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[Darth Krytie]

If a complete stranger walked past you by yourself on the street, with no interaction beyond that casual passage, would they think to themselves, "Oh, look at that gay woman"?  Is ANYONE going to know you're gay unless you you demonstrate it via word or action?  Is anyone even going to care?  Especially if we transfer that exact situation to Thedas.

 

1. Plenty of people make assumptions about other people's sexuality based on their appearance alone. If you don't agree, I'll direct you to the now closed romance discussion thread.

 

2. Sera isn't a stranger that we pass on the street. She's a character we're going to learn and know about quite intimately. There are plenty of hints and outright things that point to the fact that being a lesbian (or any other sexuality aside from heterosexual) isn't a complete non-issue. As Sera is a part of a group that promote heterosexual marriage despite sexuality, it can be a big issue. It can have a huge affect on her life.

 

So, yes, it is important to make sure a person writing this experience make sure that it rings true to people who have lived this. It is important for them to get a perspective outside of their own to make sure they're not inadvertently playing into stereotypes or the like.

 

Maria does have cause to have concern. I'm not saying Sera's writer is going to fail. There are men who I find write women wonderfully. There are men who I find write lesbian women well. But, there are men that do not and have not written them well.

 

My sexuality might not be the dominating aspect of my personality but it certainly has had an impact on it. Definitely in what I find funny, what I feel comfortable with, how I behave around others, how I react to others, how others react to me, and what does and does not matter to me. To say it's a non-factor usually (but not always) means you've never encountered significant difficulties because of it. 

[tmp7704]

When Sera was a young girl and heard stories about great heroes and deeds, how many of those stories would be about women like her? How many romances would be about a man and woman falling in love? How many marriages would she see that were 'sacred unions blessed by the Marker' that would be men and women but never two women? How often would adults tease her about boys being attracted to her or her being attracted to boys?

We don't actually know answers to these questions, or do we? It's not out of question the answers could be "half the time" re: the stories and "never" regarding getting teased. Just like they could be anything else, ofc.

It's been a long while since I played DA:O so i may be remembering it wrong, but --while it's a popular BSN subject-- my city elf was never told the fate of elf species rested on her womb. Does it happen if you oppose the arranged marriage? Is it ruled out that arranged marriages could be between two homosexual elves, if they so wished? When it came to stories about great heroes and deeds the focus iirc was on there being no hero stories that involved the elves whatsoever, regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation.

And do you know what the funny thing is? No one would dismiss her being an elf. No one is going to say 'Oh, I'm sure being an elf has no impact on her and her life.' Her FANTASY RACE will be treated as more meaningful and get more acknowledgment than her sexuality.

Personally i find it believable given the settings -- as, up to now, the games portrayed being an elf as a much bigger deal for Thedas society at large, than being gay. Gay people are not rounded up in Alienages or shot on sight if they choose nomadic life style. They're also not regular slave material, and on record of being involved in bloody, multi-nation war with straight people over a place to live.

If it was the opposite? Then yes, i'd expect her sexual orientation to receive way more focus than her being an elf. Or heck, I'd expect it to be just as a big deal if Thedas attitudes regarding homosexuality were more resembling the sorry state we see in our own world. But as i understand it, it's kind of a big point in DA world building that their attitudes in this regard aren't like ours.

[renfrees]

And do you know what the funny thing is? No one would dismiss her being an elf. No one is going to say 'Oh, I'm sure being an elf has no impact on her and her life.' Her FANTASY RACE will be treated as more meaningful and get more acknowledgment than her sexuality.

Because in the world of Thedas it is more meaningful, than being a lesbian? And much more so. She is a FANTASY character, living in a FANTASY world, where race matters A LOT. Define lives even.

[Vit246]

My two cents.
I'm kinda sad over Sera. Because this means I still don't get to have my heterosexual elf-on-elf romance. Meaning, I don't get to have a Male Dalish Inquisitor and get a nice Dalish girl.  

Nowadays its all about interspecies and gays and lesbians and bisexuals. 

[Darth Krytie]

It's also not an on-off switch, either. It's not like there's two settings: it matters the absolute mostestest of everything that's ever mattered and it matters not at all.

 

Sera's sexuality matters. It should be treated accordingly. It's okay to discuss it. It's okay to speculate. If we don't give people crap for wondering about the specific backgrounds for the Inquisitor or whether we'll be able to murder knife people. it's okay to wonder if Sera's sexuality will be given due consideration in the story line.

[Maria Caliban]

Because in the world of Thedas it is more meaningful, than being a lesbian?

Are you willing to agree that being a gay woman is meaningful? That it's something that matters and makes a difference?

That being an elf is important is fine. That being an elf is important while being gay is irreverent is not fine.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So, how about discussing something about Sera that doesn't involve her preferring innies to outies? 

