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[New Kid]

That does sound like me when i played Dark Souls...

Words can not describe the relief I felt when I finished that game haha.

[New Kid]

About mages and Dalish clan , it seems there's some form of "retcon" ,before we were told how Dalish valued their mages because they had the "gift" , we knew they had less and less mages and some were given to other clans.

But Merrill never said anything about mages being seen as a problem and her clan took Feynriel.

 

In DAI , it seems it's now part of the lore , Dalish kick their mages out in some cases.

Vivienne tell you it's the case (if a human circle mage knows about this , it must be a common practise) and you met two Dalish female mage who have been through this , Minaeve the researcher in Haven and one in the Bull Chargers.

Could that not just be a case of 'different clan, different rules'?

[Xilizhra]

About mages and Dalish clan , it seems there's some form of "retcon" ,before we were told how Dalish valued their mages because they had the "gift" , we knew they had less and less mages and some were given to other clans.

But Merrill never said anything about mages being seen as a problem and her clan took Feynriel.

 

In DAI , it seems it's now part of the lore , Dalish kick their mages out in some cases.

Vivienne tell you it's the case (if a human circle mage knows about this , it must be a common practise) and you met two Dalish female mage who have been through this , Minaeve the researcher in Haven and one in the Bull Chargers.

Vivienne probably heard about it from Minaeve, so that doesn't prove anything.

[LightningPoodle]

@Roamingmachine: while I agree that we don't have proof of more then one clan doing it, the way Minaeve explained it lead me to think it's more common in the clans. I hope To be wrong though.

 

It probably is a common practice. Making sure your clan doesn't get overrun by Abominations is probably a good incentive. However, it is wrong to assume it happens within every clan. We know Dalish clans have different views, but most of them are trying to reclaim their lost civilisation. Magic is going to fall into that whole "Old Kingdom" ideal so clans will keep magic around, no matter how many mages there are within the clan. Sometimes the risk are worth it.

[Roamingmachine]

@Roamingmachine: while I agree that we don't have proof of more then one clan doing it, the way Minaeve explained it lead me to think it's more common in the clans. I hope To be wrong though.

Minaeve had experience of one clan that left her bitter. The clans are as different from eachother as the andrastian nations are of eachother. I do not believe it a very common practise as mages ARE rare and essential for the survival of a clan, even if they themselves do pose a danger. Simply put, it's a waste.

[Reznore57]

Vivienne probably heard about it from Minaeve, so that doesn't prove anything.

 

I really really doubt that ,it's simply a retcon.

Vivienne , Iron Bull , Minaeve , and the Dalish in Bull Chargers all talk about it like it's a common practise.

[jlb524]

About mages and Dalish clan , it seems there's some form of "retcon" ,before we were told how Dalish valued their mages because they had the "gift" , we knew they had less and less mages and some were given to other clans.
But Merrill never said anything about mages being seen as a problem and her clan took Feynriel.

In DAI , it seems it's now part of the lore , Dalish kick their mages out in some cases.
Vivienne tell you it's the case (if a human circle mage knows about this , it must be a common practise) and you met two Dalish female mage who have been through this , Minaeve the researcher in Haven and one in the Bull Chargers.

It does seem like a retcon to me.

The Dalish never had issues with mages/magic in their societies and now all of a sudden it's a huge deal?

Before, I got the impression they wished more among them had the gift of magic which is why the mage exchange between clans existed.

[Xilizhra]

I really really doubt that ,it's simply a retcon.

Vivienne , Iron Bull , Minaeve , and the Dalish in Bull Chargers all talk about it like it's a common practise.

Vivienne's manipulative, Minaeve is bitter, and we don't know enough about the Charger thing to discern anything. If it's a retcon, ask Bioware to say so.

[LightningPoodle]

[Reznore57]

Vivienne's manipulative, Minaeve is bitter, and we don't know enough about the Charger thing to discern anything. If it's a retcon, ask Bioware to say so.

 

Well I don't need to ask Bioware , they bothered to have 4 characters saying the same thing , so for me they got the message across.

They  don't want to make magic and mage problem something simple , I think.

So it can't be simple even among the Dalish.

[Roamingmachine]

I really really doubt that ,it's simply a retcon.
Vivienne , Iron Bull , Minaeve , and the Dalish in Bull Chargers all talk about it like it's a common practise.

Like Xil said. Viv and Minaeve are tainted sources. Iron Bulls only source seem to be the Dalish mage in the company who, like Minaeve is a tainted source. As far as we know, Dalish and Minaeve could be from the same clan even.

