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Sera "The Artful Dodger" discussion thread - V2 (now with more V1)


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#4001
TK514

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That it’s one tiny character trait among many, no different than having freckles, a bad haircut, or being impulsive. It’s not.

 

I could not disagree more.  It is exactly one tiny character trait among many, just like having freckles, a bad haircut, or being impulsive.



#4002
Hanako Ikezawa

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So, Sera fans, who should I romance her with? Dwarf, elf, human, or qunari? I'm leaning towards dwarf :D

Male. :P  :crying:



#4003
CuriousArtemis

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Dwarf*

 

* if not restricted ofc

 

*hi5* :D

 

 

Well, I should let you know (if you didn't already) that race gating is a part of the game.  In the new Romance thread, Allan laid out a lot of good reasons as to why.  Just reading that put my mind a little more at ease.  I'd go with an elf, personally. It would also fit your avatar.   :)

 

Yeah I know about the race-gating, but I think it will only be for certain characters like IB or Varric due to cinematic issues. And my avatar is a dude ;)



#4004
.shea.

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So, Sera fans, who should I romance her with? Dwarf, elf, human, or qunari? I'm leaning towards dwarf :D

 

I'm having a hard time deciding as well, leaning towards elf (dalish was my favorite DA:O origin) right now, although both qunari and dwarf are intresting too. Maybe I'll flip a coin, or something.



#4005
Maria Caliban

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You're assuming quite a lot that every lesbian would feel this way.


Are you gay? Are you going to tell me that you're a lesbian and you don't think your sexuality matters or has meaning?
 

Sera is not guaranteed to feel like this, especially since the Dragon Age setting is rather accepting of homosexuality.


Dwarves and elves are both told that they need to produce children to help save their race. Qunari probably don't even acknowledge homosexuality. Human nobles and city elves have arranged marriages. Anders hides the fact that he was in a relationship with a man from a female Hawke. Zevran asks the Warden if it's *all right* to be attracted to men and tells you that he's looked down on for it.

When Sera was a young girl and heard stories about great heroes and deeds, how many of those stories would be about women like her? How many romances would be about a man and woman falling in love? How many marriages would she see that were 'sacred unions blessed by the Marker' that would be men and women but never two women? How often would adults tease her about boys being attracted to her or her being attracted to boys?

I was born in a major city. The first time I had a conversation with another lesbian, I was 17. It was online. The first time I had a face-to-face conversation with one, I was 22.

When was the first time you met someone you know was straight? Mine would be the moment of birth because my mother is straight.

It makes a difference. It's meaningful.
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#4006
Fiery Phoenix

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I would actually be surprised if Sera was romanceable by dwarves at this point, but let's hope I'm wrong.

 

It would be such a cuuuuute little love story though!



#4007
naddaya

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I am right-handed and I am a lesbian. These are both traits. One is more meaningful than the other.

 

Of course. But many things are meaningful. Growing up poor, rich, in a war zone, with a big family, an orphan and so on. These can shape you just as well, if not more. I'm not comparing being a lesbian to having a certain hair color. The environment you live in, the people you surround yourself with, you struggles, all of these build your character. Being stubborn, naive, ruthless or compassionate is merely the product of that. I don't see being a lesbian particularly incident here. Some people might feel differently, but there is no rule. People put emphasis on different things.

 

So... not a lesbian, and you have 'homosexual friends,' because gay women and gay men are interchangeable in a conversation about whether being a gay woman is meaningful.

 

Not a lesbian. I don't see the problem. I find being bi is as defining as my gender, my sexual life depends on it but my personality has little to do with that. I have both male and female gay friends, some had to face discrimination and weird behaviors because of it. Some didn't. But I had friends discriminated because of their religion, their skin color, their family's social status. Hell, I was picked on for being tomboyish and a ginger when I was a kid :lol:

There are too many variables to rate how meaningful a trait is, generally. It's subjective.



#4008
Allan Schumacher

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Okay, what do you all think of a lesbian being written by a guy?

I find I'm doubtful.

 

 

After reading some of your exchange with Luke and a few others, I'll take the approach of... admitting that I don't understand your perspective (and possibly never fully will since I'm not).

