copies the design doesn't change the fact that the ship they copied (The Normandy) is an Alliance ship.

 

lolno

If I copy an object of yours and build my own, the thing I built is not yours.

Seriously, re-examine your concepts of property. 
 

And seized by the Alliance during Shepard's not-trial (we don't let terrorists keep their stuff and I don't think this will change in the future)

 

Which amounts to precisely dick given the first and third points you responded to.
 

Because Shepard, unlike the average BSN dweller, realises that you can't beat an armada of uberdreadnoughts (ships impervious to dreadnought fire capable of taking out our dreadnoughts with a single shot) with just one guy - that is, Shepard realises that he can't win without the support of the Alliance/Council and going on the run won't help Shepard get this support.
 
I mean, feel free to elaborate on how exactly Shepard is going to stop the Reapers if without the support of the Alliance/Council (who in ME2 decide to tolerate his actions as long as he sticks to blowing up the terminus systems) - yeah, Shepard could probably go hide in a cave somewhere but that's not gonna help matters is it?

How about you check what Shepard has at the end of ME2, both in terms of tangible resources and allies and potential resources and allies? Then check whether any mention of Council reprisal is brought up at any point in ME2 or 3. Unless you're being deliberately obtuse, the answer should be obvious.

 

To the OP: I do think the Normandy is beyond having a traditional command structure at this point. It is the spearhead, the figurative heart of the Resistance as much as Shepard is. If I had to pick a second, out of the available people it'd have to be Garrus. But really, if anything happens to Shepard, in all likelyhood the XO's (and everyone else's) remaining duty is kissing their asses goodbye.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

It isn't any of the alien squadmates. The Normandy is an Alliance military vessel, and the aliens are all either members of foreign military organizations or civilians. The XO would be an Alliance officer.

 

It is most likely either Ashley or Kaidan when they are aboard, as they are the senior officers out of all the named Alliance characters on the ship. While the VS is hospitalized, dead, or sent to Hackett, it would have to be one of the other Alliance officers. My guess would be Adams.

 

I wouldn't want anyone in the alliance taking any positions on the Normandy as long as I'm in charge. I headcanon that the crew is temporary until their eventual slaughter.

[Catastrophy]

I always figured it was Vega, having special instructions to do away with Shepard should (s)he go nuts again. Why else would they set the watch dog on Shepard's tail?

[CrutchCricket]

I always figured it was Vega, having special instructions to do away with Shepard should (s)he go nuts again. Why else would they set the watch dog on Shepard's tail?

 

I doubt Vega could take him but that's an interesting idea.

 

Maybe Vega and the VS have an Order 66? Muscle + someone with an emotional connection that might make him hesitate (and who's also seen Shepard in action first-hand).

[KaiserShep]

I always figured it was Vega, having special instructions to do away with Shepard should (s)he go nuts again. Why else would they set the watch dog on Shepard's tail?

 

I'd bet the Normandy's port nacelle that if given the order, James would not go through with it.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Vega isn't smart enough to be XO. They made Kaidan a major and a spectre so you'd be certain to kill him if you missed on Virmire. Ashley is a Lt Cmdr. and a spectre and knew more about the Protheans than Liara (thank you idiotic writers - my guess is Vega did, too). The doctor is not command material. Joker definitely doesn't come close to command material. Adams doesn't either. The only one on that ship who comes close to command material is Garrus. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I doubt Vega could take him but that's an interesting idea.

 

Maybe Vega and the VS have an Order 66? Muscle + someone with an emotional connection that might make him hesitate (and who's also seen Shepard in action first-hand).

 

That's basically what I have in my fanfiction going on (at least for Ashley). Due to how she's so confused over Shepard, and her dogmatic belief in the alliance to a fault, Cerberus is able to engineer a takeover of the Normandy by the alliance against Shepard. Granted, I have Shepard (to an extent, something like me) being his own worst enemy, with him having somewhat alienated the alliance (and hugely so for Ashley) with his views and attitude about them and Cerberus. Cerberus uses this to their advantage to have Shepard removed, and Ashley takes over (she's like the angry hyper-religious parent or friend who found out her son/friend was gay and is absolutely infuriated that he would dare hold a worldview not in line with theirs, while also in complete denial about their feelings and wanting to cure their 'sinfulness' with prayer and atonement, in this case, Ashley thinking Shepard needs to spend time in an alliance rehabilitation center thinking he needs to regain his love of the alliance). 