[Sporothrix]

I’ll have to disagree with you on the reading. Nor have I seen any evidence to the contrary in the interactions in any three games. Have you?

I appreciate it if you want it to be more like the world we live in where we’re all subjected to the traumas of discrimination. It is more relatable that way. But, to me, it seems that that’s obviously not the case, and the characters need to be evaluated as products of a society where orientation doesn’t cause more contention than handedness.

Maybe I'll cite the official informations:

 

The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter, it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles, but actively encouraged with favored slaves. Nowhere is it forbidden, and sex of any kind is only considered worthy of judgement when taken to awful excess or performed in the public eye.

-From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar by Brother Genitivi

 

 

Since 1st game which took place in Ferelden, in which society is supposed to force gay people to live in closet because it's apparently considered to be something shameful according to informations cited above, no one in team expressed any problems with the PC having same-sex romance, they barely noticed it (is this why lesbian romance with Leliana didn't even have party banter over it as the only one?).

 

But that isn't a proof that they are product of society where orientation doesn't cause more contention than handedness (that would contradict with official informations), but only that you just happen to surround yourself accidentally by very open minded companions. Which simply means that probably the devs were afraid to touch that subject so they chose "I don't even see race" route, which has been thankfully mostly abandoned for Dorian, but is still apparent in all its glory in Sera's (and Josephine's) character arc.

 

 

And speaking of handedness:

In America until corporal punishment was outlawed in schools it was not uncommon for students to be physically punished for writing with their left hands: "I was educated in the USA in Catholic school in the 60s. My left hand was beaten until it was swollen, so I would use my right right [sic] hand" ... "I had a teacher who would smack my left hand with a yardstick every time she caught me writing with my left hand" ... "My fourth grade teacher [...] would force me to use my right hand to perform all of my school work. If she caught me using my left hand, I was hit in the head with a dictionary. It turned out that she believed left handers were connected with Satan."

 

http://en.wikipedia....e_of_right_hand

[Fiery Phoenix]

lots of profanity and tears helps

Not unlike TOR PVP   

[Serza]

How's that Nightmare going for you? Have you woken up yet?

 

Waking up? I'm enjoying being scared, for once!

 

I had to take a break from nightmare, one word: duchess...

 

So good of you to attend her soiree...

 

Also i cannot, for the love of Zeus, play on nightmare. HOW DO YOU DO IT.

 

You need to realize that my balls are made of pure Silverite.

 

By persevering through pain and suffering. Hurts like hell; like running through a thorn bush butt naked.

 

Sounds about right. Once again: Balls of pure Silverite!

 

I got 48/50 and those two are taunting me. You get both for beating the game on nightmare, right? Gosh, I'd dread doing two play throughs just for those...

 

Ehehehe! I shall succeed! And get Belle of the Ball/On Burning Wings on Nightmare. Well, unless the conditions for On Burning Wings feel completely out of character for Lyna.

I don't have Dragons' Bane, because it bugged out. Arianne killed all ten of them magnificent beasts.

 

Also anyone realized that the tarot "Nightmare" card had Duncan on it? Rude Bioware, rude.... D:

 

Wait, really? Do show!

[Ianamus]

*cracks knuckles* Was kinda hoping you'd step up.

One clan kicked out extra mages. Not all and no evidence or mention of 'most'. Misinformation.

For vallaslin, check out my answer above. Misinformation.

Partial credit for the destruction of the ancient culture. But it was Tevinter in the end who delivered the deathblow to a weakened and scattered empire. And why wouldn't the ancient, much much more advance people, view the Dalish as little more than children? Compared to Arlathan era, Thedas is in a stone age as are the people in it.

 

Bioware are clearly trying to get across that the Dalish often kick out mages. The Inquisitor can claim their clan is different, but Bioware wouldn't have included so many instances of characters saying it if they didn't want to get that message across to the player. 

 

I don't get what your saying about the vallaslin. Multiple characters say it, and you are claiming it is false information?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Ehehehe! I shall succeed! And get Belle of the Ball/On Burning Wings on Nightmare. Well, unless the conditions for On Burning Wings feel completely out of character for Lyna.

I don't have Dragons' Bane, because it bugged out. Arianne killed all ten of them magnificent beasts.

Dragons' Bane can be done by reloading a previous save and killing whichever dragon again.

 

The reason it bugs out is because one of the dragons (thought to be the Crestwood one) doesn't seem to count into the achievement, so you will have to kill any other dragon twice to make up for the loss.

 

The achievement can actually be grinded out on the same dragon by reloading and killing her 10 times.