 

However, I know I was once someone that tried to be "colour blind" before I realized that it wasn't really appropriate either, so if I may do you mind sharing some?  I can understand the idea that if I were to "just write a character" I'd probably include things heteronormative aspects that I may not be aware of, or just assume "everyone is like this and shares in these experiences" because hey they are my experiences and things are pretty good for me right!?  I don't consider my sexuality to be "a big deal" but the reality is that almost no one else does either because it's the default.

 

 

I know Patrick shared his stories for Samantha, which draft 1 was basically an afterschool special.  So he tried to write "a character first."  I know he's happier with it, but he probably has some of the trappings as well (though I'm making the assumption that "Afterschool special" type wouldn't be appealing to you either)  So yeah, any thoughts?  I won't pressure if you'd rather not but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.


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#4009
renfrees

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I know it’s a difficult thing on the internet, but please try to respond to what I actually said.

Being a lesbian is meaningful. It matters. This is not a radical thought, and voicing it is not demanding that Sera become Ser Sappho Dykesalot.


I bet you consider yourself ‘color blind’ as well.


And you thought wrong.

Though I find it odd that you simultaneously don't think of people in terms of sexual orientation, but think only straight white dudes care about sexual orientation. It seems a bit of a contradiction.

I'm not going to argue with a person, waving a flag on the barricades. It's not rational. If you want to highlight that you're "not like the others" - well, suit yourself. For me, my gay friends are not different from my straight friends.


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#4010
CuriousArtemis

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I'm having a hard time deciding as well, leaning towards elf (dalish was my favorite DA:O origin) right now, although both qunari and dwarf are intresting too. Maybe I'll flip a coin, or something.

 

Well my first two are going to be Dalish (also my favorite origin!) so I'm thinking I need to go a different route for my third playthrough. Personally I love elf x human relationships, but I don't want to play a human... so boring! (Cause I don't think the world will react as much to a human). Next I think I'd want to play a dwarf gal... I liked my Aeducan girl in DAO but I quit halfway through it because I couldn't handle her giant orangutan arms lol


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#4011
cjones91

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So, Sera fans, who should I romance her with? Dwarf, elf, human, or qunari? I'm leaning towards dwarf :D

I'm going with my red headed female elf,Cullen will be disappointed though.



#4012
.shea.

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I liked my Aeducan girl in DAO but I quit halfway through it because I couldn't handle her giant orangutan arms lol

 

I know right? Fortunately I discovered this mod:

 

http://social.biowar...t/2850/#details

 

doesn't help if you're on a console though :(


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#4013
CuriousArtemis

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I know right? Fortunately I discovered this mod:

 

http://social.biowar...t/2850/#details

 

doesn't help if you're on a console though :(

 

Yeah, sadly I play on xbox. I've always played on console since I was a kid, so the thought of playing a game with a keyboard is just too weird for me!



#4014
Ammonite

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I wish i hadn't looked in the suggestions & feedback section cos theres yet another thread mostly complaining about Sera's sexuality :(


Wow, really? Another one :D?
*grabs popcorn*
*goes looking for thread*

#4015
Queen of Evil

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Enough popcorn for two Ammonite??
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#4016
cjones91

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Wow, really? Another one :D?
*grabs popcorn*
*goes looking for thread*

Ugh....I hate those types of threads.



#4017
Hanako Ikezawa

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Enough popcorn for two Ammonite??

I brought enough for everyone.

 

pb-120102-popcorn-6p.jpg


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#4018
JerZey CJ

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So, Sera fans, who should I romance her with? Dwarf, elf, human, or qunari? I'm leaning towards dwarf :D

I, personally, plan on romancing her with a qunari. Because they're awesome.


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#4019
XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX

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Wow, really? Another one :D?
*grabs popcorn*
*goes looking for thread*


Yep, was originally asking about gay male companions but quickly turned into some straight guys being outraged about Sera being denied from them as well as insulting the other female characters looks :rolleyes:



#4020
Allan Schumacher

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For me, my gay friends are not different from my straight friends.

 

See, I think I'm starting to understand some of the issues since I have said stuff like this in the past, and I think we have to be careful.  Just looking at your sentence, there's a paradox.

 

Your gay friends are different from your straight friends.  They're gay and not straight.  Does this have a big influence on their personality and whatnot, I couldn't say.  I'd like to think it's not a big deal, but that's my perspective.  But I think I can better understand now that some can get frustrated when I say to them "oh yeah well you're just like me!"  Because they technically aren't.