 

Yes, I just compared Ashley to that type of person, and yes, that is exactly the type of person I believe Ashley to be. Which is why I find her so reprehensibly despicable.

 

But I digress; anyway, Ashley takes Normandy, and Shepard has to steal it back by boarding it from his cabin. Basically, it's kind of like Order 66, except it ends badly for Ashley and the alliance.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Vega isn't smart enough to be XO. They made Kaidan a major and a spectre so you'd be certain to kill him if you missed on Virmire. Ashley is a Lt Cmdr. and a spectre and knew more about the Protheans than Liara (thank you idiotic writers - my guess is Vega did, too). The doctor is not command material. Joker definitely doesn't come close to command material. Adams doesn't either. The only one on that ship who comes close to command material is Garrus. 

 

I wouldn't undercut Vega. He's young and anxious, but he's definitely got more of a brain than most people give him credit for. He can be a bit of a dunce, but he wouldn't be where he is without a good amount of intelligence. 

 

I personally wouldn't want anyone on the ME3 Normandy besides Shepard being in command. Only Miranda, and possibly Jacob, would I want in a Leadership position of the ship. 

[CrutchCricket]

Yes, I just compared Ashley to that type of person, and yes, that is exactly the type of person I believe Ashley to be. Which is why I find her so reprehensibly despicable.

 

But I digress; anyway, Ashley takes Normandy, and Shepard has to steal it back by boarding it from his cabin. Basically, it's kind of like Order 66, except it ends badly for Ashley and the alliance.

 

Which I think is a huge exaggeration, brought on by your personal dislike of her. It's possible to be utterly loyal to something without being a lunatic zealot. But hey if it works for you.

 

I'm a bit confused though. When is all this happening for you? Post-ending? In which case why is Shepard still active and why is there still a Cerberus to speak of?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Which I think is a huge exaggeration, brought on by your personal dislike of her. It's possible to be utterly loyal to something without being a lunatic zealot. But hey if it works for you.

 

I'm a bit confused though. When is all this happening for you? Post-ending? In which case why is Shepard still active and why is there still a Cerberus to speak of?

 

Pre-ending, and it's part of the Cerberus coup. I have a new Reaper variant being involved. It's basically like a technological xenomorph that can turn invisible. It was deployed to either kill Shepard or abduct him for harvesting/indoctrination. Sans Joker, Traynor, the Engineers, Cortez, and Dr. Michel, it slaughters the entire alliance crew. The Cerberus crew from ME2 is gathered to replace them. Shepard retakes the ship with the help of his team (various ME2 and ME3 allies sans Ashley of course) via a 3 way fight with the alliance crew and the Reaper xenomorph. Go onto the post-war character page in this forum (the thread about what happens to allies post-war). Mine's on the first page. You can see what I do to Ashley.

 

I believe it's about as much an exaggeration as your hatred of Vasir. Yes, I believe Ashley is indeed a lunatic zealot when it comes to her ideal of the alliance. 

[Han Shot First]

Vega isn't smart enough to be XO. They made Kaidan a major and a spectre so you'd be certain to kill him if you missed on Virmire. Ashley is a Lt Cmdr. and a spectre and knew more about the Protheans than Liara (thank you idiotic writers - my guess is Vega did, too). The doctor is not command material. Joker definitely doesn't come close to command material. Adams doesn't either. The only one on that ship who comes close to command material is Garrus. 

 

Garrus isn't Alliance. 

 

People can headcanon whatever they like of course, but if the Alliance functioned anything like a real world military only a commissioned officer in the Alliance could serve as the ship's executive officer. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Shepard is a Spectre. Shepard can put whomever she wants in charge. Kaidan and Ashley are dead. Bioware never designated an executive officer. 

 

Jacob and Miranda are not on the Normandy. Deal with it. I wanted Zaeed instead of Vega. I have to deal with it.

[Invisible Man]

I guess I feel shepard as a spectre could make anyone s/he wanted the XO, regardless of affiliation. though, if shep makes the space hamster XO I'd really have to propose that shep is crazy.