[renfrees]

Are you willing to agree that being a gay woman is meaningful? That it's something that matters and makes a difference?

That being an elf is important is fine. That being an elf is important while being gay is irreverent is not fine.

Meaningful - likely. How much meaningful to Sera - we don't know, but I'm starting to suspect, that less than to you.

[cjones91]

So, how about discussing something about Sera that doesn't involve her preferring innies to outies? 

I'm game,let's talk about possible convos she will have with the other companions.

[fiveforchaos]

When Sera was a young girl and heard stories about great heroes and deeds, how many of those stories would be about women like her? How many romances would be about a man and woman falling in love? How many marriages would she see that were 'sacred unions blessed by the Marker' that would be men and women but never two women? How often would adults tease her about boys being attracted to her or her being attracted to boys?

 

Not contesting your entire argument here, because you do make some valid points, just wanted to point something out for the sake of accuracy. I think the two heroes of legend we hear about most often in the games are actually Aveline and Andraste, both of whom were women. Now if, when you say "women like her" you mean "women who are lesbians" or "women who are elves" then I can't say either way. I'd say, considering the culture of Thedas, she's almost definitely been denied exposure to many good elven heroes, but we don't know much about the romance stories in Thedas (except for Varric's novels) so we can't be sure if there's been any good lesbian romances or not.  

[tmp7704]

Are you willing to agree that being a gay woman is meaningful? That it's something that matters and makes a difference?

I believe it's something that shapes how she's going to perceive/interact with the world, and so yes, it does make a difference.

My questioning comes mostly from not knowing how you personally envision that difference to manifest itself. As in, i have difficulty with coming up with a Sera that'd make you actually go at the writer, "no, you got it wrong because you're not a lesbian yourself" vs taking her as a plausible individual. I guess it comes down to "I wish I'd know what your 'ideal Sera' is like"?

[Neon Rising Winter]

So, how about discussing something about Sera that doesn't involve her preferring innies to outies? 

Right, there is something that's been bugging me about her clothing. So she's an archer, they've given her an armguard to protect her from bowstring injuries, but on that same arm someone has also added a sleeve cuff that sticks right out so the bowstring can catch on it.

 

Someone come up with a plausible reason so it irritates me less.

[Allan Schumacher]

I think it's a matter of context. In the context of the larger story being told, her being an elf is a significant factor. Racial tensions with the elves has resonance with the main plot, but issues regarding sexuality don't. Given that, I don't find it too worrying that race is focused on and sexuality treated as a much lesser issue. You focus on the charcateristics that are important to the wider story. If the plot involved - taking a clumsy modern example - same sex marriage, then I'd see it being more important to address.

 

It's important to remember it's a reservation on her part.  Within the context of experiencing the game world at release, it might work well for her.  It might not work well.  I think it's important to note that Maria did still say she appreciated the effort.  She's just concerned that it might not come across as well as it could be in part because of experience.

 

The thread started to derail a bit when posts came across as people telling her that it's not a big deal and that there's no difference between a gay person and a straight person.

 

But I'll say I consider Maria a friend.  I have no problems acknowledging that Maria is a lesbian, and as a lesbian she's not the same as some of my other friends.  I like to think I don't treat her differently as a result of that (and that if I did she'd call me out on it), but just that that trait has a non-trivial influence on her life compared to how much my sexuality affects mine and many of my other friends, and that that perspective is unique from mine.

[fiveforchaos]

I'm game,let's talk about possible convos she will have with the other companions.

 

 

 

I think she and Varric are gonna get along, I really wanna know what nickname he'll have for her. It's gotta be something cool, something that references either speed or her hotheadedness, but it's also gotta be a little bit adorable. I have a suspicion that Varric will develop the same sort of "big brother soft spot" for her as he did Merrill. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Yes. Good thing you aren't a lefty devil spawn.

 

I would have gone 'at least you aren't sinister', but same impact.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

 

 

 

I think she and Varric are gonna get along, I really wanna know what nickname he'll have for her. It's gotta be something cool, something that references either speed or her hotheadedness, but it's also gotta be a little bit adorable. I have a suspicion that Varric will develop the same sort of "big brother soft spot" for her as he did Merrill. 

 

I always picture "Kid" or "Kiddo" for Sera.  I pictured him the same way you did towards her.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I always picture "Kid" or "Kiddo" for Sera.  I pictured him the same way you did towards her.  

Red is also available. Remember Aveline turned it down. 

[Alan Rickman]

So, how about discussing something about Sera that doesn't involve her preferring innies to outies? 

 

Can we get dev confirmation on her belly button preferences?

[Maria Caliban]

Meaningful - likely. How much meaningful to Sera - we don't know, but I'm starting to suspect, that less than to you.

I should hope so.

