100552 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

I don't think writers like explaining their characters in such a way...effectively 'giving the right answer' on how to interpret a character.

Especially since the game is only a few weeks old and this character arc isn't finished b/c DLC.

[raging_monkey]

Well after reading the last few pages I guess that there are a lot of people that don't know my history so I probably should step up now. I've been hesitate to because of the way I've been treated here, there is always the fear of being treated different or being rejected. It's not a secret though as I've mentioned it in a post before, I've been legally female for almost seven years.I was born in a male body but my brain always told me I was female, which made for a rather horrible childhood. I always knew that I had to keep it a secret but I never knew why, not until I told my parents when I transitioned. My parents screwed with my head when I was a child told me I was male and to get those thoughts out of my head but I couldn't remember it until I saw their reactions, they made me feel less than human. They either didn't want a child that was different or they didn't want to see me get hurt. I've lost family and old friends over this, so it has always made me hesitant to say anything because I'm always scared of being hurt again.I never intentionally meant to mislead anyone but I've blended into society so well for so long that I just wanted to be myself. Blending in has it's own problems but it's so much easier than standing out. So many people like me have been made fun of, hated and much worse. When you blend in and no one knows who you were you find yourself trapped, you have to hide your entire history which was more difficult than I ever imagined it would. I just got tired of hiding and that's why I made this post.http://forum.bioware...ons/?p=17365090I just wanted to get that out of the way as sometimes in this thread I feel that I'm still hiding.Now getting back to Sera I struggle to understand her sometimes and didn't catch the line mentioned until later when people started talking about it. The line doesn't hurt me but there have been many posts on the boards that have. With the Talk about Krem there were posts that hurt me more than I thought possible. I've seen posts that were ignorant to Krem and trans people in general. Things aren't all bad though seeing the Krem appreciation thread has for the most part been a breath of fresh air for me.I hope you understand and can accept me as I've enjoyed my time here more than you can imagine.

your family simple as that we got your back

[SardaukarElite]

Explaining a character does sort of defeat the purpose of writing them.

 

I would like that too. He has been unusually inactive since the game came out.

 

You remember that bottle of tequila with the skittles? Yeah, inactive all right.

 

Or a much needed break. Or this place isn't so fun now that prediction has turned into reaction.

[raging_monkey]

Explaining a character does sort of defeat the purpose of writing them.
 

 
You remember that bottle of tequila with the skittles? Yeah, inactive all right.
 
Or a much needed break. Or this place isn't so fun now that prediction has turned into reaction.

remember the times we made dirty jokes and had fun without eveeything being a agenda and we all got along?

[Fiery Phoenix]

I don't think writers like explaining their characters in such a way...effectively 'giving the right answer' on how to interpret a character.

Especially since the game is only a few weeks old and this character arc isn't finished b/c DLC.

I would love if her character arc was expanded upon through DLC.

 

I doubt it will happen.

 

Explaining a character does sort of defeat the purpose of writing them.

 

 

You remember that bottle of tequila with the skittles? Yeah, inactive all right.

 

Or a much needed break. Or this place isn't so fun now that prediction has turned into reaction.

It's possible he's just avoiding commenting on such matters, which really makes sense if you think about it.

[Basement Cat]

remember the times we made dirty jokes and had fun without eveeything being a agenda and we all got along?

That was before the game came out. Now we know the characters so we can have a definite idea about them. 

 

And hugs to Danielle. 

[YourFunnyUncle]

I understand the argument that once a work of art/fiction is out in the world, it's up to the public to interpret it as they wish, but equally it's interesting to hear the point of view of its creator. I'd say that it's up to Lukas if he wants to comment or not.

[YourFunnyUncle]

That was before the game came out. Now we know the characters so we can have a definite idea about them. 

(And we now have enough info to extrapolate wildly based on our own prejudices*...   )

 

*I include myself in the above comment

[Fiery Phoenix]

I understand the argument that once a work of art/fiction is out in the world, it's up to the public to interpret it as they wish, but equally it's interesting to hear the point of view of its creator. I'd say that it's up to Lukas if he wants to comment or not.

He was asked about the Iron Bull comment a few days after launch and I think his response was basically just that.

 

I understand not wanting to participate in these discussions. It's too easy for folks to take your word as gospel truth even if you don't mean it that way, no matter how sensitive the subject.

[SardaukarElite]

remember the times we made dirty jokes and had fun without eveeything being a agenda and we all got along?

 

No. Well yes, but you're glossing over a few fights and genuinely good discussions, and the odd complete arsehole dropping by.

 

 

I understand the argument that once a work of art/fiction is out in the world, it's up to the public to interpret it as they wish, but equally it's interesting to hear the point of view of its creator. I'd say that it's up to Lukas if he wants to comment or not.

 

I like hearing a creator's perspective but at the same time a work is supposed to stand on its own. There is a time and a place for an author's analysis, and I think  maybe that's not in response to each criticism as they arise.