[CrutchCricket]

Pre-ending, and it's part of the Cerberus coup. I have a new Reaper variant being involved. It's basically like a technological xenomorph that can turn invisible. It was deployed to either kill Shepard or abduct him for harvesting/indoctrination. Sans Joker, Traynor, the Engineers, Cortez, and Dr. Michel, it slaughters the entire alliance crew. The Cerberus crew from ME2 is gathered to replace them. Shepard retakes the ship with the help of his team (various ME2 and ME3 allies sans Ashley of course) via a 3 way fight with the alliance crew and the Reaper xenomorph. Go onto the post-war character page in this forum (the thread about what happens to allies post-war). Mine's on the first page. You can see what I do to Ashley.

 

I believe it's about as much an exaggeration as your hatred of Vasir. Yes, I believe Ashley is indeed a lunatic zealot when it comes to her ideal of the alliance. 

 

Oh you're rewriting the game then.

 

If that's the case, why start there?  On my rewrite I'd scrap the whole nonsensical surrender and go with the true "Hand of Shepard" independent I keep hinting at.

 

I really have to write all that down one of these days...

 

I hate Vasir but I don't exaggerate her traits. She's scum, but only as much as the game shows (which is enough to make me want to empty my armory on her).

 

I guess I feel shepard as a spectre could make anyone s/he wanted the XO, regardless of affiliation. though, if shep makes the space hamster XO I'd really have to propose that shep is crazy.

 

Hey! Show some damn respect! That space hamster's been through the Omega 4 relay while you were still making quote pyramids on the old BSN! He'd make a damned fine XO!

[FlyingSquirrel]

I think a more interesting question is who would take over command if Shepard were killed in the middle of ME3 and the Normandy was still needed for the same or similar missions. Experience as the XO wouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor - the Alliance and the Council (if they are involved) would probably be looking more for someone with experience in difficult missions and exceptional leadership skills.

 

Of the extant crew, the VS would be the likely choice post-coup, in that it's someone who knows the ship and probably gets along fairly well with the rest of the crew, plus they have Spectre authority and access. Otherwise I think Garrus might be the most likely choice - they wouldn't have to worry about divided loyalties with him since the turians sign up for a multilateral coalition pretty early on, he has military and law-enforcement experience, he knows many of the crew, and he understands galactic politics well enough to be fast-tracked for Spectre status (especially since he was already once considered for it). The Shadow Broker files suggest that he has leadership skills that just tend to get overshadowed by Shepard's presence. A few human crew members might object to a turian commander, I suppose, but I think they'd come to respect him and/or just bite their tongues.

 

Vega is a possibility, but the fact that he's just now getting identified as a possible N7 suggests that the Alliance think he's on his way up but not at Shepard's level yet. If the VS and Garrus are both out of the picture, I wouldn't be surprised if an Alliance N7 or Council Spectre were brought in from outside the crew. I can't see the Alliance or the Council handing the keys to Javik (not enough loyalty to this cycle or its inhabitants), Joker (great pilot but not a natural leader), EDI (still figuring out who she is and likely viewed with suspicion), or Tali (relatively young, already has a lot of responsibilities to the quarians). Adams and Chakwas may be good at what they do but they aren't experts in diplomacy or combat.

[Han Shot First]

Shepard is a Spectre. Shepard can put whomever she wants in charge. Kaidan and Ashley are dead. Bioware never designated an executive officer. 

 

Jacob and Miranda are not on the Normandy. Deal with it. I wanted Zaeed instead of Vega. I have to deal with it.

 

Spectre authority doesn't work that way.

 

Shepard was able to command the Normandy SR1 and the ME3 Normandy SR2 not because of his or her Spectre status, but because of the authority granted to Shepard by the Alliance by his or her officer's commission and being placed in a command billet by Alliance high command. 

 

Shepard was the only Spectre to command a military warship in the series. Had Shepard not been a military officer, he would have been a passenger on the ship like Nihlus in ME1, with Anderson (or some other Alliance officer) as the ship's CO. 

[CrutchCricket]

Spectre authority doesn't work that way.