So, how about discussing something about Sera that doesn't involve her preferring innies to outies?

I wish the demo had more of her voice. I still haven't found a version of it without Mike talking over the characters. (Not that Mike doesn't also have a lovely voice.)

[Grieving Natashina]

Red is also available. Remember Aveline turned it down. 

Nah, she doesn't have red hair.  I could see it based on her armor, but even Varric thought that "Red" wasn't very good.  He just couldn't think of anything better for Aveline.

 

For some reason, I could picture him calling her "Sunflower," based on that lovely blonde hair of hers.  

[TK514]

1. Plenty of people make assumptions about other people's sexuality based on their appearance alone. If you don't agree, I'll direct you to the now closed romance discussion thread.

 

2. Sera isn't a stranger that we pass on the street. She's a character we're going to learn and know about quite intimately. There are plenty of hints and outright things that point to the fact that being a lesbian (or any other sexuality aside from heterosexual) isn't a complete non-issue. As Sera is a part of a group that promote heterosexual marriage despite sexuality, it can be a big issue. It can have a huge affect on her life.

 

So, yes, it is important to make sure a person writing this experience make sure that it rings true to people who have lived this. It is important for them to get a perspective outside of their own to make sure they're not inadvertently playing into stereotypes or the like.

 

Maria does have cause to have concern. I'm not saying Sera's writer is going to fail. There are men who I find write women wonderfully. There are men who I find write lesbian women well. But, there are men that do not and have not written them well.

 

My sexuality might not be the dominating aspect of my personality but it certainly has had an impact on it. Definitely in what I find funny, what I feel comfortable with, how I behave around others, how I react to others, how others react to me, and what does and does not matter to me. To say it's a non-factor usually (but not always) means you've never encountered significant difficulties because of it. 

 

I get what you're saying, and part of that stems from my example being unclear.  I don't really care what people guess about someone else when walking down the street.  That really is irrelevant.  I care about what someone can KNOW, and there's a significant difference in what people can unmistakably know about someone else in a chance passing when discussing internal and external traits.  Unless you explicitly advertise it, no one is going to know your sexual preferences by passing you on the street.  Everyone will know Sera's an elf unless she takes direct action to hide it.  If Maria had said been arguing race vs species, I could have seen the point.

 

As to your point about authors however, I'm not seeing the reasoning of being so specific, unless your intent is to whine that your special snowflake can't be understood by someone who isn't just like you.  There are good authors and there are bad authors.  Breaking it down into 'You aren't a lesbian so I don't trust you to write lesbian women' is just looking for something to find fault with.  Either you trust the writing team to be up to the tasks they take on, or you don't, in which case you shouldn't trust ANY of the writing in the game.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Nah, she doesn't have red hair.  I could see it based on her armor, but even Varric thought that "Red" wasn't very good.  He just couldn't think of anything better for Aveline.

 

For some reason, I could picture him calling her "Sunflower," based on that lovely blonde hair of hers.  

I was actually thinking Red because of her ties to the Friends of Red Jenny, not her outfit.

[fiveforchaos]

I always picture "Kid" or "Kiddo" for Sera.  I pictured him the same way you did towards her.  

Unless Varric's a romance option I don't want that. I dunno why but I find it adorable when older or more experience characters refer to their younger comrades as "Kid" or "Kiddo". I'd have to jump him right then and there if he referred to Sera that way.

 

That said Kiddo does kinda suit the criteria I laid out, it's cute, but it also suggests a bit of spunkiness on her part.  

[Neon Rising Winter]

It's important to remember it's a reservation on her part.  Within the context of experiencing the game world at release, it might work well for her.  It might not work well.  I think it's important to note that Maria did still say she appreciated the effort.  She's just concerned that it might not come across as well as it could be in part because of experience.

 

The thread started to derail a bit when posts came across as people telling her that it's not a big deal and that there's no difference between a gay person and a straight person.

 

But I'll say I consider Maria a friend.  I have no problems acknowledging that Maria is a lesbian, and as a lesbian she's not the same as some of my other friends.  I like to think I don't treat her differently as a result of that (and that if I did she'd call me out on it), but just that that trait has a non-trivial influence on her life compared to how much my sexuality affects mine and many of my other friends, and that that perspective is unique to mine.

Oh I'm not in any way arguing that her opinion's wrong, that she shouldn't state it or she should change her mind. As I said earlier, I think it has made a lot of difference to my life too! I'm explaining why, for me, in this specific work of fiction, it's not an issue.

[Dean_the_Young]

Question for anyone and everyone, out of my own curiosity.

 

How meaningful do you think it is for someone to be gay in the DA universe?

 

Not in terms of you, the player of the real world, appreciating it. Rather, how it impacts the average life and social standing and pressures of development for someone growing up in Thedas.