 

I also understand that even by writing this there's probably mistakes that I'm making that while supportive of someone like Maria or other lesbians, is still "someone that isn't is talking about what it's like to be."

 

 

I don't get the impression that Maria is trying to say "Sera needs to advertise to the world at all times that she's a lesbian" or anything like that (she's free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Just that there's concerns that some aspects of it that won't work as well for her.


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#4021
renfrees

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See, I think I'm starting to understand some of the issues since I have said stuff like this in the past, and I think we have to be careful.  Just looking at your sentence, there's a paradox.

 

Your gay friends are different from your straight friends.  They're gay and not straight.  Does this have a big influence on their personality and whatnot, I couldn't say.  I'd like to think it's not a big deal, but that's my perspective.  But I think I can better understand now that some can get frustrated when I say to them "oh yeah well you're just like me!"  Because they technically aren't.

 

I also understand that even by writing this there's probably mistakes that I'm making that while supportive of someone like Maria or other lesbians, is still "someone that isn't is talking about what it's like to be."

 

 

I don't get the impression that Maria is trying to say "Sera needs to advertise to the world at all times that she's a lesbian" or anything like that (she's free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Just that there's concerns that some aspects of it that won't work as well for her.

Technically - yes. As far, as my interaction with them goes - not really. If I have a fun time with them, and can count on them in the hour of need, I couldn't care less whom they bed. Nor do they, in my case.



#4022
Lady Noelle

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I understand how some people are upset with not being able to romance Sera, honestly I do. Rejection is never an easy thing but we have to try and look at it in a brighter light. The writers made her this way and we just have to trust them and accept it. I for one am very proud of Bioware for finally making a stand and saying, "You know what? Let's make her a homosexual woman, no matter what the outcome may be." Not a lot of companies can do that, so I thank them for making this happen. Again I understand people's sadness! But sense there is nothing we can do I just think it's best for people to accept it and talk about how much of an amazing companion she will be? I don't want this coming off as rude so sorry if it sounds like it!!


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#4023
TK514

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See, I think I'm starting to understand some of the issues since I have said stuff like this in the past, and I think we have to be careful.  Just looking at your sentence, there's a paradox.

 

Your gay friends are different from your straight friends.  They're gay and not straight.  Does this have a big influence on their personality and whatnot, I couldn't say.  I'd like to think it's not a big deal, but that's my perspective.  But I think I can better understand now that some can get frustrated when I say to them "oh yeah well you're just like me!"  Because they technically aren't.

 

I also understand that even by writing this there's probably mistakes that I'm making that while supportive of someone like Maria or other lesbians, is still "someone that isn't is talking about what it's like to be."

 

 

I don't get the impression that Maria is trying to say "Sera needs to advertise to the world at all times that she's a lesbian" or anything like that (she's free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Just that there's concerns that some aspects of it that won't work as well for her.

The very first words, "For me", remove any paradox.  The statement isn't that there's no difference, only that for the purposes of the quoted individual, such differences don't matter.

 

Obviously there's a difference between a gay person and a straight person.  But is it really any greater than any other difference between two different people?  Is it really any different than tall vs short?  Left handed vs Right?  Bald vs Blonde?  Is sexuality so great a difference that it needs to be called out, or remarked upon?  Do we have to start introducing people as 'the lesbian' or 'the heterosexual'?  I don't believe so.

 

I have friends of all genders, sexuality, and ethnicity.  Exactly 0% of the time do I define them by any of those traits.  I do not think of them, nor do I identify them as  those groupings.  I do not have gay friends, straight friends, native friends, hispanic friends or white friends.

 

I just have friends.


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#4024
Knight of Dane

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So, Sera fans, who should I romance her with? Dwarf, elf, human, or qunari? I'm leaning towards dwarf :D

I was always going with a blonde elf mage myself, even if I couldn't have romanced Sera. Cullen was my second pick then.

 

Now that I'm almost sure that I can I'll just stick to that plan and save Cullen for another playthrough.


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#4025
DebatableBubble

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Disappointed but I guess I have something to look forward to on a subsequent playthrough. And there's always fanfiction if anyone ever writes a good one.