 

Shepard was able to command the Normandy SR1 and the ME3 Normandy SR2 not because of his or her Spectre status, but because of the authority granted to Shepard by the Alliance by his officer's commission and and being placed in a command billet by Alliance high command. 

 

Shepard was the only Spectre to command a military warship in the series. Had Shepard not been a military officer, he would have been a passenger on the ship like Nihlus in ME1, with Anderson (or some other Alliance officer) as the ship's CO. 

 

While it's true that Shepard was given the Normandy in ME1, it's also possible that Spectre authority can grant a measure of "commandeering rights".

 

Spectres are above the law and anyone that falls within Council law has to work with them if called upon. That would include military officers. So while the ship would have an official Alliance CO, a Spectre could conceivably order him to take the ship to x location and the CO would have to comply.

 

Likely it's one of the many grey areas of Spectre jurisdiction and one not often used because diplomatic incidents would obviously arise.

 

In ME3 it's in the Alliance's best interests to cooperate so even if Shepard wasn't reinstated in the Alliance, if he requested command of the Normandy as a Spectre, he'd probably get it.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Garrus would easily be the most competent XO and commanding officer if Shepard went down, of any squadmate in any of the three games. Experience leading a team, former military experience, some Spectre training likely, and has a benevolent but flexible-to-the-situation moral code. 

 

This is the Normandy, not a infantry battalion. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Spectre authority doesn't work that way.

 

Shepard was able to command the Normandy SR1 and the ME3 Normandy SR2 not because of his or her Spectre status, but because of the authority granted to Shepard by the Alliance by his or her officer's commission and being placed in a command billet by Alliance high command. 

 

Shepard was the only Spectre to command a military warship in the series. Had Shepard not been a military officer, he would have been a passenger on the ship like Nihlus in ME1, with Anderson (or some other Alliance officer) as the ship's CO. 

But Kaidan outranked Shepard. Kaidan was the equivalent of a Navy Captain and later was that AND a Spectre. Shepard was under obligation to stand down when ordered by Alenko since Alenko outranked him/her and was also a Spectre. This assured Alenko's death since he was a superior officer. Shepard should have been addressing Alenko as "sir."

 

The whole thing was f***ed up if you ask me. I don't even know why they put the VS in the story. I'm guessing because you needed a third for the first part of the Mars mission until you met Liara, and they couldn't think of anyone else. Ashley should have been no higher than Operations Chief, and Alenko a Lt Cmdr. or did they say ... uh oh, marines don't have Lt. Cmdrs so we'll have to jump him to major. Why not Captain? It'll confuse people, because captain in the marines is equivalent to lieutenant in the navy, and players won't know this. But major in Canadian navy is equivalent to Lt. Cmdr. Why did we make it equivalent to Captain? No one likes Alenko. They'll kill him. 

[Invisible Man]

I figured they made kaiden a major because it's harder for some people to figure out he outranks shepard. though it didn't work on me. and you'd think after the battle for the citadel they'd have promoted shepard. but, no.

[eyezonlyii]

But Kaidan outranked Shepard. Kaidan was the equivalent of a Navy Captain and later was that AND a Spectre. Shepard was under obligation to stand down when ordered by Alenko since Alenko outranked him/her and was also a Spectre. This assured Alenko's death since he was a superior officer. Shepard should have been addressing Alenko as "sir."

 

The whole thing was f***ed up if you ask me. I don't even know why they put the VS in the story. I'm guessing because you needed a third for the first part of the Mars mission until you met Liara, and they couldn't think of anyone else. Ashley should have been no higher than Operations Chief, and Alenko a Lt Cmdr. or did they say ... uh oh, marines don't have Lt. Cmdrs so we'll have to jump him to major. Why not Captain? It'll confuse people, because captain in the marines is equivalent to lieutenant in the navy, and players won't know this. But major in Canadian navy is equivalent to Lt. Cmdr. Why did we make it equivalent to Captain? No one likes Alenko. They'll kill him. 

 

But...but...Shepard has Spectre senoirity! That has to count for something!

 

Edit: Oh and I've never played a save with Ashley in ME3. I know Kaidan gets offered the Biotic Division, but what is Ashley's equivalent reason for potentially not serving aboard the Normandy?