[WildOrchid]

I don't think writers like explaining their characters in such a way...effectively 'giving the right answer' on how to interpret a character.

Especially since the game is only a few weeks old and this character arc isn't finished b/c DLC.

 

Good point.... maybe we'll get one later on.

 

And yeah, i would have loved a DLC about companions (or tied to story, similar to Citadel dlc) and we get to see more of Sera's story or getting some kind of growth.

[Serza]

remember the times we made dirty jokes and had fun without eveeything being a agenda and we all got along?

 

"Do you still remember the times before release?

 

Serza's Farm remembers."

 

Mostly the fact that I'm a Ghoul AND an Abomination.

 

aka what happens when you make a dirty Deep Roads joke and do not realize it until someone tells you you've made it...

[Sporothrix]

 

 and yes, i've seen some.... posts about Krem which are far more worse than this single one line Sera said.

 

 

Just that there is something worse is not the best justification. I see that you 'liked' this dismissive post which was response to your claim that "Sera is demonized on Tumblr for this lame line":

 

There does seem to be a certain vocal subset of the trans community who are bent on taking offence and making enemies of everyone. I guess they have good reason to be angry with the world, but they often seem to end up pushing away people who are very much on their side, which I find very sad.

 

So it seems you are aware that lots of trans people were deeply offended by it. Are you really going to consider as valid only thoughts of those who share your opinion, while all the others that were affected by it are merely "a vocal subset that are bent on taking offence and making enemies of everyone"?

[Roamingmachine]

I hope you understand and can accept me as I've enjoyed my time here more than you can imagine.

You're one of the good people and that's all that matters with me So....

[syllogi]

 

 

A lot of IF's and headcanons to make that remark not seem transphobic (if that was due to ignorance, the remark itself was still transphobic BTW). 

And it's not merely about faking anything, so I don't see how is it supposed to work. She's pairing that up with having STD, illegitimate children due to fornicating, beating those below you or being a product of inbreeding - and being female to male trans person or crossdresser, summed up with disdain to show how awful Orlesian nobility is.

 

But like I said, I have the problem with writing, not the character. She's no real person, so I doubt such remarks, directed at members of discriminated real life minority, were accidental. What reaction those words will cause was pretty obvious. 

 

 

I definitely have an issue with the line, in that it just wasn't necessary, especially after the unintentional joke at the expense of Serendipity in MotA.  The fact of someone being non-gender conforming is not comedy.

 

That being said, again, Sera is being saddled with the responsibility of being more enlightened, moral, and nice, than she was written to be in general, because she's a lesbian.  I understand that she's not likeable to some people, and yes, giving the ONE lesbian character a more chill personality would have been great, because I do feel like she's not mature enough for a *serious* romance.  She's not at all what I would look for in a f/f romance, personally.  BUT, I do like her, in spite of her flaws, and I don't think I have to ignore her flaws in order to find her entertaining.

 

Personally, I am a semi-closeted bisexual woman, as well as being a light skinned mixed race person, so I get to hear ALL kinds of offensive stuff all the time, from people who are nice otherwise, but will thoughtlessly blurt out crap when they think it doesn't matter because they don't realize I'm part of the group they're offending.  The other day at work, a gay male co-worker pointed at a picture of a woman with short hair, no makeup, and who was wearing a pantsuit, and whispered dramatically to me "IS THAT A LITTLE BOY???"  He doesn't know that I used to identify solely as a lesbian, and that my hair used to be even shorter than this woman's, and how hurtful that comment was.  But I didn't feel like being a crusader that day, or trying to educate a man who should have known better on why that joke was wrong.  

 

Sometimes you have to pick your battles, and that's kind of how I feel about the transphobic comment and Sera.  Whomever wrote and approved it could have and should have been made aware of why it didn't need to exist, but it doesn't invalidate the character completely, or make the people who enjoy her character unaware of why it was wrong.

[WildOrchid]

Just that there is something worse is not the best justification. I see that you 'liked' this dismissive post which was response to your claim that "Sera is demonized on Tumblr for this lame line":

 

There does seem to be a certain vocal subset of the trans community who are bent on taking offence and making enemies of everyone. I guess they have good reason to be angry with the world, but they often seem to end up pushing away people who are very much on their side, which I find very sad.

 

So it seems you are aware that lots of trans people were deeply offended by it. Are you really going to consider as valid only thoughts of those who share your opinion, while all the others that were affected by it are merely "a vocal subset that are bent on taking offence and making enemies of everyone"?

 

And some trans people aren't offended by this single one line. You're implying that all of the trans people are offended. So?

 

Yes i am aware that some are offended. And also aware that some are not.

Demonizing Sera for a line like this one, is too much. Too.much.

[Sporothrix]

They're just trying to make us feel like pedophiles, don't worry about it.

 

 

Don't be so America-centric. In Poland, where I live, age of consent is 15. Sera being 16 years old was supposed to highlight that she and PC don't seem to be on the same, or even similar, level, emotionally, and TBH, intelectually as well. It definitely doesn't look like parnership, so in the end, someone takes advantage of the other side.