[LightningPoodle]

Bioware are clearly trying to get across that the Dalish often kick out mages. The Inquisitor can claim their clan is different, but Bioware wouldn't have included so many instances of characters saying it if they didn't want to get that message across to the player. 

 

I don't get what your saying about the vallaslin. Multiple characters say it, and you are claiming it is false information?

 

You realise writing a game does require you to leave stuff ambiguous in order to create interest and tension. We think that many mages are sent away. This isn't the case, it just hasn't been revealed yet. It will likely have some interesting reveal such as a clan getting slaughtered by a ton of abominations in a future game. Or perhaps, the Elves do claim a land they can truly call home and that's only by the assistance of a clan full of mages. BioWare are leaving possibilities, not cold hard facts.

[Xilizhra]

Maybe I'll cite the official informations:

 

The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter, it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles, but actively encouraged with favored slaves. Nowhere is it forbidden, and sex of any kind is only considered worthy of judgement when taken to awful excess or performed in the public eye.

-From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar by Brother Genitivi

 

 

Since 1st game which took place in Ferelden, in which society is supposed to force gay people to live in closet because it's apparently considered to be something shameful according to informations cited above, no one in team expressed any problems with the PC having same-sex romance, they barely noticed it (is this why lesbian romance with Leliana didn't even have party banter over it as the only one?).

 

But that isn't a proof that they are product of society where orientation doesn't cause more contention than handedness (that would contradict with official informations), but only that you just happen to surround yourself accidentally by very open minded companions. Which simply means that probably the devs were afraid to touch that subject so they chose "I don't even see race" route, which has been thankfully mostly abandoned for Dorian, but is still apparent in all its glory in Sera's (and Josephine's) character arc.

Well, Sera doesn't care about what society wants and Antiva has no problem with queer relationships. I understand your concern, certainly, and agree in general, but it's not wholly unfitting.

[WildOrchid]

Wait, really? Do show!

 

 

last one

 

Even the clothes are the same...

[Roamingmachine]

Bioware are clearly trying to get across that the Dalish often kick out mages. The Inquisitor can claim their clan is different, but Bioware wouldn't have included so many instances of characters saying it if they didn't want to get that message across to the player. 
 
I don't get what your saying about the vallaslin. Multiple characters say it, and you are claiming it is false information?

I address those 'multiple persons' a few posts up. Basically, all first hand info is coming from two embittered mages.

And the vallaslin....I didn't say false information. I said misinformation: false or inaccurate information that is spread unintentionally. Basically, the slavery that people think isn't the same slavery the one source who isn't a clear enemy talks about. And your multiple is two people, both who are out to get reaction from the player. Try reading the spoiler in the last page.

[LightningPoodle]

 

 

last one

 

Even the clothes are the same...

 

Interesting. So I am clearly better than Duncan. Atleast I can survive a decapitation and 7 pointy objects through my flesh.

[AresKeith]

Bioware are clearly trying to get across that the Dalish often kick out mages. The Inquisitor can claim their clan is different, but Bioware wouldn't have included so many instances of characters saying it if they didn't want to get that message across to the player. 

 

I don't get what your saying about the vallaslin. Multiple characters say it, and you are claiming it is false information?

 

It could be that some Dalish Clans does do things differently than others 

[Serza]

 

last one

 

Even the clothes are the same...

 

Oh... Does that... say how he was betrayed at Ostagar by the Teyrn?

 

I mean, Loghain isn't obviously a black and white character, and his decision at Ostagar was an unfortunate shade of grey, but it still remains on the verge of betrayal - why didn't he signal somehow that the forces comitted aren't being reinforced and should pull out?

 

Also, anyone else think one of the exploration pieces in the OST is VERY similar to Dead Space 3's ZeeGee segment?

[LightningPoodle]

I address those 'multiple persons' a few posts up. Basically, all first hand info is coming from two embittered mages.

And the vallaslin....I didn't say false information. I said misinformation: false or inaccurate information that is spread unintentionally. Basically, the slavery that people think isn't the same slavery the one source who isn't a clear enemy talks about. And your multiple is two people, both who are out to get reaction from the player. Try reading the spoiler in the last page.

 

Well, you could compare the Elven priests to Christian priests.

[LightningPoodle]

Oh... Does that... say how he was betrayed at Ostagar by the Teyrn?

 

I mean, Loghain isn't obviously a black and white character, and his decision at Ostagar was an unfortunate shade of grey, but it still remains on the verge of betrayal - why didn't he signal somehow that the forces comitted aren't being reinforced and should pull out?

 

Because he believed he could rule Fereldan better than the man who would ask for aid from Orlais.