[AresKeith]

First transphobic, now underage? Anything else?!

I can't with people. I really can't.

Don't forget insult to lesbians

it's like they're trying to just pick at things just to complain about her

[Artemis Leonhart]

Well after reading the last few pages I guess that there are a lot of people that don't know my history so I probably should step up now. I've been hesitate to because of the way I've been treated here, there is always the fear of being treated different or being rejected. It's not a secret though as I've mentioned it in a post before, I've been legally female for almost seven years.

I was born in a male body but my brain always told me I was female, which made for a rather horrible childhood. I always knew that I had to keep it a secret but I never knew why, not until I told my parents when I transitioned. My parents screwed with my head when I was a child told me I was male and to get those thoughts out of my head but I couldn't remember it until I saw their reactions, they made me feel less than human. They either didn't want a child that was different or they didn't want to see me get hurt. I've lost family and old friends over this, so it has always made me hesitant to say anything because I'm always scared of being hurt again.

I never intentionally meant to mislead anyone but I've blended into society so well for so long that I just wanted to be myself. Blending in has it's own problems but it's so much easier than standing out. So many people like me have been made fun of, hated and much worse. When you blend in and no one knows who you were you find yourself trapped, you have to hide your entire history which was more difficult than I ever imagined it would. I just got tired of hiding and that's why I made this post.

http://forum.bioware...ons/?p=17365090

I just wanted to get that out of the way as sometimes in this thread I feel that I'm still hiding.

Now getting back to Sera I struggle to understand her sometimes and didn't catch the line mentioned until later when people started talking about it. The line doesn't hurt me but there have been many posts on the boards that have. With the Talk about Krem there were posts that hurt me more than I thought possible. I've seen posts that were ignorant to Krem and trans people in general. Things aren't all bad though seeing the Krem appreciation thread has for the most part been a breath of fresh air for me.

I hope you understand and can accept me as I've enjoyed my time here more than you can imagine.

I'm sorry for what you had to go through, being rejected by the very people who, above everyone else, should love you for what you are, is extremely painful.

I think a hug is in order: *hugs*

And I consider you a friend, make of that what you will.

[AresKeith]

I still dont see how that line is transphobic....

Because it's not, she's making observations of people similar to Iron Bull when you to talk to him at the ball

[WildOrchid]

16 years old was supposed to highlight that she and PC don't seem to be on the same, or even similar, level, emotionally, and TBH, intelectually as well. It definitely doesn't look like parnership, so in the end, someone takes advantage of the other side.

 

Immature personality=/=actual age. Adults can be immature and vice versa. It has nothing to do about the age.

 

Sera could very well be 25 even, and act "childish".

[Sporothrix]

And some trans people aren't offended by this single one line. You're implying that all of the trans people are offended. So?

 

Yes i am aware that some are offended. And also aware that some are not.

Demonizing Sera for a line like this one, is too much. Too.much.

 

Did I imply anything like that? One of first things I noticed during my arguments over "lesbian sleeping with a man and enjoying it" overused trope that angers me like nothing else is that among fans defending it were always some lesbian identified women, and they were always used to make a point as if their existence proved that any critique is therefore invalid.

[Roamingmachine]

Just that there is something worse is not the best justification. I see that you 'liked' this dismissive post which was response to your claim that "Sera is demonized on Tumblr for this lame line":
 
There does seem to be a certain vocal subset of the trans community who are bent on taking offence and making enemies of everyone. I guess they have good reason to be angry with the world, but they often seem to end up pushing away people who are very much on their side, which I find very sad.
 
So it seems you are aware that lots of trans people were deeply offended by it. Are you really going to consider as valid only thoughts of those who share your opinion, while all the others that were affected by it are merely "a vocal subset that are bent on taking offence and making enemies of everyone"?

*sigh* This isn't going to make me any friends but what the heck...
Attacking something that people who are not antagonistic to your cause like is counterproductive no matter what you think of the thing. All you are going to accomplish is making enemies you didn't need to make and generally undermine your cause as antagonized people are more likely to just close ranks than listen to anything you have to say and judge anyone who represents what you do the same as you. While this isn't true on this thread, being that we are generally live-and-let-live freewheeling types and distinguish between individuals and groups, it's a good general rule. What Danielle said here and others have said in the Krem thread have done more good for the cause of acceptance for transgender people than any hateful tumblr or forum post against Sera ever will.

[Ero_the_Great]

Heh I just got the special Knight Enchanter talk with Sera where she tells me that some people are already afraid enough of my Inquisitor because she's a mage and doesn't want her to become an even scarier mage. The flirt option then was very sweet.

[raging_monkey]

Immature personality=/=actual age. Adults can be immature and vice versa. It has nothing to do about the age.
 
Sera could very well be 25 even, and act "childish".

im confused is she 16 or 25